The Cannon Fodder Tank, The Kensai/Stalwart Build

[MrWizard]

Well got my guy to 18, and as he is Bastard Sword Using (has been and will be) i'm all a twitter with the upcomming changes. I'll be honest, when it hits i'm gonna drop all the TWF and get all the THF feats. No, it may not be the most uber but i will not have to take off my shield (and it might free up some space).

I do love how this guy can just dig in and slowly stomp through and entire quest, speeding up as help is added.

bout time you got there. Good hound tank too man.

Gonna have to take you out into some elite sins of attrition soon to blood your new ac toon.
Wish quik was on our server. He appears he could have been xoriat..i mean thelanis forged.


TWF does have one thing that makes it rather cool, but you do not need all the feats for it, just the first one to make it work okay. And that is the use of multi types of weapons to do all sorts of things at once from stat damage to paralyze to etc..

I also seem to notice a little glancing blow damage popping out now and then which I don't understand for I don't believe that is supposed to happen, but I see it.

I would at least keep one TWF just to keep the - to hit down. At least until you got some good greensteel THF weapons.

18....only like 1,000,000 experience points to cap....

[Hayder]

Well, I've just read through the entire thread, watched some of the videos and have started my own Cannon Fodder Tank. I only have a 32 point build but have specced as per your recommendations. However, when I get to feat and enhancement choice, I fall down. I am very new to DDO (2-3 weeks) and am trying desperately to learn the game but am really struggling to understand what levels I should take the relevant feats/enhancements. At creation, I took Dodge, Weapon Prof: Kopesh and Fighter: Intim (I think, it was Intimidate something). I also took True Neutral as my alignment. Is this a good start or did I miss a must have skill anywhere? I'll be using my +1 tomes at level 3 and will take CE as soon as I can afterwards.

I've got to say though, that beyond this I'm struggling, I appreciate you need to ensure you have all the correct feats for SD but is there any recommended order in which to take them? Also, I don't suppose anyone has done a DDO planner build for this character that they would mind sharing?

[MrWizard]

Well, I've just read through the entire thread, watched some of the videos and have started my own Cannon Fodder Tank. I only have a 32 point build but have specced as per your recommendations. However, when I get to feat and enhancement choice, I fall down. I am very new to DDO (2-3 weeks) and am trying desperately to learn the game but am really struggling to understand what levels I should take the relevant feats/enhancements. At creation, I took Dodge, Weapon Prof: Kopesh and Fighter: Intim (I think, it was Intimidate something). I also took True Neutral as my alignment. Is this a good start or did I miss a must have skill anywhere? I'll be using my +1 tomes at level 3 and will take CE as soon as I can afterwards.

I've got to say though, that beyond this I'm struggling, I appreciate you need to ensure you have all the correct feats for SD but is there any recommended order in which to take them? Also, I don't suppose anyone has done a DDO planner build for this character that they would mind sharing?

Being new is part of that struggle. It takes quite a while to get the basics down. With the way the feat system is it takes many levels to get all your feats.

Here is just one of the ways I would go to start...Fact is there is a lot of stuff to choose from but it takes forever to get them all.
As you go along you will find you want more of this or that and should choose accordingly.

Below is a list without the past life feat(s) added. I used power attack but you could put anything in there.
It is important when selecting your feats to try to make sure you pick a yellow highlight for a class feat and a non yellow highlight for a regular feat as best you can or you may find a level where none of these may be available.

Your main focus is AC and surviving while doing dps..

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge AC
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness HP
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting DPS

Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh (your weapon of choice)

Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise

Level 5 (Fighter)

Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery

Level 7 (Fighter)

Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons

Level 11 (Fighter)

Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate

Level 13 (Fighter)

Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery

Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

Level 17 (Fighter)

Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device

Level 19 (Fighter)

Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


things like UMD focus can be later, much later. You can always respec (easiest to start as a veteran at level 4.....6 feats to choose from.)

Power attack can be anything, and can be taken earlier (improved trip, stun, or any of the other things I listed under feats).
It is hard to give you an exact way as it depends on what you are doing. If you are going to be tanking raids at 16, the the shield, intim, and such would be of higher priority.


ANy help we can offer we will. What server are youon?

