The Cannon Fodder Tank, The Kensai/Stalwart Build

[rukkerz]

I guess what I personally was getting at is this.

When you take the twf feats you only get the benefit when you are Dual Wielding.

When you take the Bastard Sword + THF Feats you get the benefit when your in DPS mode with a 2-hander and while your in Tank mode with a shield.

Every THF Build i have seen pretty much is Kensai and Dump stats Dex. I was more curious if you had this particular build and dumped in the THF/Bastard Sword line if it would be still Viable. Still have Decent AC/Saves/Intimidate so you can still be Mr do it all with the amazing Fraps Videos.

Thanks For the response.

[MrWizard]

you could do the same build, just substitute the three feats of twf for thf and take bastard sword instead of khopesh.

as to which weapon you want the extra to hit and damage from the feats and enhancements is up to you, bastard or g-axe or whatever.

and you will need to craft that thf weapon for dps along with the same type for your shield weapon....for which ever way you may be fighting...too much crafting for me though.

[rukkerz]

Thank You for the Quick response again!

Here is the build that I drew up, I don't have any tomes at this time but this is how I would correctly distribute them If i'm reading correctly. Also I only put in the tomes that were needed for skill ups/feats. There would be no reason to go with +2 to all (other then wisdom being wasted). Tell me what you think. Thanks

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Warrox 
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(20 Fighter) 
Hit Points: 352
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 8
Will: 8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    23
Dexterity            15                    15
Constitution         15                    16
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             12                    14

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                    13
Bluff                 1                     2
Concentration         2                     3
Diplomacy             1                     2
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                1                     2
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  2                     2
Intimidate            5                    37
Jump                  4                    22
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         2                     2
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     2
Search                1                     2
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  2                     6
Tumble                4                    13
Use Magic Device      3                    16

Level 1 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery


Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise


Level 5 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 7 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery III
Enhancement: Fighter Armored Agility I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III
Enhancement: Fighter Bastard Sword Specialization I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate II
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III

Now if i did Enchancement swap to Kensai obviously it would be to Falchion or Greatsword. (axes are meh and for dwarves)

[rukkerz]

Forgot to Mention. That last feat is really up in the air for me. Not sure if Power Attack would be more Viable for when swapping in to DPS or if its better to just run in CE mode and still have the bonus to AC. Quickdraw seemed like an okay Idea for swapping from Two-handed to S&B.

[Quikster]

Forgot to Mention. That last feat is really up in the air for me. Not sure if Power Attack would be more Viable for when swapping in to DPS or if its better to just run in CE mode and still have the bonus to AC. Quickdraw seemed like an okay Idea for swapping from Two-handed to S&B.

quikdraw also decreases the delay to attack when hitting haste boost or intimidate

[camgib]

I just wanted to thank you for sharing your build. I am building a (very slightly) modified version of this build on the Cannith server and am greatly enjoying Kaciejones. Your build adds great versatility to what I always thought of as a boring toon (role). My guildies and I are really more of a static group, and Kacie makes great contributions to our ability to get through otherwise difficult missions. I have learned a lot from building Kacie and will be incorporating some of the ideas I have learned here into the building of other toons as well.

[SgtDante]

This build is very detailed and explained a lot. I ran across it at exactly the right time. My first character is true rezzing.

[MrWizard]

well, bored and running out my sub, figured to TR a second time.
str 16
dex 15
con 16
wis 8
cha 12
int 12

although I felt that I wanted 13 for int and cha to start and probably should have versus making con 16...oh well.

they said TR2 is horrid for xp and there is not enough xp. I am 9th level now and find no issue at all with that. Infact, I am leveling way faster than the content runs out.

I tried to do elite once, no optionals, no wilderness, and was level 6 long before I was hitting 5th level quests. My way of leveling is doing all elite 1st level, then 2nd level, then 3rd, etc....only deviating by following a chain.

At 7th level I decided to just hop in where ever, for any quest, and just enjoy the ride.

At 8th I got my one min 8 greensteel...that is cool. Slay living sword!

