The Cannon Fodder Tank, The Kensai/Stalwart Build

[MrWizard]

only 3 points....

intim
jump
balance
At 8th you should have already eaten a +2 tome, so 4 points, add to UMD if you wish, a couple into tumble.
(until higher level, then do a lesser rez), concentrate on Intim and umd

its hard with only 3...
balance and jump you can somewhat make up for with items, but intim is a must and UMD is the most helpful of all the rest at higher level...

[Quikster]

only 3 points....

intim
jump
balance
At 8th you should have already eaten a +2 tome, so 4 points, add to UMD if you wish, a couple into tumble.
(until higher level, then do a lesser rez), concentrate on Intim and umd

its hard with only 3...
balance and jump you can somewhat make up for with items, but intim is a must and UMD is the most helpful of all the rest at higher level...

Jump caps at 40, so no reason to max it unless you have some strange stick somewhere that tells you it has to be high without a buff.

[x1372]

First of all, thanks for the build and the great comments attached to it. Got started recently on my 32 point character with this basic build, and I'm marvelling at this "AC" thing that I never had before on my cleric, rogue, or bard. Enemies swinging at me and me not taking damage... its madness!

Couple thoughts though. First is, how necessary is the TWF line for being relevant other than as a turtle? For a while at least, I think I'd prefer to stay sword and board, even with that goofy attack animation. What good DPS/effect feats would people recommend for a sword-and-board khopesh user?

Also, I'm not 100% sure on one setup with tomes. If I do decide that the TWF setup is what I want after all (say, at level 16 or so) and eat a +2 DEX tome then, will I be able to redo one of my level 8 or 9 feats to ITWF, or will it have to be a feat I gained after eating the tome? Given that I'll have more limitations on my dex bonus than if I had a fighter past life, I was considering skipping that tome for the time being.

Also, is there a list of the feats that you recommend that are specifically NOT on the fighter bonus feat list? Having a bit of trouble picking which/when to take a few of em.

Finally, is the house D dragonmark of sentinel worth considering at all, or should I not bother? I figure that might make it easier to hit a few of the intim requirements earlier, and for one AP its like getting a second skill focus: intim.

[Quikster]

First of all, thanks for the build and the great comments attached to it. Got started recently on my 32 point character with this basic build, and I'm marvelling at this "AC" thing that I never had before on my cleric, rogue, or bard. Enemies swinging at me and me not taking damage... its madness!

Couple thoughts though. First is, how necessary is the TWF line for being relevant other than as a turtle? For a while at least, I think I'd prefer to stay sword and board, even with that goofy attack animation. What good DPS/effect feats would people recommend for a sword-and-board khopesh user?
None. S&B dps is very low. You can use it for a while at low levels as mobs hp are low as well. I usually use a two hander till I get ITWF myself though.


Also, I'm not 100% sure on one setup with tomes. If I do decide that the TWF setup is what I want after all (say, at level 16 or so) and eat a +2 DEX tome then, will I be able to redo one of my level 8 or 9 feats to ITWF, or will it have to be a feat I gained after eating the tome? Given that I'll have more limitations on my dex bonus than if I had a fighter past life, I was considering skipping that tome for the time being.
Yes you can trade the feats like that so long as the feat you are trading for was taken at a level you met the other requirements for the new feat (bab, min lvl, etc).

Also, is there a list of the feats that you recommend that are specifically NOT on the fighter bonus feat list? Having a bit of trouble picking which/when to take a few of em.

Finally, is the house D dragonmark of sentinel worth considering at all, or should I not bother? I figure that might make it easier to hit a few of the intim requirements earlier, and for one AP its like getting a second skill focus: intim. not sure what you are working to get, or what you started your charisma at, but typically you dont need the dragonmark unless you are going for super high intimi scores. Make sure you have the highest item you can get, and a couple buff pots (heroism, eagles splendor) and you should be ok.

in red.

[MrWizard]

First of all, thanks for the build and the great comments attached to it. Got started recently on my 32 point character with this basic build, and I'm marvelling at this "AC" thing that I never had before on my cleric, rogue, or bard. Enemies swinging at me and me not taking damage... its madness!
Yea, I thought so to. This was my first attempt at an AC build after hearing for so long 'AC does not matter, its no good'. That advice turned out to be wrong.

