Monk...Worth it?

[Failedlegend]

OK so here V3.0 (or w/e)

Dwarf Pure Monk

Str 14
Dex 16
Con 16
Int 8
Wis 16
Cha 6

Uses Handwraps/Unarmed with TWF following the Light Path

Skills: Balance, Concentration, Jump (One point in Tumble taken away from Jump at lvl one)

Possible Feats (need help here):
TWF (Line)
Weapon Finesse
Toughness
Deflect Arrows
Diehard
Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Discipline
Power Attack
Power Critical
Stunning Fist

Enhancements is pretty much figure out as I go since its so easy and relatively cheap to redo although most if not all most race/class stat boosts will be taken. Not really sure what I should boost at Lvl ups (probably at least dex +1 for GTWF In the end (or throughout) I hope to have the best possible DPS without sacrificing surviveability (Especially after my DPS rogue disappointed me...stupid everything immune to SA).

[Korvek]

Last night's pick-up group included such fun as:

Rogue: Trap!
Ranger: What? <click>
Blade-Trap: <wooosh>
Ranger: *dies*
Rogue: *dies*
Fighter: *dies*
Cleric: *dies*
Wizard: *dies*

In most groups, it will be closer to:

Ranger: *saves*
Rogue: *saves* (They have higher trap saves than Monks, after all)
Fighter: *times trap and avoids it*
Cleric: *times trap and avoids it*
Wizard: *times trap and avoids it*
Monk: *saves*

Monks are great, but picking a trap as an indicator of survivability is a poor choice.

I'm new to monk (my monk is only level 5 ), but from what I know it seems best to stay. Level 20 monk gives DR 10/epic, plus the capstone gives +10 concentration AND Ki regeneration +1 (passively). Plus you're a lawful outsider at that point.


So situation is this:

Shamans casting Hold Person on everyone.
Cleric gets held -> dies
Fighter gets held -> dies
Rogue gets held -> dies
Ranger gets held -> dies
Monk is immune -> kick's ass


Then resses the cleric without even having to meditate.

Again, people seem to overplay certain features. For one, finding an enemy that casts hold person instead of hold monster at level 20 will probably be difficult to say the least. Second, if there's any real risk of being held, the cleric or ranger would just cast FoM on everyone, rendering them immune anyway. Third, even without FoM, it would be extremely difficult for the Cleric and Rogue (Probably the other two as well) to fail their saves.

Again, monks are an extremely survivable class, but many of the free benefits they receive are superfluous in this game.

Monks gain the benefit of both decent DPS, decent AC, and high saves without too much effort, and deal high relative DPS against enemies as fortification increases.

[Latharna]

Monks are great, but picking a trap as an indicator of survivability is a poor choice.

Ooh, who peed in your coffee?

We like monks for our own reasons. If they're not the same as yours, too bad.

We all have funny anecdotes about stuff we've seen. I don't give a flying f*ck if you don't like it. The monk lived, everyone else died.

How exactly can you "time" a trap you didn't even know was there?

Not everyone has the time to run the same dungeon over and over and over to memorize trap locations and hidden areas.

I doubt if any of us will be impressed when you reply that you can memorize a dungeon on the first trip.

We play monks because they're fun. You sound like the kind of player that needs a graphing calculator to decide on what class or weapon to use.

Don't be shy, we know you've graphed out the dps ratios on Mathematica.

[Morningfrost]

Possible Feats (need help here):
TWF (Line)
Weapon Finesse
Toughness
Deflect Arrows
Diehard
Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Discipline
Power Attack
Power Critical
Stunning Fist

Deflect arrows IMHO works poorly as it. Maybe a dragonmark or a skill-raising feature can be better. Also I hear Power Critical (+4 on confirmation roll) is quite useless, unless I'm confusing it.

[Hendrik]

Deflect arrows IMHO works poorly as it. Maybe a dragonmark or a skill-raising feature can be better. Also I hear Power Critical (+4 on confirmation roll) is quite useless, unless I'm confusing it.

For lack of a better choice, Deflect Arrows can be of use at lower to mid-levels. Later on in-game, debatable.

Maybe some Skill Focus:"X" to replace Feats at other levels should be considered.

Concentration is a viable choice for a Focus Feat.

I took and have kept Power Crit myself. Really didnt find anything else to take to fit my build/character. Not disappointed with my choice....

