Sorc splash Pally?

[Dalzar]

I'm thinking of trying a 18/2 Sorc/Pally. When would be the best time to splash pally or should I start our as a pally? I'm thinking that I need to start Sorc to make this work. Any ideas about this build would be great.

Thanks in advance.

[2xslick]

Are you taking 2 paladin only for Divine Grace or do you plan on making a self buffing melee fighter?

In either case, I would suggest 9 levels of sorc first, then taking your two pal levels. This lets you cast two level 4 spells (firewall and stoneskin). From what I've seen, level four spells are teh awesome, and delaying access to them is bad.

[Dalzar]

More of a DPS with access with healing wands the Aura and Charisma enhancement and save's. Might be interesting to have Aura of Good and be able to off heal via wands.

I was thinking for this build 1 Sorc to start then 2 Pally then run sorc to end build. I'm just not sure this would be good. Also not sure if stone skin and AoG will stack? This could be an epic fail, this will be my first caster.......

[Kafanar]

I've seen this build its ok but does lose alotta sp at the end game, however ur Paladins charisma and Sorc Charisma wont stack u can only take 1 line of charisma enhancements unless im mistaken

[Dalzar]

I've seen this build its ok but does lose alotta sp at the end game, however ur Paladins charisma and Sorc Charisma wont stack u can only take 1 line of charisma enhancements unless im mistaken

Interesting I haven't dual/multi classed on this game, back in PnP im pretty sure they would stack. But not much on DDo and PnP are the same.

Why do you say its an ok build? Are you saying this from a healer stand point a caster stand point or a group's stand point? Just trying to see where you're looking at the build from.

[Stanley_Nicholas]

More of a DPS with access with healing wands the Aura and Charisma enhancement and save's. Might be interesting to have Aura of Good and be able to off heal via wands.

Going by this, I'd have to ask what's the point of even taking the caster levels? A pure paladin satisfies all those requirements, and does so much better than a 2 level splash. This kind of melee multiclass caster is a pretty advanced build that you're best off waiting on until you have a solid guild to run with, because in pugs they will expect you to fill the role of a caster, not a melee. Go for it if you want, but you will have some difficulties grouping with those who aren't familiar with you. Personally, I would recommend making a pure caster to get the feel of it before trying for a more complicated battle caster.

Interesting I haven't dual/multi classed on this game, back in PnP im pretty sure they would stack. But not much on DDo and PnP are the same.

Actually in PnP there are no such thing as enhancements. That's a DDO addition.

[2xslick]

Aura of Good grants +1 AC and +1 saves. You can spend an AP to have AoG also give +3 to concentration. Any other enhancements to AoG require 3 levels.

Stone Skin is a spell that grants damage reduction of 10/adamantine for 1 minute per caster level (and I believe until it absorbs 10 X Caster Level of damage, whichever comes first).

The bonus charisma from the paladin and sorcerer enhancements won't stack and the most you could take with the paladin line is +1 (you can take +3 at sorc 10).

What is going to be your source of dps? Melee? The reason to wait for level four spells before multiclassing is that you get a great aoe spell in firewall and that stoneskin gives you a way to absorb incoming damage while meleeing inside your firewall.

[cyadra]

A melee sorc is a viable build if done correctly, and with great gear and patience. Its a lot of fun to run with this type of character and you end up surviving more so than a regular sorc.

I went 16 Sorc/2pally/2monk on a WF. Starting stats are a pain to figure out. I went 14 CHA, 10 Wiz, 8 Int, 12 Con, 16 Dex, 16 Str. Some people drop the STR to 14 and put points in INT or CON, thats a personal choice, I like the ability to melee, and interestingly I can hold my own against other fighters and pallys with the right gear.

Take your first level as a Pally, grab a toughness feat. This gives you instant access to all weapons. I happened to have a carnifex ax hanging in my bank doing nothing, which worked well with this build. Then the rest of the levels take sorc until you get firewall. Once you get firewall, go pally, monk, monk, then back to sorc for the rest. OR go monk, monk, sorc then pally at 20. Grab a 2HF at level 3 and then your basic caster feats. It is imperative that if you go 2HF (or 2WF) that you grab the basic feat. At level 4 you should have around 83 or so Hit points, and 320 spell points which is plenty since you self heal. Grab a +2 cloak of CHA, the Wolf belt that grants +3 CON, the +5 false life ring, +2 Str Gloves, and +3 Dex boots, +2 int goggles, and the +2 Wisdom hat which will be great additions at level 5. Problem with the build is choosing between concentration and UMD early on.

Once you get firewall, get a great shield, you will be doing a lot of fighting in your FW, which other sorcs can't really do well. Tested against another WF in a group that was pure sorc at level 12, I lasted much much longer than he did. After the tempest run, he immediately dropped his character and rolled up a melee one. The game is about having fun, not about being super uber all the time. Its a good build if your patient, and willing to think out of the box.

