The Cannon Fodder Tank, The Kensai/Stalwart Build

[Hayder]

That heavy fort item is a number 1 priority. If you have not been doing gianthold (where they drop a lot) then go get some tapestries from the orchard and use 20 to get a minos helm. You need that at your level (12) and should have it way before then.

You would be surprised how common a drop it is. I would suggest putting up a thread in the forums for your server asking for a hand. 99% are just vendored and no one would mind giving you one.

Chaosgardes have become rather sparse lately...only saw one on the auction house. Do not pay more than 50k plat for them, I would jump on 20 or 30k right away.

get that heavy fort, it makes ALL THE difference for sure.

Done! with the help of a couple of guildies and a rather big donation of shreds, I ground out the rest of my tapestries and Minos Legens is all mine!

[MrWizard]

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While i have your attention, how do you think he would fare solo on dq2? What would need to be increased/changed/added?

I went in there and played around a while back and I have done it like 4 times (never really liked that raid).

I found it very easy except I did not have a ranged weapon to get her off the ledges far away....not a good one anyway...so after a long bunch of low hit point DR attacks with a throwing axe we fought for a bit and then she went back off...ugh, I just left...

Need a ranged weapon (am building a throwing axe min II soon)...or it may take a while.

[worthful]

Why do you carry both heavy shield and tower shield?

[MrWizard]

Why do you carry both heavy shield and tower shield?

Until you get to really high level, the use of tower shield can be a bit limiting.

Tower shield will lower many skills where a heavy shield will not.

Tower shield gives 2 extra ac, but also causes a -2 to hit. That can be pretty heavy on lower levels, so keeping two is the best thing to do.

For a while I had a few sets of heavy shields with resists and false life on them, just switched them around.

Tower shield is for flat out intim/shield block or shield block/self heal due to the higher ac and the better damage resistance when blocking.

At higher levels, I threw out the heavy shield and just use the tower. (though if I ever get ingredients for another shield ritual, I may look for a stellar heavy shield too)

[worthful]

(though if I ever get ingredients for another shield ritual, I may look for a stellar heavy shield too)

What is this in reference too?

[Emili]

What is this in reference too?

The shield ritual at the stone of change adds another +1 to AC ( 2 Prophecies of Khyber + 6 Silver Flame Hymnals = +1 dodge bonus to AC )

He's referring to a large shield in lue of a tower shield sometimes... I used to use some heavy shields aside from a decent tower shield ... now I only carry the tower one from the hound. Yet was a time I had a nice +5 mithral large of sr 13 and a +5 mithral large of greater fire resist, as both aged I gave them away... I still have the flaming undead bane shield from the desert in the bank somewhere.

[MrWizard]

got a norm one.. have not tried speed running hard or elite yet...at least no recording.


Wait til you see the norm video run... I tried a different method From the second cinderspawn all the way to the door it was just one big triple red alert...even though I was invis. It seems the mobs can see you if there buddies are pounding on you and you are harried.

I could not get the doors open at the end for a while. There were so many bottled up on me there I could not pan out the camera. It was just a huge pile of dudes...I would kill a bunch and still red alert.. It was insane. Still done in 16 minutes though.
I think it was 45 kills that run, about 40 right at that door....

ta da.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnoaT9WH6lQ

[Mangloid]

I'm curious as to your thoughts on the changes to the Fighter capstone. With the change, do you still think staying pure fighter is going to be worth it? For a Flesh and blood fighter wanting AC, I can't see not staying pure. However, Do you feel this will give a distinct advantage to the 2 rogue splash WF fighters similar to Big Rock Candy?

[MrWizard]

I'm curious as to your thoughts on the changes to the Fighter capstone. With the change, do you still think staying pure fighter is going to be worth it? For a Flesh and blood fighter wanting AC, I can't see not staying pure. However, Do you feel this will give a distinct advantage to the 2 rogue splash WF fighters similar to Big Rock Candy?

this build will not really be affected by the next update.

splashing rogue to get evasion makes a AC mess as you woud go robes and ac items...won't get as high...but still viable if you switch out to robes for elementals and such, back to mail in regular...lot of work.

the build and most others will be alright after the update..you gotta watch the doomsayers.

