The Cannon Fodder Tank, The Kensai/Stalwart Build

[MrWizard]

Is this a workable alternative to the proposed AC set? The intention is to cut down on the crafting, while still maintaining as much AC/HP as possible.


Eyes - GS Goggles (+6 CHA Skills, Raise Dead Clickie, Pos/Pos/Pos)
Head - +15 Intimidation
Neck - Stalwart Necklace (+6 CON, LABE, SD)
Trkt - Head of Good Fortune (Good Luck +2)
Back - GS Cloak (+45 HP, Heavy Fort, +5 Prot, Earth/Pos/Earth)
Belt - Open
Ring - Cinder's Band (+6 STR, SD, eCon +1, eCha +2)
Ring - Chattering Ring (+3 Dodge)
Hands - +6 Dex Gloves (+6 DEX)
Boots - Boots of Striding (Striding 30%)
Wrst - Chaosgarde (+2 Dodge)
Armr - DT (Resist +5; +6 CHA; Insight +4; Armor Ritual +1)
Shield - Leviks Defender (+3 Insight AC, 20% threat, Healer's Bounty)

the crafting is for non-ac stuff...do what is easiest for you

the crafting is over time, and it allows you to start condensing slots....no rush on it, but might as well, makes your toon better

[Ricter]

the crafting is for non-ac stuff...do what is easiest for you

the crafting is over time, and it allows you to start condensing slots....no rush on it, but might as well, makes your toon better

Thanks.

[worthful]

I've seen you post a few times that the TWF nerf doesn't really hurt this build that much. Is this the truth for all levels, or just for higher ones? It seems that this nerf doesn't terrible hurt people at high levels, but it seems really painful for lower levels.

I'm sure my math is inaccurate, but I also think it holds some truth or value.

I'm currently level 8, and I only have TWF (no ITWF or GTWF) which gives me a 40% chance to have an off hand attack. A little less than half of my damage comes from my off hand. So let's say 40% of my damage is left hand, and they just reduced the DPS that my left hand does by 60%, so I lose 24% DPS right now. I went with 40% left hand because I realize that the off hand does take penalties when dual wielding, but I'm not sure how big they are. Anyways, I think you get the point that I'm trying to make.

I figured at 20 you're correct about this not really hurting much. You're going to have 80% proc rate, so you're really only losing out on 8% total dps, and since they added double strike it seems that you can more than make up for it using that feat.


Anyway, any thoughts on how this hurts you at low levels?

[MrWizard]

its fine, you just need to get used to the changes, that's all.

its global...mob hit points are lower...its fine..

just play and enjoy

[TheMeanDM]

Questions for you, MrWizard...

In regards to Damage Reduction and Two-Weapon Fighting (post update 5).

Could this build be tweaked to accomodate:

Warforged
Damage Reduction enhancements

My thought process is that since Fighters were affected by the change to TWF, the feats of TWF, ITWF and GTWF could possibly be spent elsewhere?

Adamantine Body (2)
DR Enhancement (3)
Improved DR (1)
= 6 DR

Only spending 2 of the 3 feats normally spent on the TWF chain.

Damage Reduction: With shield mastery and improved mastery you will end up near 40 for damage reduction while blocking with a good tower shield. That is INCREDIBLE when tanking an end boss. Absolutely worth it.

So, if your "base" DR is 6.....would that put this build 40+ in DR?

Question #2
With the change to Bastard Sword and Shield......is there any benefit do you think of taking Bastard Sword in place of Khopesh.....and possibly Two Handed Fighting instead of TWF?

[worthful]

Questions for you, MrWizard...

In regards to Damage Reduction and Two-Weapon Fighting (post update 5).

Could this build be tweaked to accomodate:

Warforged
Damage Reduction enhancements

My thought process is that since Fighters were affected by the change to TWF, the feats of TWF, ITWF and GTWF could possibly be spent elsewhere?

Adamantine Body (2)
DR Enhancement (3)
Improved DR (1)
= 6 DR

Won't taking adamantine body ruin your AC some? It gives you a lower MDB. On the few WF I've made, it never seemed like ADM body was good, even though the DR is always on and nice, if you want to get higher AC you should probably not take it.