[Hayder]

Thanks for that MrWizard, much appreciated. I'm going to start again as he's only level 2. I don't have vet status yet so will do it the old fashioned way!

Currently playing on Cannith as I joined a few of my old PnP buddies and found that I'm really enjoying the game and decided to set some goals. I normally play a DPS caster in other games so I thought I'd try mixing it up in DDO and go for something totally different. My intention is to get to tank some of the raids so we'll see how I progress.

Thanks again for your help.

[MrWizard]

Thanks for that MrWizard, much appreciated. I'm going to start again as he's only level 2. I don't have vet status yet so will do it the old fashioned way!

Currently playing on Cannith as I joined a few of my old PnP buddies and found that I'm really enjoying the game and decided to set some goals. I normally play a DPS caster in other games so I thought I'd try mixing it up in DDO and go for something totally different. My intention is to get to tank some of the raids so we'll see how I progress.

Thanks again for your help.

well, as you go, remember that ac and hp don't hurt when not sure, so use those feats at that time.

Damage reduction is always good when not sure too.

Throw in the DPS as you go.

Intim and umd you can get whenever. Intim is good early, but a good intim item helps for that. In most cases you should be able to intim okay.

It just takes a long time to learn how to play. And you have no breadth of experience to know if you are doing really good or really bad right now. It is a tough game when you start.

You know you are doing good in those early pugs if something goes wrong and you are one of the last ones standing....

[Ybbald]

How would halfling do?
It's -4 to intimidate from size compared to human but you did a dwarf build so I'm guessing it's not a huge deal.
It's also +1 ac and saves that's on all the time vs human versatility which is limited
Plus you can spend a few aps to get a little boost to saves

also, would it be possible to still make a good ac tank without 32 point builds, the best named gear and pots from the ddo store?
I'm f2p so I only have vale. I have close to enough for gainthold next time it comes on sale and I'm going to start doing the 100 favor grind soon.

[MrWizard]

How would halfling do?
It's -4 to intimidate from size compared to human but you did a dwarf build so I'm guessing it's not a huge deal.
It's also +1 ac and saves that's on all the time vs human versatility which is limited
Plus you can spend a few aps to get a little boost to saves

also, would it be possible to still make a good ac tank without 32 point builds, the best named gear and pots from the ddo store?
I'm f2p so I only have vale. I have close to enough for gainthold next time it comes on sale and I'm going to start doing the 100 favor grind soon.

yea, I posted the stats for a 28 pointer on there.
Its a litte less here and there, but you will still be awesome.

And hey....all you have to do is invest in a lesser reincarnation and I think he is 32 then...though not sure.. Eventually you will get the favor or buy the 32 point option, so you can always lesser reincarnate later on.

go for it and enjoy

[Ybbald]

You need greater reincarnation or true reincarntion.

I noticed in your videos it looked like the game was telling you you were not proficient with your weapons. Did you dump khopesh proficiency because the -4 penalty to hit was negligible?
You also didn't take oversized TWF which is another -2 to hit
but you did take greater weapon focus for +2 to hit for kensai
how often do you find yourself switching to kensai?

weapon focus is +1, so the GWF is just +1 to hit
OTWF would be equivalent to +2 to hit by removing the penalty so it'd be better if no need for kensai


edit:
I think somewhere that the TWF defense feat +1 bonus to Ac does not count as a shield bonus so while TWF'ing you could use a shield clickie for an extra +4 to ac. Is that correct?

As, on your ac breakdown on the first page I noticed there is no protection from evil or deflection bonus. Shield of faith from a lvl 18 cleric is +5 ac and the protection from evil is bugged so it gives a +2 sacred bonus to ac.


edit again:
for your "Things you wish you had, but depend on party or other factors" section of the ac breakdown you don't have
http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhan...s_Companion_IV

edit again:
nevermind, I see that protection is a deflection bonus to ac

[MrWizard]

You need greater reincarnation or true reincarntion.

I noticed in your videos it looked like the game was telling you you were not proficient with your weapons. Did you dump khopesh proficiency because the -4 penalty to hit was negligible?

I made a trip pos healing weapon, but only had the stuff to make a kama, so I switch to that to heal up (123% with everything, get a good 40 to 60 from a pot) then switch back.

You also didn't take oversized TWF which is another -2 to hit
but you did take greater weapon focus for +2 to hit for kensai
how often do you find yourself switching to kensai?