Couple thoughts though. First is, how necessary is the TWF line for being relevant other than as a turtle? For a while at least, I think I'd prefer to stay sword and board, even with that goofy attack animation. What good DPS/effect feats would people recommend for a sword-and-board khopesh user?
A lot of thought goes into the TWF or THF line. I do use sword and board a ton for sure, but when I am not tanking or in an easier dungeon, it speeds it up. Once you really get good gear (some epic, all shroud, all raid) your AC could be good enough to go without a shield a lot more.. Personally I stay sword and board for a bit into most battles to make sure I can survive and the party is fine. If they are okay, then I will switch.

Also, I'm not 100% sure on one setup with tomes. If I do decide that the TWF setup is what I want after all (say, at level 16 or so) and eat a +2 DEX tome then, will I be able to redo one of my level 8 or 9 feats to ITWF, or will it have to be a feat I gained after eating the tome? Given that I'll have more limitations on my dex bonus than if I had a fighter past life, I was considering skipping that tome for the time being.
Quik's response above covers it quite nicely.

Also, is there a list of the feats that you recommend that are specifically NOT on the fighter bonus feat list? Having a bit of trouble picking which/when to take a few of em.
It is hard to give a list of what is best at what level, it really depends on how you play. Just remember when it says 'class feat' try to find something yellow highlighted. When it is just a regular feat, get one that is not yellow highlighted.
The list of feats presented is where I was at around 20th level, but earlier levels I played with other feats at times...so do not be afraid to try things out if you can afford switching.

Finally, is the house D dragonmark of sentinel worth considering at all, or should I not bother? I figure that might make it easier to hit a few of the intim requirements earlier, and for one AP its like getting a second skill focus: intim.
You will know as you get to 20th if you need this. If in doubt, choose it during the last few levels.

Glad you are enjoying it. Not getting hit everyone second was the coolest thing for me after years of playing and getting plastered all the time (not drunk plastered).

Remember, if you do not plan on going Kensai ever there are lots of feats you could replace with other things (like the weapon focus,spec feats). You could add bullheaded and a ton of other things....don't be afraid to think it out.

[MrWizard]

Just did a sins of attrition on hard, will post it whenever I can get the dang post production done. Very hard due to the 'too high' settings, but quite fun. Tried to show different aspects of the build for new players...but the recording lag was difficult to deal with.

[Rydlic]

Well, now that I'm getting into the 'big boy' area I am starting to notice that a little turtle up Intim goes a very long way to making the quest easy.

1. DQ, no normal because they were unsure, 4 min. She would come the the platform and sit there getting blasted then done.

2. Dreamforge, the final guy likes to move around.. alot. Got my back into a corner and put the shield up, he could not damage me and the other went to town on his back.. although there are still some that need to understand what, "Hit his butt and don't fight in front of me" means.

3. Shroud part 5. Harry comes down, Harry runs at me. Harry stops where I want him. No more chasing or letting fireballs and meteor swarms pound the group until he is in place.


An intim does really make a mediocre group work and make a solid group excel.

I would say that the Shield Mastery Feat are a high must. Depending on how the glancing blow effects work with Dwarf Axes and Bastard sword (ie damage output) a Dwarven Build might end up being almost superior for a non-TR'ed. Taking the THF lines instead of the TWF lines. You still need to get as much dex as you can pull out of you armor and shield so starting at 14 or 15 is still a nessary thing. Your not going to have as high of a char, but should only be 2 points shorter than any other race, and you could have more hp, more blocking DR and more damage with the Dwarf Axes.

[MrWizard]

Well, now that I'm getting into the 'big boy' area I am starting to notice that a little turtle up Intim goes a very long way to making the quest easy.

1. DQ, no normal because they were unsure, 4 min. She would come the the platform and sit there getting blasted then done.

2. Dreamforge, the final guy likes to move around.. alot. Got my back into a corner and put the shield up, he could not damage me and the other went to town on his back.. although there are still some that need to understand what, "Hit his butt and don't fight in front of me" means.

3. Shroud part 5. Harry comes down, Harry runs at me. Harry stops where I want him. No more chasing or letting fireballs and meteor swarms pound the group until he is in place.


An intim does really make a mediocre group work and make a solid group excel.

I would say that the Shield Mastery Feat are a high must. Depending on how the glancing blow effects work with Dwarf Axes and Bastard sword (ie damage output) a Dwarven Build might end up being almost superior for a non-TR'ed. Taking the THF lines instead of the TWF lines. You still need to get as much dex as you can pull out of you armor and shield so starting at 14 or 15 is still a nessary thing. Your not going to have as high of a char, but should only be 2 points shorter than any other race, and you could have more hp, more blocking DR and more damage with the Dwarf Axes.

Now you see why I like it...it is pretty fun being very useful to the party instead of just hanging back swinging and taking tons of damage hoping to survive (like i used to). From mana sponge to solid rock...