[worthful]

its global...mob hit points are lower...its fine..

I guess I skipped over the mobs having fewer hit points thing, but me missing something isn't very surpising.

just play and enjoy

I've got this one on lockdown =D My DPS going down some isn't really going to affect any core mechanics or how fun it is to be immune to physical damage, so I'll be alright with having fun

[TheMeanDM]

Won't taking adamantine body ruin your AC some? It gives you a lower MDB. On the few WF I've made, it never seemed like ADM body was good, even though the DR is always on and nice, if you want to get higher AC you should probably not take it.

Not quite sure what an MDB is, sorry

Well, lets crunch it...

Max Dex for this build is 24 (+7) per 2nd post.

Adamantine Body = 8 ac (+1 dex)
Ftr Armor Mastery x3 = +3 AC (+3 dex)

Total AC: 12 (8 base + 4 dex)

****

Mithral Body = 5 ac (+5 dex)
Ftr Armor Mastery x3 = +3 AC (+3 Dex)

Total AC: 13 (if you bump dex to 26)
Total AC: 12 (if you keep dex at 24)

So I'm not seeing any difference in the final AC between Mithral and Adamantine body feats...unless you want higher Dex, of course.

[worthful]

MDB == Max Dex Bonus


don't forget the penalty you'll take on skills, not just AC alone.

[Quikster]

with defender enhancement you get +2 mdb for heavy armor (addy body). This should now work per U5

[MrWizard]

Questions for you, MrWizard...

In regards to Damage Reduction and Two-Weapon Fighting (post update 5).

Could this build be tweaked to accomodate:

Warforged
Damage Reduction enhancements

My thought process is that since Fighters were affected by the change to TWF, the feats of TWF, ITWF and GTWF could possibly be spent elsewhere?

Adamantine Body (2)
DR Enhancement (3)
Improved DR (1)
= 6 DR

Only spending 2 of the 3 feats normally spent on the TWF chain.

Damage Reduction: With shield mastery and improved mastery you will end up near 40 for damage reduction while blocking with a good tower shield. That is INCREDIBLE when tanking an end boss. Absolutely worth it.

So, if your "base" DR is 6.....would that put this build 40+ in DR?

Question #2
With the change to Bastard Sword and Shield......is there any benefit do you think of taking Bastard Sword in place of Khopesh.....and possibly Two Handed Fighting instead of TWF?

I get 45 DR now while blocking, 49 if with stoneskin.
Taking away your dps feats is not recommended.

The bastard and dwarven axe have added some damage to get them close to khopesh, but only if single wielding. And you should have all the THF feats to make it even close. Not worth it.

You can still swing a d-axe or b-sword, you will just be at -4, so go ahead and use them.

The only thing I have really noticed is the much slower swing speed than normal. We lost a 10% speed bonus but added some dps for double strike. With the TWF feat line and the 10% you are doing great damage just like before.

However, I find I now need, for the first time, haste on my fighter. So I carry pots for battles or it seems like it takes forever now. I can now haste to the fighting speed I used to be at before the update.


its all fine. don't buy into the whole doom BS being thrown around. Mobs have less hit points, so no real biggie. If anything, AC is more effective as the mobs seem to fight at the same speed regardless.

[ZenAkrua]

How does this look? o3o I'm just gonna forgo imp. crit pierce and just have enhancements be flexible to save on funds. Crits and help plz.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Female
(20 Fighter) 
Hit Points: 332
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 9
Will: 8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    24
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         15                    15
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             12                    13

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                    14
Bluff                 1                     1
Concentration         2                     2
Diplomacy             1                     1
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                1                     1
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate            5                    38
Jump                  7                    30
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     2
Search                1                     2
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  3                     8
Tumble                3                    10
Use Magic Device      3                    15

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Armored Agility I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Bullheaded
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 5 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I


Level 7 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specialization I


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 11 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II


Level 13 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate III


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Human Versatility III


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specialization II


Level 17 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery III


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Weapon Alacrity
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III

[sweez]

Considering this

Tumbling is not allowed anymore when you have been hit by most effects that reduce your movement speed, such as Slow spells, troglodyte stench or AOE fog and clouds that slow you down (Acid Fog, Solid Fog, etc.).

does this

Tumble - Due to certain limitations of the stalwart defender stance you will end up moving incredibly slow while in it. Tumbling will allow much faster movement. However, this is a cross class skill and is affected detrimentally by your armor and shields also. A low tumble will not be much help, so the higher the better.
I find tumbling is very beneficial during high end content and movement in stance. Well worth the effort.

still apply?