I never switched yet, I do not have the superior feat, however I thought it was a good way to add that one feat and then switch back and forth if you wanted towith kensai. It was a good way for someone to easily try out either...and the needed feats for kensai make up the +/- to hit stuff quite well and add some damage.
These feats are not really needed though for the build.

weapon focus is +1, so the GWF is just +1 to hit
OTWF would be equivalent to +2 to hit by removing the penalty so it'd be better if no need for kensai
True, but so far I have not had an issue hitting anything. I did have this earlier on the first version of the guy.


edit:
I think somewhere that the TWF defense feat +1 bonus to Ac does not count as a shield bonus so while TWF'ing you could use a shield clickie for an extra +4 to ac. Is that correct?

yes, and do all the time. Makes the loss of 10 AC by not using a shield only 6..with twf defense it becomes 5.


As, on your ac breakdown on the first page I noticed there is no protection from evil or deflection bonus. Shield of faith from a lvl 18 cleric is +6 ac and the protection from evil is bugged so it gives a +2 sacred bonus to ac.

+5 protection is deflection/sheild of faith, etc.


edit again:
for your "Things you wish you had, but depend on party or other factors" section of the ac breakdown you don't have
http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhan...s_Companion_IV

true on dat, dang halflings

[Rydlic]

bout time you got there. Good hound tank too man.

Bah, I dont think I did that great but time will tell.

Gonna have to take you out into some elite sins of attrition soon to blood your new ac toon.

Sooner the better

TWF does have one thing that makes it rather cool, but you do not need all the feats for it, just the first one to make it work okay. And that is the use of multi types of weapons to do all sorts of things at once from stat damage to paralyze to etc..

I also seem to notice a little glancing blow damage popping out now and then which I don't understand for I don't believe that is supposed to happen, but I see it.

I would at least keep one TWF just to keep the - to hit down. At least until you got some good greensteel THF weapons.

I have a few barbs, bot THF weapons abound on my acct. Now I have two barbarians, one has all the THF feats and the other does not. The difference on glancing blow damage is night and day. The one with will glance for 20-30 + Special proc effects (70%, frenzy increases this), the one without glances for 10-15 + special procs (10-15%). Damage out put is huge for the full line. I am guessing that the glancing on my Tank build doing sword and board will be around 15-22 (40-50% proc). This might not equal out to the same damage as TWF but the damage mitigation through having a shield on and having my StalDEf damage reduction going + the AC my well make up for that. I am more than willing to test this, so we can talk after the mod.

[MrWizard]

Be nice to get you, brock, and other thelanis AC tanks and go do a Vod where we can just surround him and beat on him until he goes up top, then turn around and kill the thrash mobs...
1 fvs, 1 rogue, 10 ac tanks

(a fvs that can handle any trash that comes his/her way, or get away from them)

IT would be nice to not have to intim, wait, or break off, but just beat him down non stop...

[Quikster]

Be nice to get you, brock, and other thelanis AC tanks and go do a Vod where we can just surround him and beat on him until he goes up top, then turn around and kill the thrash mobs...
1 fvs, 1 rogue, 10 ac tanks

(a fvs that can handle any trash that comes his/her way, or get away from them)

IT would be nice to not have to intim, wait, or break off, but just beat him down non stop...

1 Rogue? Pffft takes to long to disable traps. Just find a cubby when the bats come out and kill bats and devils in there. Also you should do an all fighter run, leave the fvs at home

We did a no cleric hound a few weeks back. We did take a bard. Done all cleric hound as well when the cap was 16(had a ton of loot drop in that run for some reason). I say grab some heal scrolls and youre dw clickies and go all fighter

[Quikster]

Bah, I dont think I did that great but time will tell.

Sooner the better


I have a few barbs, bot THF weapons abound on my acct. Now I have two barbarians, one has all the THF feats and the other does not. The difference on glancing blow damage is night and day. The one with will glance for 20-30 + Special proc effects (70%, frenzy increases this), the one without glances for 10-15 + special procs (10-15%). Damage out put is huge for the full line. I am guessing that the glancing on my Tank build doing sword and board will be around 15-22 (40-50% proc). This might not equal out to the same damage as TWF but the damage mitigation through having a shield on and having my StalDEf damage reduction going + the AC my well make up for that. I am more than willing to test this, so we can talk after the mod.