The dwarf can still have the same stats due to how it is paid for...but the dwarf will not get the extra skill point per level (which really adds up and something must be dropped due to that).

I am gonna TR my dwarf fighter into a ftr/rog2 and take evasion. At least try to. It is the one thing I am really unhappy with on my toon since I do not have greaves and 45 resist shroud items...fireballs and other things.
My next one will be going after the fire guy in the shroud and running ahead in SoS fire area...I hope.

[Rydlic]

Well... Cap'ed out and took PA.. hehe I know.. I know. This does alow me to switch between CE Sword and board. If in a good group or in an easy quest i can switch to TWF PA mode for hard dps.

Now, Wiz, you and me need to get together so I can get this guy flagged for Tower.

[MrWizard]

Well... Cap'ed out and took PA.. hehe I know.. I know. This does alow me to switch between CE Sword and board. If in a good group or in an easy quest i can switch to TWF PA mode for hard dps.

Now, Wiz, you and me need to get together so I can get this guy flagged for Tower.

always start the playing day with a sins run...and end it with one too....

If we can get brockson and a couple more ac tanks, we can do a crazy red alert speed run through sins elite...that would be awesome

[Jijarine]

After reading the thread, and creating a character to complement it. I decided to make an easy to read DDO Character Planner sheet for this. Its my own take, with all the information gathered, please let me know if I managed to fubar anything so I can fix it.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(20 Fighter) 
Hit Points: 372
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 10
Will: 8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    26
Dexterity            15                    18
Constitution         15                    18
Intelligence         12                    15
Wisdom                8                    11
Charisma             12                    15

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                    15
Bluff                 1                     2
Concentration         2                     4
Diplomacy             1                     2
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                1                     2
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                  2                     4
Intimidate            5                    37
Jump                  6                    18
Listen               -1                     0
Move Silently         2                     4
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     2
Search                1                     2
Spot                 -1                     0
Swim                  2                    12
Tumble                3.5                  15
Use Magic Device      2.5                  16.5

Level 1 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 5 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II


Level 7 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Human Versatility II


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate III


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery III


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Swim (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Weapon Alacrity
Enhancement: Fighter Armored Agility I
Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specialization II

So, as a complete noob (been playing maybe two months now), hows that look?

[MrWizard]

build looks fine, I just checked the feats and starting stats...they looked fine.

You will be good.

Just remember every couple levels look for
1) higher '+' armor
2) higher resistance/save items
3) higher to hit/magic damage weapons
4) protection items with higher 'to hits'
5) fortification items
6 Stat '+' items

and enjoy the ride.....

[Ybbald]

Why do people put tomes in the character planner they won't have?
+1 and then +3 for all stats? X_x

I haven't played my fighter much since I just got Gianthold and I've been wanting to explore it. So since I haven't used any tomes yet, I might reroll with 13 base int so a +1 tome gets me to 14 for an extra skill point per level allowing me to max umd and still have points for tumble and jump and balance

You just need one rank in tumble to get the benefits from a tumble item or spell, right? So while in defensive stance, you could take striders boots off and put on tumbling boots

[Quikster]

Why do people put tomes in the character planner they won't have?
+1 and then +3 for all stats? X_x

I haven't played my fighter much since I just got Gianthold and I've been wanting to explore it. So since I haven't used any tomes yet, I might reroll with 13 base int so a +1 tome gets me to 14 for an extra skill point per level allowing me to max umd and still have points for tumble and jump and balance

You just need one rank in tumble to get the benefits from a tumble item or spell, right? So while in defensive stance, you could take striders boots off and put on tumbling boots

I put tomes i havent acquired on a separate list to show potential myself. I started my last fighter with +2's for every stat and a +3 int tome, so I included those in my build.

Builds do need to be examined by player that would play them to make sure they can get tomes needed. My next build is going to be a tr of my cleric. I have +4 cha, +3 str and +3 dex for it, and will have at least +2's in the rest of the stats. So if I were to post that build I would include those. If you were to read it and think about making it you would need to take that into consideration.

The good news is when you decide to post builds, you can post it with no tomes at all. In fact, you can post it naked with no gear if you like Kinda kinky huh?


As far as tumble goes you will need enough to get to a pos mod with the penalties you will incur from armor/shields. If an item covers that, groovy.

[Hayder]

Just a quick update. I restarted and followed your feat progression and spookily chose almost the same enhancements as Jijarine. Now level 3 and after passing some slightly better stuff down from my higher level character have been really enjoying the build. I'm still getting hit but nowhere near as much as my other characters. I have a feeling this will be my first level 20!