[Quikster]

Considering this



does this



still apply?

yes

[ZenAkrua]

Oh also one weird and nostalgia-motivated question, can I re-tool this build for elf or will it gimp it too hard? ;;

That also begs the question.. could I go drow and forgo the Dodge feat.. Hmmmm. Curious, curious.

[worthful]

Oh also one weird and nostalgia-motivated question, can I re-tool this build for elf or will it gimp it too hard? ;;

That also begs the question.. could I go drow and forgo the Dodge feat.. Hmmmm. Curious, curious.

I'm no expert, but it doesn't seem like going elf would gimp it too hard. you'd lose 1 feat, gain some immunities and saves, and have a trade off (at least on a 32 pt build) losing 1 con and gaining 1 dex:

15 str
16 dex
14 con
12 int
8 wis
12 cha

would be starting. the only thing I'd be worried about is with the con reduction what your max HP would be. but I don't think the difference would be enough to matter.

[ZenAkrua]

I'm no expert, but it doesn't seem like going elf would gimp it too hard. you'd lose 1 feat, gain some immunities and saves, and have a trade off (at least on a 32 pt build) losing 1 con and gaining 1 dex:

15 str
16 dex
14 con
12 int
8 wis
12 cha

would be starting. the only thing I'd be worried about is with the con reduction what your max HP would be. but I don't think the difference would be enough to matter.

The thing I'm concerned about though is losing the human heal amp enhancements and extra skill points.

Also is Superior Weapon Focus Slashing still available or did they nix that in the update?

[worthful]

The thing I'm concerned about though is losing the human heal amp enhancements and extra skill points.

Also is Superior Weapon Focus Slashing still available or did they nix that in the update?

no idea about the weapon focus thing.

but on the other note...thats why humans are awesome with this build. You might be able to change your weapon choice to suit the elf thing better but I think it will still be a drop in DPS overall.

I think the best advice in this thread is MrWizard's from a while back, rephrased:

if elf is whats going to make this game fun for you, then by all means play elf.
edit: unless you're like me, and have a huge problem with always trying to max/min everything I do in MMOs. literally, everything. First character? I'd rather wait 3 weeks to play and make sure he's useful at end game then start playing immediately. Its almost a complex.

my other 2 cents: any place where i've been and my DPS is way lower than anyone else's, i put a shield on and act like i've been "tanking" the whole time and not trying to kill things...so maybe just jump on that boat and cover up when your doing less =D

[rukkerz]

So what would be wrong with a Bastard sword Cannon Fodder build now? They get glancing blows for when you have your shield equipped, On top of it you make it better with the THF line. Now I'd like to see this build set up like that. It's less Dex intensive. When you want to drop your shield and dps you can pick up a falchion or a greatsword. Hell When i was running this though character builder you can take the Weapon Specialize Enchancements for more then 1 weapon. Now am I wrong in the assumption that Glancing blows would be beneficial for tanking as Your Hitting multiple mobs at once and therefore generating agro in an AoE way? With and Without a shield =)

[MrWizard]

So what would be wrong with a Bastard sword Cannon Fodder build now? They get glancing blows for when you have your shield equipped, On top of it you make it better with the THF line. Now I'd like to see this build set up like that. It's less Dex intensive. When you want to drop your shield and dps you can pick up a falchion or a greatsword. Hell When i was running this though character builder you can take the Weapon Specialize Enchancements for more then 1 weapon. Now am I wrong in the assumption that Glancing blows would be beneficial for tanking as Your Hitting multiple mobs at once and therefore generating agro in an AoE way? With and Without a shield =)

you can always do what you want, For a good Ac and reflex I suggest staying with dex.
khopesh is the way to go for this build.

A thf build would be a bit different.... there are many posted out there.