[ddoer]

A melee sorc is a viable build if done correctly, and with great gear and patience. Its a lot of fun to run with this type of character and you end up surviving more so than a regular sorc.

I went 16 Sorc/2pally/2monk on a WF. Starting stats are a pain to figure out. I went 14 CHA, 10 Wiz, 8 Int, 12 Con, 16 Dex, 16 Str. Some people drop the STR to 14 and put points in INT or CON, thats a personal choice, I like the ability to melee, and interestingly I can hold my own against other fighters and pallys with the right gear.

Take your first level as a Pally, grab a toughness feat. This gives you instant access to all weapons. I happened to have a carnifex ax hanging in my bank doing nothing, which worked well with this build. Then the rest of the levels take sorc until you get firewall. Once you get firewall, go pally, monk, monk, then back to sorc for the rest. OR go monk, monk, sorc then pally at 20. Grab a 2HF at level 3 and then your basic caster feats. It is imperative that if you go 2HF (or 2WF) that you grab the basic feat. At level 4 you should have around 83 or so Hit points, and 320 spell points which is plenty since you self heal. Grab a +2 cloak of CHA, the Wolf belt that grants +3 CON, the +5 false life ring, +2 Str Gloves, and +3 Dex boots, +2 int goggles, and the +2 Wisdom hat which will be great additions at level 5. Problem with the build is choosing between concentration and UMD early on.

Once you get firewall, get a great shield, you will be doing a lot of fighting in your FW, which other sorcs can't really do well. Tested against another WF in a group that was pure sorc at level 12, I lasted much much longer than he did. After the tempest run, he immediately dropped his character and rolled up a melee one. The game is about having fun, not about being super uber all the time. Its a good build if your patient, and willing to think out of the box.

i'm most curious to know if anyone has actually leveled up the 16 Sorc/2pally/2monk build to 20, which server and toon name it is.

I could imagine it is fun to roll a minority/rare multiclass build. but I could imagine there are areas that make it less funny: some parties will not take you, and regular raid party probably won't take you, and the spell slot progress is very slow (speaking from my experience to run a monk-splash sorc, with 2 monk levels in the beginning, I get new spell slot 2 levels later than pure sorc)

re. instant access to all weapons, it could also be achieved via master touch. and for drow/elf, they have proficiency in rapier automatically.

re. meleeing in the firewall. does the increase in melee damage justify the lose of spell damage? and do you have sufficient AC to avoid getting hit all the time (in compare to shield block or chicken run) to avoid using mana for self-repair?

be honest, I have no idea how well such build could work, and I don't have interest to try it by myself.

[cyadra]

While you raise some valid points, some other things to consider:

1. Most raids take multiple sorcs/wizards. I have been on raids where they have outnumbered the melee and healers, you just end up casting the necessary lower level spells, not a big deal.
2. While you can do the same thing with master touch, why would you waste the sp and slot.
3. The damage "lost" by the firewall is more than made up for by your melee damage. For every gap in the damage cycle a mob takes in a firewall, you probably have swung your weapon at least 3 times and probably 6 times if hastened. This more than makes up for it.
4. You would need to be a WF do this, I wouldn't attempt this on any other race.
5. The major drawbacks are two fold. One you miss out on level 9 spells, which I have learned to live with, and two, you dont get your spells as quickly as a pure sorc, which is why if I were to do it again, I would go 1 pally/16 sorc/pally/monk/monk. THe sorc capstone is broken and probably wont be fixed since sorcs are too powerful anyways.

[Velexia]

I'm thinking of trying a 18/2 Sorc/Pally. When would be the best time to splash pally or should I start our as a pally? I'm thinking that I need to start Sorc to make this work. Any ideas about this build would be great.

Thanks in advance.

1 Sorcerer, then 1 Paladin. After that it's up to you when you want the lay on hands and kick ass saving throws =)

[Velexia]

Are you taking 2 paladin only for Divine Grace or do you plan on making a self buffing melee fighter?

In either case, I would suggest 9 levels of sorc first, then taking your two pal levels. This lets you cast two level 4 spells (firewall and stoneskin). From what I've seen, level four spells are teh awesome, and delaying access to them is bad.

Bah, never hard cast Stoneskin, the material component is ********, get wands of it.

[Velexia]

I've seen this build its ok but does lose alotta sp at the end game, however ur Paladins charisma and Sorc Charisma wont stack u can only take 1 line of charisma enhancements unless im mistaken

My 18 Sorc/2 Paladin has more than 2200 SP right now, and I'm not even full geared out.