At 9th I got some good gear thrown in there. Ran out of cash from so many solo runs (pots, pots, pots of bark, faith, cure, stat boosts)

11th ought to be cool since I get my greensteel items...whoo hooo.

at 9th level I have almost 1200 favor, still have some 5th level quests to do, mostly all of the 7th...and of course not much above that...
Most of the repeats have been for tear of dhak since I like that quest (but the 'all optionals' people make it rather boring at times).


My first TR I had not gotten a lot of my gear crafted or finished.....this TR I have all the gear I need waiting...and that rocks.


I feel the TR, once your gear is ready and waiting, is quite fun spending more time at level. It allows you to fully experience that level and quests (for the most part) instead of just zooming by it. This is especially true as I am a very casual player.


fun fun fun...can I hit 20 before feb. subscription end though?

[Quikster]

Lots of xp at the levels youre at. The part people really whine about is lvl 18 and 19. Have fun with the tr

[MrWizard]

okay, so level 13th....my second TR....here are my thoughts...


1) leveling has been much funner this time around since I had all my crafting done. At 8th level I got my two handed great sword trip neg greensteel. 9-10 I got a lot of gear like gh clickies. 11 I got my greensteel items (wow, what a diff), and then 12 got my greensteel weapons.

2) the longer time to level has allowed me to spend time doing most or all of each quest in my level range. I only farmed one quest (thanks happy) and that was shadow crypt for a quick 12 to 13 level. Other than that I just did elite once and done (no optional runs). I also just willy nilly joined groups doing anything in my range like gwylans, stormcleave, tear, etc, due to them being enjoyable.


Overall I was unimpressed with a lot of game players for the following reasons...

1) deathward and freedom. 2 of the most powerful cleric spells that none of us have access to (for the most part) and I did not see it being cast until 12th level. And that was after I begged. Not getting these spells right away is a detriment to the party (in my opinion.)

2) seldom saw any crowd control. An occasional command or hypno and a few webs..one caster used halt undead, a couple used a rare charm. Absolutely no crowd control. Wow. First level spells like hypno take out the whole battle in one cast.
Crowd control basically does not exist in 100% of the pugs except for the very rare experienced caster or cleric that came along.

3) one bard fascinated undead...1

4) GH? Blur? Resist energy? Heroism? freedom? deathward? displace? They do not exist for 100% of the pugs I joined getting to 13 except for the rare experienced player who joined. Haste came along with a few casters (read: FEW). Buffing seems to be extinct and completely misunderstood.

5) As an intim user I find it hilarious when a caster casts wall of fire and starts jumping around. What is funny about that is I will stand in the fire and hit intim. The mobs stop chasing the caster and just surround me. The caster will continue the run and jump the whole time never realizing the mobs are not chasing him. It is very funny to watch and makes it all worthwhile.

6) wands of cure, scrolls....Guess no one realizes pallys, bards, rangers, and umd users can actually use these things, not just the cleric. Disappointing to have to be the back up healer with UMD while at the center of battle with others in the group that could fill that roll well.


I have most of the 9th and lower quests done on elite and have ventured a bit higher level ones too, up to 14th. Have 1958 favor.... My goal is to get that 400 coin lord for the +2 intim and the 400 silver flame for the Pots (ugh, hate the necro). Right now coin is at 326 with enough stuff left below level 14 quests to make that happen. Silver Flame is at 234 with a lot more necro (3 and 4) to go...



Learned about the resist 20 pots in the 12. Did not know about that all this time.


Intim, with gear is 50. Add GH for a sustained 54 self buffed. I can boost to 57 with Versatility. Add a bard buff and/or house d pots and it is into the low 60s.

Healing amp, have all 3 human levels and a trip positive weapon for around 123% healing amp right now..at level 13.

AC- did not go crazy buying the best for this level...but with +4 tower shield on I have a 54 beholder proof ac and about a 27 blocking DR.


summary

all in all, the second TR is not the horrid grind that I was afraid of. Having all of my gear done and waiting is a pleasant experience (the first TR I did all my crafting and was very grindy). I am not shooting like crazy to level 20 since I want to enjoy the powerful toon and check out the quests.

So many quests have been changed in many ways since I ran some of them. It has been fun to do so again.