Great build!

EDIT: Just a quick question, does Fighter Toughness and Racial Toughness stack? I assume it does as Jijarine posted it in their build but just wanted to check.

[MrWizard]

Just a quick update. I restarted and followed your feat progression and spookily chose almost the same enhancements as Jijarine. Now level 3 and after passing some slightly better stuff down from my higher level character have been really enjoying the build. I'm still getting hit but nowhere near as much as my other characters. I have a feeling this will be my first level 20!

Great build!

EDIT: Just a quick question, does Fighter Toughness and Racial Toughness stack? I assume it does as Jijarine posted it in their build but just wanted to check.

toughness feat gives you hit points and opens up both fighter toughness and racial toughness.
They all stack.

Don't forget there are things that can increase your ac....

1) keep a heavy shield and a tower shield handy. Tower gives you +2 assuming both shields are the same '+'. Tower should give some more DR too if blocking is needed.
Find highest '+' you can for your level.

2) if you have not reached your max dex bonus, get pots for dex called cat's grace (expensive) or house p buff (lasts 30 minutes)

3) barkskin and shield of faith pots will each give +3 for a total of +6 for about 6 minutes or so. A cleric will probably cast faith, and if you have a ranger nearby that covers the bark.

4) find protection +1, +2, +3 items if you can.

The pots can be expensive, so just use them for important battles. If you are really getting hit, pop on your shield.
You can also move backwards (or forwards) while fighting which should give the mobs some minuses to hit (we hope).
Try not to get surrounded if getting pounded, put your back up against something, they get better 'to hits' when coming from the side or behind.

Use trip even if it fails a lot...just use it.

At 6 you get your first stalwart enhancement....that will feel real good.

[MrWizard]

oh yea....and check your combat log out...

even if something misses you, it can still land a grazing hit...Nothing can stop that from happening.

It can be mitigated by 'Damage reduction' which you will start getting at higher levels (and things like stoneskin are great too)

[worthful]

Use trip even if it fails a lot...just use it..

Why? =\

New Update = 7th level, hit 49 AC. Ran elite Gwylans and the only thing that did damage to me were spells, or when I got tripped by minos. Ran the dungeon by me intim + shield blocking, DPS took care of the rest. it was great

[Quikster]

Why? =\

New Update = 7th level, hit 49 AC. Ran elite Gwylans and the only thing that did damage to me were spells, or when I got tripped by minos. Ran the dungeon by me intim + shield blocking, DPS took care of the rest. it was great

Because fighters arent clickie based, so having one or two attacks to spam arent that big of a deal, and mobs can always roll a 1...

[MrWizard]

Trip, Why? =\

New Update = 7th level, hit 49 AC. Ran elite Gwylans and the only thing that did damage to me were spells, or when I got tripped by minos. Ran the dungeon by me intim + shield blocking, DPS took care of the rest. it was great

As quik said, it is always a shot at doing it.
I do sins of attrition (way too much) on my 20th level... On any difficulty I will use trip in battles versus devils and even on elite, with no special skills or points to it, will trip them.

On lower levels this is extremely useful, especially to the poster who said he was getting hit a bit...just a way to make it better.


49 AC...yea, that is enough to be okay into gianthold at levels 10-14....lol, you are ahead of the curve big time.
Fun ain't it?
Everyone else is sweating and you are just like 'come on, its only a few here, lets bring them with us and press on' and they are like 'are you crazy'?


It took me years to get one, and it was total luck, but again....get a banishing rapier asap.
8 or 10 is the minimum if you can get one with nothing on it.
You will be able to waltz through threnal for awesome xp and no problems...and many dungeons with flensers, mephits, reavers, earth elementals, etc..

and in the vale, you will rock.

You may never find one, but it is worth asking people about...they might sell it to you. Or trade for it. Or take pity on you.
Go to the forums for your server, look in the marketplace, and ask/beg/plead/cry and get one.


Now, it is easy to get into the intim/shield block. However after the intim is cast, try taking swings, trips, sunder, etc and as long as you do not take too much damage, unload on them too.
Firewalls are great to sit in also.

If you are fighting and taking some damage I usually hit shield block right as I intim (since you pause when doing so, opening yourself to attack) and wait a second for it to go off, then continue swinging.
If you are taking massive damage when doing that, just stay turtled.

Elite gwylans at 7th, as a main tank, holding all aggro..that is cool. I bet the cleric LOVED you.
And that is the best part of the build...Clerics will be like 'oh, I don't wanna do that quest...oh wait, worthful is in there, ok I'll do it since it won't cost me anything'