[emptysands]

this build will not really be affected by the next update.

splashing rogue to get evasion makes a AC mess as you woud go robes and ac items...won't get as high...but still viable if you switch out to robes for elementals and such, back to mail in regular...lot of work.

the build and most others will be alright after the update..you gotta watch the doomsayers.

No real way to get good AC as an evasion non-WF fighter/rogue build. Dragontouch leather is a drop in the progression vs Docents+Mithral Body.

I have done some analysis and there is a -4AC swing for non-WF AC/evasion builds when going from Mithral Breastplate to Dragontouch Leather.

[MrWizard]

No real way to get good AC as an evasion non-WF fighter/rogue build. Dragontouch leather is a drop in the progression vs Docents+Mithral Body.

I have done some analysis and there is a -4AC swing for non-WF AC/evasion builds when going from Mithral Breastplate to Dragontouch Leather.

From what I was looking at, robes would be better than leather due to the dex bonus issue among other factors (like switching robes/outfits).

I am thinking of doing one, 2 rogue/18 fighter...but no armor.
However, there is a large ac swing, too large for me..

[emptysands]

From what I was looking at, robes would be better than leather due to the dex bonus issue among other factors (like switching robes/outfits).

I am thinking of doing one, 2 rogue/18 fighter...but no armor.
However, there is a large ac swing, too large for me..

DT Robe is AC6
DT Leather is AC8 (MDB 7)
MBP+5 is AC10 (MDB 5)

With Fighter/Dwarf Armored III you can boost the DT Leather MDB to 10. Meaning with a 30 DEX you can get 18 AC. Even so 30 DEX is general epic level for non-dex builds. Similar AC with MDP+5 and 26 DEX gets 18AC. Although it misses the chance for DT +3 Dodge and other slot savers.

To get the same with Robes you'd need 34 DEX, which is a big ask. 34 DEX probably means: 20 DEX (Elf/Drow) + 2 (Racial Dex) + 6 (item) + 3 (tome) + 3 (exceptional). Or 18 base with +7 (epic) and +4 tome.

One reason why monk splash AC builds work is you can boost AC in robes with both wisdom and dex. Say an easy 24DEX/22WIS gives +14 AC, combined with DT Robes that is 20AC base with room for more with higher dex. Further the same toon with icy +4 dodge, chattering +3 and AC+8 bracer you can get 35AC vs DT Robe with +3 Dodge and Chaosgarde giving 6+3+2+20=31AC and a free ring slot.

To be effective as non-WF light armor AC build you need high stats.

In comparison WF 14F/2Rogue with DT Docent+Mithral Body gets 12AC (MDB 5). With Armor Mastery and Mithral Fludity can boost the MDB to 9 with one feat and 10 with a 2nd. 12 (DT Docent+Mithral Body) + 3 (DT Dodge) + 8 (26DEX) + 2 (Chaosgarde) gives 25AC. Conversely, a DT Full Plate (AC15, MDB 1) toon with SD3+Armor Mastery (MDB+5) and 22 DEX gets 15 (DT Plate) + 6 (DEX) + 3 (DT Dodge) +2 (Chaosgarde) = 26 AC. So +1 AC and a lower DEX requirement, but lose evasion and easy UMD.

Further with epic you have AC15 Mithral body/Epic Red Dragonscale Docent +7 (MDB: 5) vs AC17 Epic Red Dragon Scale Amour +7 (MDB: 2). So even though Red scale Docent is one better in the additional over DT, the MDB on the Dragon Scale makes up the difference and there will still be a +1AC difference with the same equipment.


In either case with Past Life Fighter you can get another +1 MDB, but this applies to all the above toons.

One reason why DDO is fun is there are many options to reach the same goal.

[MrWizard]

DT Robe is AC6
DT Leather is AC8 (MDB 7)
MBP+5 is AC10 (MDB 5)

With Fighter/Dwarf Armored III you can boost the DT Leather MDB to 10. Meaning with a 30 DEX you can get 18 AC. Even so 30 DEX is general epic level for non-dex builds. Similar AC with MDP+5 and 26 DEX gets 18AC. Although it misses the chance for DT +3 Dodge and other slot savers.