[Velexia]

Going by this, I'd have to ask what's the point of even taking the caster levels? A pure paladin satisfies all those requirements, and does so much better than a 2 level splash. This kind of melee multiclass caster is a pretty advanced build that you're best off waiting on until you have a solid guild to run with, because in pugs they will expect you to fill the role of a caster, not a melee. Go for it if you want, but you will have some difficulties grouping with those who aren't familiar with you. Personally, I would recommend making a pure caster to get the feel of it before trying for a more complicated battle caster.



Actually in PnP there are no such thing as enhancements. That's a DDO addition.

One or both of you are mistaken. The 18 Sorc/2 Paladin is by no means a Melee character, it is Melee capable up to level 6, but it's true self is simply a highly self sufficient kick ass Sorcerer with saves that will only fail on 1's.

[zooble]

While you raise some valid points, some other things to consider:

1. Most raids take multiple sorcs/wizards. I have been on raids where they have outnumbered the melee and healers, you just end up casting the necessary lower level spells, not a big deal.
2. While you can do the same thing with master touch, why would you waste the sp and slot.
3. The damage "lost" by the firewall is more than made up for by your melee damage. For every gap in the damage cycle a mob takes in a firewall, you probably have swung your weapon at least 3 times and probably 6 times if hastened. This more than makes up for it.
4. You would need to be a WF do this, I wouldn't attempt this on any other race.
5. The major drawbacks are two fold. One you miss out on level 9 spells, which I have learned to live with, and two, you dont get your spells as quickly as a pure sorc, which is why if I were to do it again, I would go 1 pally/16 sorc/pally/monk/monk. THe sorc capstone is broken and probably wont be fixed since sorcs are too powerful anyways.

re 2: MT is a level 1 spell... its hardly wasting a slot or sp at 10sp for 16mins at max rank unextended. just use your racial weapons for those low levels if you want to take your damage/repair whatever spells prior to MT. if you don't have racial weapons then use a simple weapon+spells for those low levels (heavens forbid)

re 3: speculative. assumes you can hit (unlikely)... if you cast tensers then you cant fw/heal. assumes you can survive hits taken

re 5: asuming something that is broken to never be fixed is unwise. assuming something that is broken to be fixed in the future at some point no matter how far away is reasonable.

re your previous post:

+int goggles are doing what exactly?

why recommend 2HF or 2WF if you're going to use a shield and fight in fw once you get that spell

if you shield block in fw then whats the point of melee?

why shield block in fw when you can jump around hasted and take even less damage?

if you are dead set on shield blocking... a pure can shield block in fw too

even if you did melee in fw... when fw ticks for 200+ avg at cap that +1 damage from 16 str vs 14 str is going to seem like peanuts and you'll wish you had concentration maxed instead of choosing between that and umd. if for prereq then see 4th point above.

major lore item?

assuming you meleed with everything you had for the extra damage to kill stuff faster... a pure can just dance around for 1-3 more ticks (without breaking a sweat/taking item damage/using sp for heals) to make up the damage

[ddoer]

My 18 Sorc/2 Paladin has more than 2200 SP right now, and I'm not even full geared out.

i'm curious to know what the 2 pal level add to the sorc build? afaik, it gives higher saving throw, so how many points it give exactly? and what's the highest potential fort/reflex/will save for a pal splash?

I guess it should give a bit more HP. and how much a pal 2's lay-on-hand could heal?

p.s. i'm rolling a monk-splash and curious to know the difference between a monk-splash and a pal-splash sorc

[Arctigis]

i'm curious to know what the 2 pal level add to the sorc build? afaik, it gives higher saving throw, so how many points it give exactly? and what's the highest potential fort/reflex/will save for a pal splash?

I guess it should give a bit more HP. and how much a pal 2's lay-on-hand could heal?

p.s. i'm rolling a monk-splash and curious to know the difference between a monk-splash and a pal-splash sorc

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Feativine_Grace

[ddoer]

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Feativine_Grace

**** useful.

[Phidius]

More of a DPS with access with healing wands the Aura and Charisma enhancement and save's. Might be interesting to have Aura of Good and be able to off heal via wands.

I was thinking for this build 1 Sorc to start then 2 Pally then run sorc to end build. I'm just not sure this would be good. Also not sure if stone skin and AoG will stack? This could be an epic fail, this will be my first caster.......

Healing with wands gets very tiresome once you have more than 120 hit points or so... if you want to get good healing, keep your UMD max'd and use Heal scrolls.

The Paladin's ability to use Cure wands at low levels is nice, but how long are you planning to stay at low levels?

[thenalim]

While you raise some valid points, some other things to consider:
3. The damage "lost" by the firewall is more than made up for by your melee damage. For every gap in the damage cycle a mob takes in a firewall, you probably have swung your weapon at least 3 times and probably 6 times if hastened. This more than makes up for it.

How do you figure that? +15% attack speed does not make you hit 2x as fast.