Skipped quests - (8th level and below)

guard duty (protect quest and no one would ever join group)
stealthy repo (actually went back around 10th level with an invis clickie and did it)
devil assault (the elite version is 18th level and I will do it soon, need the coin lord)
gladewatch outpost defense (forget this mindnumbing easy fail quest..one of the worst in the game)
faithful departed (another easy fail mindnumb fest)

I might go back and do devil assault if I need it for coin lord favor, but the rest are not fun quests at all.



elite once and done has made it very easy to level my TRx2. Also quite a challenge too.

Would I do it a third time? Maybe after a few years and a lot more new quests. TR, even with the longer leveling is preferred over starting a new character as you probably have all your gear. The new toon grind for the gear far outweighs the xp grind of a TR.

For example my second fighter has done hound 23 times and no shield. Done titan 12 times and no ring. Did prey on the hunter a million times and still cannot finish his Dragontouch armor. And so on.
For some gear you may run a quest once and get it, others you may have to run 100 times or more.

TR versus new character? TR wins, new character is impossible for casual play. The loot mechanic is horrid.


Loot, by the way, on leveling up is horrendous as it was the first TR. I could only get usable weapons, armors, and other gear off the auction house since at 13th level, on elite quests, I still mainly get +1 weapons, armors, shields, and stat gear. After getting to 12th level I did start getting some good 8th level gear, but that was doing 14th level quests.....


it does not shock me to realize it is not just inexperience which makes the newer players have a hard time surviving, it is the incredibly rare drops of useful loot like +3 armor, or +3 weapons, or DR breakers like holy (only saw one after 11th level.....).

Newer players are at an extreme disadvantage without the money to buy ridiculous priced items on the auction house or vendors and the rarity of any of it dropping in a quest. No money to buy pots and scrolls and wands...no good loot...and inexperience...wow, these players got it much harder than we did.

I have a lot of patience for them now that I understand the poor loot.


anyway, hope you enjoyed the very long thread on tanks... tank you very much.

[Feithlin]

Would I do it a third time? Maybe after a few years and a lot more new quests. TR, even with the longer leveling is preferred over starting a new character as you probably have all your gear. The new toon grind for the gear far outweighs the xp grind of a TR.

I like that point of view. I have never done a TR because I was fearing the grind (and I hate grinding, especially as I am a casual player). But you have the right point of view, I would actually grind less by TR'ing instead of doing a new char. Time to prepare some TR

Btw, thx for all the info on tanking. I did one and found he was very near from yours, which made me happy I didn't do any major error.

[MrWizard]

I like that point of view. I have never done a TR because I was fearing the grind (and I hate grinding, especially as I am a casual player). But you have the right point of view, I would actually grind less by TR'ing instead of doing a new char. Time to prepare some TR

Btw, thx for all the info on tanking. I did one and found he was very near from yours, which made me happy I didn't do any major error.

Thanks.

I was bringing up a second tank and got stuck trying to get leviks shield and my final tier of dragontouch. I tried for 3 months. Ran hound every three days, ran prey of hunter at least three times everytime I logged on.

For 3 solid months I was unable to secure a leviks defender shield (only saw one drop) even after 20 runs on HoX. After a million prey on hunters and not getting the one sov rune I needed I just gave up. What a waste of time.

That character is in limbo since I cannot take him to the next level without his gear, and there will be more gear after that is done. But to make it a pointless grind is just wrong.

I pity anyone who needs a set of tome pages. I ran those quests til I was blind over the years and only found 2.

I have, collectively with all my toons, ran titan about 80 times. Only saw one chattering ring drop for a caster (who took it!!!) and have wrote that off.


This type of useless grinding is way below xp grinding. This falls squarely on the devs laps as just a bad mechanic. I know people who had to run hundreds of epics just to get that one scroll or other crafting thing to upgrade one weapon. 100s?

The loot mechanic is poorly designed and needs to be looked at again. Really. Its like running the shroud 20 times and praying you will get that one small power shard to start making a weapon.