[Morningfrost]

I took and have kept Power Crit myself. Really didnt find anything else to take to fit my build/character. Not disappointed with my choice....

I have Dragonmarks of passage (least and lesser) that I find useful, especially soloing. I have finally managed to get TWF at level 9. I won't probably take the teleport dragonmark, but improved criticals with bludgeoning or slashing (weather I find better handwraps or kamas first) will be a viable choice. I'm also considering to roll a staff-based monk with THF to see how it comes out.

[Letrii]

I have Dragonmarks of passage (least and lesser) that I find useful, especially soloing. I have finally managed to get TWF at level 9. I won't probably take the teleport dragonmark, but improved criticals with bludgeoning or slashing (weather I find better handwraps or kamas first) will be a viable choice. I'm also considering to roll a staff-based monk with THF to see how it comes out.

At level 9 your fists do more damage than a kama and add full Str bonus to offhand attacks, unlike kama that only adds half. The only reasons to use kamas are to beat DR and for extra bonuses or bonuses not available on handwraps.

[Morningfrost]

At level 9 your fists do more damage than a kama and add full Str bonus to offhand attacks, unlike kama that only adds half. The only reasons to use kamas are to beat DR and for extra bonuses or bonuses not available on handwraps.

Glad you pointed it out. Thanks.

[Shaamis]

Shaamis, my 20 monk is standing stat-wise at:

While in ultimate wind stance:

S: 26
D: 26
C: 23
I: 8
W: 28
Ch: 6

I stroll around with a 46-48 AC give or take...

I do plan on reincarnating (as soon as I get my +3 dex tome) and my new stats will start out as:

With adjustment for dwarf already figured in:

S:18
D:15
C: 14
I: 8
W12:
Ch:6

=34 points.

with tomes I have and dex +3 tome I plan on having, i'll be able to qualify for lvl 4 ultimate wind stance (18 minimum dex), a 32 strength at lvl 20, and my other stats:

While in ultimate wind stance:

S:32 (w/ +3 Str tome)
D:30 (with +3 Dex tome)
C:22 (w/+2 tome)
I:13 (combat expertise with my +3 Int tome)
W:23 (24 with a +3 tome)
Ch: 6 (still SEXY)

all of these tomes except the +3 Dex tome are in my inventory, ready to use after I reincarnate.

Why Wis so low? well, at lvl 20, with your save already astronomical, and Spell resistance is crazy, you really don't need a Wis that high, what you need is dps.

As a strength build, I can utilize kamas (lightning II) and ultimate wind stance for fair DPS as a monk, and when I want, i can just use handwraps for the in-your-face beatdowns.

Thats what I have planned so far for my 1st reincarnation.

[Failedlegend]

In light of all the comments I've redone some things....what do you guys think?

Note: Gonna be mainly using Handwraps/Fists and be in Wind stance most of the time...using Mountain stance as needed

32 pt. Dwarf Monk

Str 14+6 (item) = 20
Dex 16+2(Lvl) +6(item) = 24
Con 16+2(Lvl) +6(item) = 24
Int 8
Wis 16+3(Monk Wis) +1(Lvl) +6(item) = 26
Cha 6


Possible Feats:

Monk Bonus Feats: Toughness,Power Attack,Path of Light,Discipline
Granted: Evasion,Improved Evasion and a multitude of Monk specific abilities
Chosen: Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons,Weapon Focus:Bludgeoning, TWF (Line),Skill Focus:Concentration,,Power Crit


Skills:

Concentration,Jump,Balance


Enhancements:

Way of the Patient Tortoise
Monk Improved Recovery
Monk Wisdom
Difficulty at the beginning
Rise of the Phoenix
Unbalancing Strike
Restoring the Balance
Receptive Earth
Fists of light
Lifting the Veil
Grandmaster of Mountains
Grandmaster of Storms
Adept of Flame
Adept of Rain
Dwarf Toughness (2)
Monk Concentration (1)
Monk Serenity

80

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.12 BETA
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(20 Monk) 
Hit Points: 322
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 16
Will: 17

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)

Strength             14                    14
Dexterity            16                    18
Constitution         16                    18
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               16                    20
Charisma              6                     6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    31
Bluff                -2                    -2
Concentration         7                    47
Diplomacy            -2                    -2
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -2                    -2
Heal                  2                     4
Hide                  3                     4
Intimidate           -2                    -2
Jump                  7                    26
Listen                2                     4
Move Silently         3                     4
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                     1
Spot                  2                     4
Swim                  3                     3
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Discipline