Its prolly going to depend where your ac is. If you can get it high enough twf then you gain nothing by wearing a shield.

Im sure there is a nice little sweet spot to be found, but personally i hate the thf and s&b attack animation, so I try to avoid using a shield if at all possible.

[Rydlic]

Its prolly going to depend where your ac is. If you can get it high enough twf then you gain nothing by wearing a shield.

Im sure there is a nice little sweet spot to be found, but personally i hate the thf and s&b attack animation, so I try to avoid using a shield if at all possible.

The animation is silly, but not as bad as humans running... I mean seariously, what is shoved where??

Saving my TP now, may even purchase some. My wife on the otherhand is thrilled, she has started a fighter dwarf and is sticking to Dwarf Axes as she can't get anything off the AH as of yet.

[Quikster]

The animation is silly, but not as bad as humans running... I mean seariously, what is shoved where??

Saving my TP now, may even purchase some. My wife on the otherhand is thrilled, she has started a fighter dwarf and is sticking to Dwarf Axes as she can't get anything off the AH as of yet.

Yeah i dunno why running anime doesnt bother me. Lots of people have issues with halflings or humans, but doesnt seem to make a difference to me. If you cant stand it though, for sure dont make one

[Ybbald]

ok I've got a problem here:

With 12 base int on a halfling fighter i get 3 points per level
1 for intimidate
2 for tumble
2 for UMD
2 for balance
1 for jump

I don't have nearly enough points per level
should I just drop umd? I will admit it is very useful but I can just get a group. And with it being cross class, it'll be hard to get it high enough

and there is always boot of tumbling and jump clickies to help make up for the lack of ranks a bit

[Quikster]

ok I've got a problem here:

With 12 base int on a halfling fighter i get 3 points per level
1 for intimidate
2 for tumble
2 for UMD
2 for balance
1 for jump

I don't have nearly enough points per level
should I just drop umd? I will admit it is very useful but I can just get a group. And with it being cross class, it'll be hard to get it high enough

and there is always boot of tumbling and jump clickies to help make up for the lack of ranks a bit

The suggested skills in this build are for human, who get xtra skill points.

Intim needs to be maxed if you plan on intimidating. You are already taking a size penalty with you're race.

Balance I like so when you get knocked down you get up quick. Nothing worse than a so called tank squirming on his back like a bug waiting to be stepped on.

Tumble you only need enough to tumble in full plate (after penalties)

Jump should be about 10 after penalties so you can use an amrath clickie (15 min) to max it at 40.

[Ybbald]

ok thanks

[Gyries]

How would halfling do?
It's -4 to intimidate from size compared to human but you did a dwarf build so I'm guessing it's not a huge deal.
It's also +1 ac and saves that's on all the time vs human versatility which is limited
Plus you can spend a few aps to get a little boost to saves

also, would it be possible to still make a good ac tank without 32 point builds, the best named gear and pots from the ddo store?
I'm f2p so I only have vale. I have close to enough for gainthold next time it comes on sale and I'm going to start doing the 100 favor grind soon.

I think Dwarves are medium, so do not suffer the -4 penalty. You can also boost saves via enchantment line with them. I did just fine as an AC tank using a 28 point build through most content, though I did finally Greater Reincarnate to get to 32 points and the right stat distribution after tomes. All my gear was found as I leveled or saved for and purchased, only store purchase was the Druidic Heart. Another of note ability is for halflings is the increase to damage through the guile line when not tanking. You may also have some fun with the healing Dragonmarks.

[Quikster]

I think Dwarves are medium, so do not suffer the -4 penalty. You can also boost saves via enchantment line with them. I did just fine as an AC tank using a 28 point build through most content, though I did finally Greater Reincarnate to get to 32 points and the right stat distribution after tomes. All my gear was found as I leveled or saved for and purchased, only store purchase was the Druidic Heart. Another of note ability is for halflings is the increase to damage through the guile line when not tanking. You may also have some fun with the healing Dragonmarks.

Correct dwarves do not suffer -4. It is possible to get your intim high enough to intimidate everything on a 1 as a halfling. My human can get well above the needed mark with only 3 coming from human only stuff. It is definitely more difficult however.