[hockeyrama]

I built a modified version of this called tootanks on the thelanis server. I did a raid with a good group and got my ac to 101 with just using a +5 mithral. I also have pulled aggro off of some barbs when it came to pure beat down mode (bosses that can't be held and beats is easier then kite) on some epic quests when dual wielding dwarven war axes (min2 and dream edge, or +5 maiming thundering). I really wanted to thank you for the hard work you did. I have had no problems tanking whenever I want and can still do a great job dps when not tanking. Here is a pic of him blocking with 96+5 ac.

http://www.c-l-a-w.org/forums/attach...1&d=1290143984

[jurzey]

okay, so level 13th....my second TR....here are my thoughts...

Long ass post.
anyway, hope you enjoyed the very long thread on tanks... tank you very much.

Had to rep you for this since it is exactly how i feel about EXP and the TR.

Now all i need is to get my gear so i can TR twice.

[MrWizard]

Okay, so second TR, at level 14 now....

Here is the fat selection so far...a little harder to decide based on longer time at level. It makes a big difference.

Combat Expertise
Improved Trip
Force of Personality
Improved crit slash
Improved Crit Pierce (banishing and smite rapiers for the win)
Imp Shield mastery
TWF, ITWF, OTWF
free- past life fighter
Student of sword (past life feat)
Shield mastery
Toughness
Coin lord finishing school +2 intim (coin lord favor)


I really struggled over the OTWF. I really struggled with not taking the GTWF feat too. But everything has been needed so much, been running elite almost all the way up. When I solo elite and the mobs are a hitting me, I gotta be able to turtle up and heal myself. The OTWF makes the to-hit better, something I need for the elite runs at higher difficulties for sure. Can't wait to get the focus and spec feats though.


With all the pluses for the TR, I am waiting on the weapons spec and focus feats.

I went with full intim and human recovery enhancements so I got my 123% healing amp.
Intim 57 with GH. Add a ship and a bard and over 60. This is with +4 cha item, not +6. Human skill boost will add 3 to this...low to mid 60s when it is needed.


Got to tank VoD norm with this build at 14th level.. No problems at all, awesome having all the gear and quite fun. Even though some 20s were in the group I still got 5k xp.

I am able to hit heal scrolls and true seeing scrolls.... I do have to switch to my gloves (+5) and my HOGF (+2), and usually blow a human versa boost to make it...low 30s when doing it...but enough to be successful a lot. ANd makes raising easier for sure. (UMD is abot 28.5 with GH, 31.5 with boost, more with ship buffs or bard song)

Definitely funner this time around with the gear.

[nucphyschem]

Ok just reread the thread and have a question on my mind thanks to the idea about an elf build. Would doing a h-elf build be worth it since you could go dilettante cleric or would that eat to much of my AP up in terms of AC and dam boosting skills?

[Darkrok]

Just wanted to thank Mr. Wizard for this build. I'm toying around with the idea of rolling up an either/or kind of toon like this (most of the feats to go either dps and kensei or ac/dr and stalwart). Mine isn't as powerful as a build as this posted one but I'm going dwarf and THF - that way our dps feats (THF w/ Great Axe) match up to our tanking damage feats (THF w/ d.axe&board). What I found very helpful here was the discussion of feats. I normally wouldn't have considered skipping stunning blow/improved trip on this type of build but your feat list in the OP - especially the fact that you gave a very good discussion on each feat - helps to highlight the pro's/con's of each feat. It was also really nice to get that helpful reminder that Force of Personality is very useful to this type of character.

[edragoon148]

Hmm ... slightly confused by the push for high AC. If there is any lesson ive learned from epics its that AC no longer matters in endgame content. This ia definitely not to discount your ability to build toons :-) but ive found that my kensei tank generatez twice the dps he had as a defender, gets hit just as much in epics with a 40 AC as he did with a 80 AC, and still has enough intim to grab epic DQ on a 1. Not saying i dislike stalwart but im enjoying the ability to stomp epics and still be a viable tank. Again, no disrespect :-) just another perspective on toon building.