Level 3 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Monk Path) Philosophy - Path of Harmonious Balance
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 5 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 6 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Power Critical


Level 7 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 9 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 11 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 12 (Monk)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 14 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 15 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Monk)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 17 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 18 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Concentration


Level 19 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Enhancement: Monk Serenity
Enhancement: Lifting the Veil
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose II
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose III
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose IV
Enhancement: The Receptive Earth
Enhancement: Restoring the Balance
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Fists of Light
Enhancement: Rise of the Phoenix
Enhancement: Difficulty at the Beginning
Enhancement: Unbalancing Strike
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Disciple of Breezes
Enhancement: Grandmaster of Storms
Enhancement: Master of Thunder
Enhancement: Adept of Rock
Enhancement: Disciple of Pebbles
Enhancement: Grandmaster of Mountains
Enhancement: Master of Stone
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Disciple of Candles
Enhancement: Adept of Rain
Enhancement: Disciple of Puddles
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Monk Concentration I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom III

[Irinis]

Oops, hit reply instead of new thread.

[Failedlegend]

I rolled the above Monk just to try it out and I was wondering how do you you make it so he uses TWF I only see one entry for a fist in his primary hand or does hands/wraps use THF?

Note: Still looking for input on build just created the monk to see how it would fair soloing Kobold assault

[Dexol]

Ooh, who peed in your coffee?

We like monks for our own reasons. If they're not the same as yours, too bad.

We all have funny anecdotes about stuff we've seen. I don't give a flying f*ck if you don't like it. The monk lived, everyone else died.

How exactly can you "time" a trap you didn't even know was there?

Not everyone has the time to run the same dungeon over and over and over to memorize trap locations and hidden areas.

I doubt if any of us will be impressed when you reply that you can memorize a dungeon on the first trip.

We play monks because they're fun. You sound like the kind of player that needs a graphing calculator to decide on what class or weapon to use.

Don't be shy, we know you've graphed out the dps ratios on Mathematica.

+1 for making me laugh on a cold dark winters morning

[TPICKRELL]

I rolled the above Monk just to try it out and I was wondering how do you you make it so he uses TWF I only see one entry for a fist in his primary hand or does hands/wraps use THF?

Hands are two weapons, and Wraps decorate the hands. You only see one slot used, but the wraps apply to both hands. Unfortunately, you can not mix hand wraps, so you can't wrap one hand differently than the other.

So, TWF does apply to hands even though you only see wraps filling one slot.

[Failedlegend]

Figured an alternative build using Warforged would be better for high AC build (GM Storms and Mountain for easy switch between Defensive and Offensive)..what do you guys think

Note: I welcome any corrections/suggestions especially for enhancements also internet slapping me for choosing WF (I love WF) instead of the awesome Dwarf Race is also acceptable...with a reason of the Dwarfs supeiority (or any race for that matter) as long as ability to get GM Storms and GM Mountains is still there.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.12 BETA
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Krogg 
Level 20 Lawful Neutral Warforged Male
(20 Monk) 
Hit Points: 302
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 16
Will: 17

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)

Strength             14                    14
Dexterity            16                    18
Constitution         16                    18
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               14                    18
Charisma              6                     6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    27
Bluff                -2                    -2
Concentration         7                    47
Diplomacy            -2                    -2
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -2                    -2
Heal                  2                     4
Hide                  3                     4
Intimidate           -2                    -2
Jump                  6                    25
Listen                2                     4
Move Silently         3                     4
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                  2                     4
Swim                  2                     2
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Discipline


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Philosophy - Path of Harmonious Balance
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 4 (Monk)


Level 5 (Monk)


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Power Critical


Level 7 (Monk)


Level 8 (Monk)


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Monk)


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Monk)


Level 14 (Monk)


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Monk)


Level 17 (Monk)


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Concentration


Level 19 (Monk)