To get the same with Robes you'd need 34 DEX, which is a big ask. 34 DEX probably means: 20 DEX (Elf/Drow) + 2 (Racial Dex) + 6 (item) + 3 (tome) + 3 (exceptional). Or 18 base with +7 (epic) and +4 tome.

One reason why monk splash AC builds work is you can boost AC in robes with both wisdom and dex. Say an easy 24DEX/22WIS gives +14 AC, combined with DT Robes that is 20AC base with room for more with higher dex. Further the same toon with icy +4 dodge, chattering +3 and AC+8 bracer you can get 35AC vs DT Robe with +3 Dodge and Chaosgarde giving 6+3+2+20=31AC and a free ring slot.

To be effective as non-WF light armor AC build you need high stats.

In comparison WF 14F/2Rogue with DT Docent+Mithral Body gets 12AC (MDB 5). With Armor Mastery and Mithral Fludity can boost the MDB to 9 with one feat and 10 with a 2nd. 12 (DT Docent+Mithral Body) + 3 (DT Dodge) + 8 (26DEX) + 2 (Chaosgarde) gives 25AC. Conversely, a DT Full Plate (AC15, MDB 1) toon with SD3+Armor Mastery (MDB+5) and 22 DEX gets 15 (DT Plate) + 6 (DEX) + 3 (DT Dodge) +2 (Chaosgarde) = 26 AC. So +1 AC and a lower DEX requirement, but lose evasion and easy UMD.

Further with epic you have AC15 Mithral body/Epic Red Dragonscale Docent +7 (MDB: 5) vs AC17 Epic Red Dragon Scale Amour +7 (MDB: 2). So even though Red scale Docent is one better in the additional over DT, the MDB on the Dragon Scale makes up the difference and there will still be a +1AC difference with the same equipment.


In either case with Past Life Fighter you can get another +1 MDB, but this applies to all the above toons.

One reason why DDO is fun is there are many options to reach the same goal.

Monk got me little but evasion and it looks like the ac stuff is affected by what I am wearing and using in combat....so I did not go there.

Getting 30 dex on a stalwart sounds like epic gear at best... Impossible for the one I was building. Robes and Plate armor mixed depending on needs is best for me.

robes for evasion fights, plate armor for normal battles.

Fact is, with a 24 dex, maybe 25 with rogue splash enhance, I will not get as high whether robes or leather..at least not in any normal non-epic way I can figure out.

But I never finished it all out...yet...we'll see.

but I am gonna do a robes/rogue stalwart....

[Rydlic]

this build will not really be affected by the next update.

splashing rogue to get evasion makes a AC mess as you woud go robes and ac items...won't get as high...but still viable if you switch out to robes for elementals and such, back to mail in regular...lot of work.

the build and most others will be alright after the update..you gotta watch the doomsayers.

Actualy, I think the next update does some to improve this build. Not to epic porportions but the damage over time aspect (not dps) is good if not better when in sword and board mode.

[emptysands]

but I am gonna do a robes/rogue stalwart....

Personally I think this will be tough. The reason why the exploiter works is that the ranger gets both evasion and dex boost from AP. Plus extra skill points per level. So 1 rogue and 1 monk are useful splashes. 18fighter/2rogue will have a tough road boosting DEX high enough to cover the loss from from DT Plate AC15 to DT Robes AC6.

In the first case DT Plate AC15 and 22DEX (MDB6) nets 21 AC points, with the second without anything else DT Robes AC6 needs a massive DEX to even get close. Assuming 18 DEX (human max) +4 (tome) +1 (rogue) +1 (human) +7 (epic item) +3 (exceptional) = 34 DEX.