[MrWizard]

Hmm ... slightly confused by the push for high AC. If there is any lesson ive learned from epics its that AC no longer matters in endgame content. This ia definitely not to discount your ability to build toons :-) but ive found that my kensei tank generatez twice the dps he had as a defender, gets hit just as much in epics with a 40 AC as he did with a 80 AC, and still has enough intim to grab epic DQ on a 1. Not saying i dislike stalwart but im enjoying the ability to stomp epics and still be a viable tank. Again, no disrespect :-) just another perspective on toon building.

from day 1 in this game the forums have always been 'ac is useless, ac is dead, blah blah'
so far that has been 100% wrong in all of my experiences playing an ac tank.

why would you come here and purposely troll this junk...this is a complete derail of the build thread, made to just antagonize people.
Sorry your ac build was horrid for you, good luck with your kensai.

[MrWizard]

well, hit 17 with the double TR...did not want to do it yet, but xp is not so hard to get as people seem to complain about.

I wanted to stay 16 and attempt to survive part 1 of ToD fully geared...see how long using silver flame pots and some tactics I used during my 'non geared' wimp 15th level try with my other toon.

But the levels came so quick I am now 17...so I get to try it with a 17th level. Should be fun, will post a video (although the video lag causes major issues in combat). I wanted to try at 16, but my timer was 2+days and 16 just went by so quick.

It is true, somewhat, when they say a well geared Double TR is really a couple levels above a non geared normal toon...I am finding amrath very easy on casual and norm since hitting 15, now 17 I am venturing into hard difficulties. This is something I had trouble with on my original TR since I did not have crafted gear and weapons.
Having them all makes it much easier to push it (though still some problems being that low in there for sure).

Silver flame pots are a 50/50 for me. I do not have a +3 wis tome and my wis is 10. I keep wisdom pots handy so I do not become helpless when I use them.
I notice no real issues when using the 100HP ones and the 250HP ones really slow my movement, but standing in one place fighting is cool.

However, taking two pots, one after another, seems to compound the -10 to abilities..in an odd way...but dangerous.
They do seem to have some kind of 'cast time' and in combat seem to be easily disrupted during a swallow giving me no heal at all (died a few times from that).

Some of this could just be that 1/2-1 full second lag the game seems to use now.

Got to tank HoX (got my intim to 62 by 15, 65 by 16 with GH)..added some house D pots and a bard and close to no fail at 15 when tanking. Got to tank VoD on norm at 14, hard at 16...quite fun...will only do that elite from now on.
Got some shrouds at level in..but hard to get groups.
The Titan..never found a group at level that wanted to do it..bummer
DQ- only found one group at level and never again.
Reaver- did at level, quite fun now.


ToD- got to jump into a run with Jinx and renown...at 16. They had me tank sully. Which was great except I could not wear my boots, had to use scarabs of prot.
THose scarabs are costly and sully casts a lot of spells. Went through 75 charges just with him...the rest with horoth...
That was two full scarabs..ouch cost wise..ouch indeed.

soloed Inspired quarter jeets quests and mindsunder, did casual at 16, was fun and survived. Titan one also (the end guy was a bit tough with all the mobs)...definitely fun though when well geared.

If I ever get the chattering ring (probably never) I will consider myself geared enough to hit epic and check it out. I should be able to self buff in the 80s, with party help near 90. That should grant better than the 25% I was getting in my test at around 82AC. Add in permanent blur, displace clickies, should be okay.

Improved Trip is at 40 DC right now (thanks to those wonderful past life feats..!!) though not sure how to get it much higher (think I have 2 more enhancements to get). Quite awesome but having to use a vertigo weapon instead of a dps weapon bites.


A note..after re reading this thread. The Power attack issue. The build clearly states it is an option to use..among many others..and is useful. I personally do not have it yet as my AC needs that boost still and improved crit slashing and trip are way more powerful right now for high crit procs and dropping enemies to the ground.
The build clearly outlines the use of power attack and a feat that should be looked at, but for some reason the posters got all 'no power attack' about it...shame


I would say a great money saver on bark pots is the seal of the earth from the DQ raid...well worth it until you get the chattering ring and ToD ring (in which case you cannot wear three rings).


Another note..
Much is quoted around as saying putting insight 4 on DT is stupid and it should be put on weapons....and 3 dodge (like the chattering ring) should be there instead.
I fully disagree with this...100%.

1) 4 insight on DT armor is always on...and gaining the chattering ring gives you 7 AC.