Level 20 (Monk)
Enhancement: Monk Serenity
Enhancement: Lifting the Veil
Enhancement: Ten Thousand Stars
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose II
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose III
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose IV
Enhancement: The Receptive Earth
Enhancement: Restoring the Balance
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Fists of Light
Enhancement: Rise of the Phoenix
Enhancement: Difficulty at the Beginning
Enhancement: Unbalancing Strike
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Disciple of Breezes
Enhancement: Grandmaster of Storms
Enhancement: Master of Thunder
Enhancement: Adept of Rock
Enhancement: Disciple of Pebbles
Enhancement: Grandmaster of Mountains
Enhancement: Master of Stone
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Disciple of Candles
Enhancement: Adept of Rain
Enhancement: Disciple of Puddles
Enhancement: Monk Concentration I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom III
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I

Str 14+6 (item) = 20
Dex 16+2(Lvl) +6(item) = 24
Con 16+2(Lvl) +6(item) = 24
Int 8
Wis 14+3(Monk Wis) +1(Lvl) +6(item) = 24
Cha 6

[Morningfrost]

Figured an alternative build using Warforged would be better for high AC build (GM Storms and Mountain for easy switch between Defensive and Offensive)..what do you guys think

My experience is too limited to give advice to anyone, but I think fire-based stance is very good in offensive mode, even if everybody seems to discourage it here.

How do you figure out high AC? I'm level nine at the moment, with 21 DEX (wind stance) and 20 WIS, and AC is still low, around 23/29 depending on buffs. I know it sucks, but I can't find out how to boost it up. I have +4 bracers, magical robe in case, barkskin and mage armor, and it still sucks! How can people have 40/45 unbuffed AC with monks?

[Maximan]

Personally I prefer fire stance over wind stance. I've gone back and forth between the two, but my play style leans heavily towards the fire. This is primarily beacause I love spamming the elemental ki strikes and building up finishing moves. In fire stance my ki regeneration is fast enough for me to do this. When I switch to wind stance, yes I attack faster, but I get frustrated because it keeps yelling that I don't have enough ki.

Try out the various stances and play whichever one you prefer.

[Morningfrost]

This is primarily beacause I love spamming the elemental ki strikes and building up finishing moves. In fire stance my ki regeneration is fast enough for me to do this.

It's the same for me, I like to repeat healing Ki, Walk of the Sun and Alignigning the Heavens to aid the party. Probably it is different for a dark side monk.

Try out the various stances and play whichever one you prefer.

With it's DR, I have found Mountain Stance to be rather useful in places like Delera's Tomb when there are a lot of archers shooting at you. You will take less damage and also generate Ki when struck.

[Failedlegend]

Thanks for all the help everyone this is the build I'm gonna go with

32 pt. Halfling Monk

Str 12+6 (item)+1/2 (tome) = 19/20
Dex 16+2(Lvl) +6(item)+2(Halfling Dex) = 26
Con 14+6(item) = 20
Int  12(maybe +1 tome if CE is taken))
Wis 16+3(Monk Wis) +3(Lvl) +6(item) = 28
Cha  8

Skills:

Concentration,UMD,Balance,Hide,MS


Level progression and Feats:

1-Monk- TWF,Toughness
2-Monk- Diehard
3-Monk- Path of Light,Weapon Finesse
4-Monk-  + Wis
5-Monk- 
6-Monk- SF:UMD (May switch out for CE), Stunning Fist  
7-Monk-   
8-Monk-   + Dex
9-Monk-  Improved TWF
10-Monk- 
11-Monk- 
12-Monk-  +Wis, Power Attack
13-Monk- 
14-Monk- 
15-Monk-  Greater TWF
16-Monk-  +Wis
17-Monk-  
18-Monk-  Improved Crit: Bludgeoning
19-Monk- 
20-Monk-  +Dex (1 pt jump instead of UMD)


Enhancements:
Monk Serenity
Halfling Dex 2
Halfling Cunning 2
Halfling Guile 2
Lifting the Veil
Way of the Tortoise 4
The Receptive Earth
Restoring the Balance
Monk Healing Amp 1
Fists of Light
Rise of the Phoenix
Difficulty at the Beginning
Unbalancing Strike
Grandmaster of Storms
Grandmaster of Oceans 
Disciple of Pebbles
Disciple of Candles
Halfling Toughness 2
Monk Wis 3

80 AP

[HartThorn]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but does the Warforged's composite plate interfere with his Monk Centered bonus? And, would Mithral or Adamantine interfere if the composite won't? Was looking at creating an Earth Grand Master with Adamantine Body to create one helluva indestructible monk...