Let's do an analysis of max gear TR0 builds:

Human Fighter 18/Rogue 2 with:
Chattering +3 dodge [ring]
AC+8 [bracer]
Icy Rainment +4 dodge
DEX34 +12 [epic spectral gloves w/ +1 DEX & +2DEX on 2nd ring (SD)]
= +27 AC

Human Fighter 20 with:
DT Plate AC 15 [MDB 1 + 2 (SD3) +3 (AM3) = 6 => 22 DEX]
DT dodge +3
Chaosgarde +2 dodge [bracers]
DEX22 +6 [16 DEX +2 tome +6item - very easy]
= +26AC {One free ring slot assuming SD ring}

Human Fighter 18/Monk2 with:
Chattering +3 dodge [ring]
AC+8 [bracer]
Icy Rainment +4 dodge
DEX36 +13 [epic spectral gloves w/ +1 DEX & +2DEX on 2nd ring (SD) + 2 (wind)]
WIS30 +10 [16 + 4 tome +1 (human) +1 (monk) +7 (epic helmet item) +1 (exceptional)]
Monk lvl 2 bonus +1
= 39AC
Note: 2 Monk as 1 Rogue or 1 Monk do not get evasion. Not centered when using a shield. So -12 AC from monk bonus and +9 (Epic Kundarak Warding Shield +7) and +6 (blocking) from when using a shield in Block/DR mode.
WIS bonus still applies if using say a Khopesh, but not stance and lvl 2 bonuses.



I might have missed some details, but the monk and rogue robe builds require a lot of epic grind to reach their potential. In fact in the Human 18 fighter/2 rogue case the grind brings the AC boost only just as good as the "moderate" grind for a 20 Fighter.

[Nezichiend]

I would REALLY take power attack. In epic velah, shroud or parts of ToD it can be very beneficial, as well as epics. Your AC will also be very hard to get use out of in epics, so I would take PA. You are a human fighter after all, you should be able to make room for it. Also stunning blow!!! Yes! It is a very good feat and you should definitely have it for epics.

All in all, this build really shines in 6-man non-epics and raid tanker. In epics, there could be some changes to make it really work.

[krud]

but I am gonna do a robes/rogue stalwart....

Why not mith bp? I got the BPoD on my stalwart2 mutt. You only lose out on a few AC vs DT. Sometimes it's worth it for evasion. If they ever fix the epic kundarak suit, it may be something to shoot for.

[emptysands]

Why not mith bp? I got the BPoD on my stalwart2 mutt. You only lose out on a few AC vs DT. Sometimes it's worth it for evasion. If they ever fix the epic kundarak suit, it may be something to shoot for.

Slot saving? If you go MBP+5 (AC13, MDB:3). The only way to make up the difference with DT Leather (AC8, MDB 7) is via DT Dodge +3 and the base 4 pt MDB difference.

[krud]

Slot saving? If you go MBP+5 (AC13, MDB:3). The only way to make up the difference with DT Leather (AC8, MDB 7) is via DT Dodge +3 and the base 4 pt MDB difference.

DT isn't the end all be all of armor. I seem to have enough gear slots on my twf/umd/ftr intimitank with the BPoD, and he's a fairly gear intensive build. Plus, destruction is a nice trait to have on your armor whenever you jump into epic.

[Ricter]

Is this a workable alternative to the proposed AC set? The intention is to cut down on the crafting, while still maintaining as much AC/HP as possible.


Eyes - GS Goggles (+6 CHA Skills, Raise Dead Clickie, Pos/Pos/Pos)
Head - +15 Intimidation
Neck - Stalwart Necklace (+6 CON, LABE, SD)
Trkt - Head of Good Fortune (Good Luck +2)
Back - GS Cloak (+45 HP, Heavy Fort, +5 Prot, Earth/Pos/Earth)
Belt - Open
Ring - Cinder's Band (+6 STR, SD, eCon +1, eCha +2)
Ring - Chattering Ring (+3 Dodge)
Hands - +6 Dex Gloves (+6 DEX)
Boots - Boots of Striding (Striding 30%)
Wrst - Chaosgarde (+2 Dodge)
Armr - DT (Resist +5; +6 CHA; Insight +4; Armor Ritual +1)
Shield - Leviks Defender (+3 Insight AC, 20% threat, Healer's Bounty)