2) crafting Greensteel weapons and taking the last tier for 4 insight (as suggested) instead of some kind of 'blast' dps is totally against all the 'dps only' people who tell you to add insight to greensteel. It just makes no sense at all.

3) I use many weapons, not just my GS, or my min II. When I shield tank a boss I hold a shield in one hand and a healing stick in the other. This would mean I would lose 4 AC because I am not holding my Greensteel with 4 ac on it.

I am sorry, it is just a poor decision to lower both your burst dps and sustainable dps by lowering the damage your weapon can do while also lowering your ac and survivability.



The shield mastery feats are incredible. Sure, they are only worth 3 DR...but intotal I get 45 DR...45. I shield blocked epic mobs that hit for 60 points. And graze too! I did not need one heal and only used a few pots. The leviks shield healed me enough.
I am sorry, but 6 points of damage reduction sounds weak, but people craft epic items for 5 DR!!! Please.


I am finding high ac, high DR, high healing amp, high UMD, and sustained dps work very well.


It is all in how you play though.
I have seen many ac tanks that are more set on dps and less in the other areas. That is fine. However, they do not play the battle to grab all aggro all the time. They only hit intim when absolutely needed and thus their lower AC is not as affected since all the mobs are not attacking them.

The way you play determines your needs. The term cannonfodder is loosely defined as expendable front line troops used for feints, strategy, and even to cover retreats. The longer they stay alive, the better the plan will work. This build was meant to rush right in and grab all the aggro it can and somehow survive...and still fight while doing it....and self heal when it needs too.

A tank can be built any way you want, but this works for me and my playstyle. And although since day 1 they said ac is useless and does not matter I find that since day 1 of playing this ac tank they were wrong. Really wrong. And still are wrong.

I really do not think any of them actually went 100% into an AC build and played it correctly (using its strengths, protecting its weaknesses). I guess I can see their reasoning from that viewpoint, never having experienced it.

I rarely ever had to carry an ac tank to a shrine, nor raise one. I only use intim to protect the party, not me. If we were all ac tanks in a raid, no one would care about intim unless it went after the cleric. We would just surround anything that moved and kill it...probably not needing a cleric as we self healed.


In summary....
I still do not understand the unbridled hatred a lot of players have for people who play ac tanks with high intimidation skills. Just the mention of it sends them into tizzy fits. Many a ToD and other raids have gone to h#ll when the not so well built hate tank died and I stepped in with intim to just stop the chaos.

It is fun to not have to tank and just dps on the back...but when you know you can walk into the raid, shield up, 100% intim the boss, self heal with no need for a cleric at all (including self buffing), and make the raid a cakewalk..... It is hard to fathom that people so hate AC tanks and intim that they will blow mana pots out their yahoo, have deaths and chaos, and just use the wrong person for the job.

As soon as the intim goes up, everyone can attack non stop..if it turns around it will be for maybe a second, just keep hitting it. No waiting for hate to take effect, no waiting for 'reacquisition' of hate...just hit and kill...non stop.
No mana pots on the intim tank, no chaos, no worry..


Keeping dps on the sideline waiting, having an intim on the back of a mob, it is just illogical from time, resources, and speed.
You might as well get the halfling shuriken user to take out the crystal in part 2 of the shroud and put the sorcerer on melee duty..
it is that illogical.

'but intim-tanks suck'...sure, there are players of all classes with bad builds or not so good at playing. But there are many who are extremely well built whether hate tanks, intim tanks, sorcs, etc...

A well built intim is an asset for any strategy minded party. I have seen the little firewall tricks in epic and other quests...you know an ac tank with high DR could hold them in the firewall too and it would be neater since everyone could hit them too!!!! They would die faster.


so..done ranting.
If you have read the thread to this point you will see many good views on the subject of tanking, making builds, and of course this builds pluses and minuses. I wish we had centered more on playstyles though, because that does matter in why and how a build is built.

The build was back in update 4...wow...today we are looking forward to update 9.. Many things with the enhancements, attack speeds, capstones, and more have changed..so much in less than a year.
Changes are being made to epic to make AC below 85 matter more I hear via rumor, so the whole argument will again crop up when that happens.


final summary, ac does not suck. Period.