Is Wielding Sword and Dagger Viable?

[TheKeeper1981]

Heyla and well met!

I'm trying to build a cleric to help support my husband as he builds up his own characters (my main character, a monk, is level 8, while most of his are barely level 4; when I ask him, he'll very happily switch to his own level 7 cleric to help me out on my own quests, so I'd very much like to return the favor), but I've never used a cleric, before, just a ranger, a monk, and (on very few occasions) a rogue. For the sake of maintaining my interest in this character, I was thinking that I may want to try a build inspired by a character from a Mercedes Lackey novel, a priestess who wielded sword and dagger on the battlefield. However, I have no idea how well such an idea might work in DDO practice. I'm hoping for advice from the more experienced cleric players, here, as my husband simply gave me a very blank look before giving me this puzzled shrug when I suggested this idea to him (yes, we're both fairly new to DDO, although he's more adventurous when experimenting with new classes; me, I enjoyed my ranger, but when I bought the monk class after a week of playing, I never looked back!).

For reference, I have access to 32-point build characters and the monk class. I do not have access to Drow, Warforged, or Favored Soul. Humans are very much my preferred race.

Thank you, greatly, for any and all assistance!

TheKeeper1981

[captain1z]

There are a few ways you could do it and many of them need the spell "Divine Power" to be successful.

First the 2 weapon fighting feat needs to be added to a cleric, you can do that with either a dex of 15 or splashing 2 levels of ranger...... but I wouldnt do both.

A human gets an extra feat so thats an option


and an elf gets bonuses with longswords so dagger (or kukri) and longsword become an option.

make sure you dont sacrifice con or cripple your ability to heal.

best option imo is

high str, low dex cleric 18/ ranger 2.

with divine power and other cleric buffs you should be able to fight well in short spurts.


the 1337 option would be cleric 18/ monk 2 high AC via dex and wisdom using kamas and evasion (elf, halfling or human)

[TheKeeper1981]

There are a few ways you could do it and many of them need the spell "Divine Power" to be successful.

First the 2 weapon fighting feat needs to be added to a cleric, you can do that with either a dex of 15 or splashing 2 levels of ranger...... but I wouldnt do both.

A human gets an extra feat so thats an option


and an elf gets bonuses with longswords so dagger (or kukri) and longsword become an option.

make sure you dont sacrifice con or cripple your ability to heal.

best option imo is

high str, low dex cleric 18/ ranger 2.

with divine power and other cleric buffs you should be able to fight well in short spurts.


the 1337 option would be cleric 18/ monk 2 high AC via dex and wisdom using kamas and evasion (elf, halfling or human)

Hm... I really, really love the monk class. The extra AC from wisdom seems to really compliment the fact that I need a high wisdom stat, anyhow, as a cleric. However, the ranger/cleric combo looks really nice, as it means fewer things for me to worry about, as a beginner in the cleric class. I'll likely go with the latter option. How low is low dex, and how high is high str? Something like 16 str and 10 dex?

Thanks for your input! Much appreciated!

[captain1z]

as a cleric 18/ranger 2 going

str 16 (6 item) 22
dex 10
con 14 (6 item) 20
wis 18 (3 class, 5 level ups, 6 item) 32
int 8
cha 8

seems ok to me as ranger gets you 2 weapon anyway. Divine power gives you the BAB of a fighter so we are talking +26 to hit at 20th before buffs and weapons and 31-40 after (standard fighter would have +30 so you are 4 behind). Plate and hvy fort would be the order of the day and you would need to watch your aggro but you would be a fully capable cleric as well. An elf with a longsword or scimitar and a short sword would have a better to-hit but a human could have an extra feat for improved critical or toughness both of which would be of use to you. Empowered healing, extend, mental toughness & improved mental toughness are all good feats.


as a 18 cleric/2 monk going

str 12 (6 item) 18
dex 14 (6 item, 1 level up, 1 tome) 22
con 14 (6 item) 20
int 8
wis 17 (3 class, 4 level up, 6 item) 30
cha 8

gives you a +16 to your base 10 AC for 26 +5 (pro item) 31 +4-8 (armored bracers) 35-39 add barkskin pot +3 = 38-42 + shroud item = 42-46 ....base AC minimal effort with no help from paladins, rangers or bards but you could hit AC 60 ish. 2weapon fighting, toughness, dodge, empowered healing, mental toughness, improved mental toughness and extend are all possible feats to take. Damage with kamas is not great at all................ the 2 classes have synergy but are highly dependant on gear and low on dps.

Tough choices........... I'd talk it over with guildies/friends or just do your homework. Make sure you can have fun with whatever you make.

[TheKeeper1981]

as a cleric 18/ranger 2 going

str 16 (6 item) 22
dex 10
con 14 (6 item) 20
wis 18 (3 class, 5 level ups, 6 item) 32
int 8
cha 8

seems ok to me as ranger gets you 2 weapon anyway. Divine power gives you the BAB of a fighter so we are talking +26 to hit at 20th before buffs and weapons and 31-40 after (standard fighter would have +30 so you are 4 behind). Plate and hvy fort would be the order of the day and you would need to watch your aggro but you would be a fully capable cleric as well. An elf with a longsword or scimitar and a short sword would have a better to-hit but a human could have an extra feat for improved critical or toughness both of which would be of use to you. Empowered healing, extend, mental toughness & improved mental toughness are all good feats.


as a 18 cleric/2 monk going

str 12 (6 item) 18
dex 14 (6 item, 1 level up, 1 tome) 22
con 14 (6 item) 20
int 8
wis 17 (3 class, 4 level up, 6 item) 30
cha 8

gives you a +16 to your base 10 AC for 26 +5 (pro item) 31 +4-8 (armored bracers) 35-39 add barkskin pot +3 = 38-42 + shroud item = 42-46 ....base AC minimal effort with no help from paladins, rangers or bards but you could hit AC 60 ish. 2weapon fighting, toughness, dodge, empowered healing, mental toughness, improved mental toughness and extend are all possible feats to take. Damage with kamas is not great at all................ the 2 classes have synergy but are highly dependant on gear and low on dps.

Tough choices........... I'd talk it over with guildies/friends or just do your homework. Make sure you can have fun with whatever you make.

I feel kinda proud that my build for my ranger cleric is actually pretty close to yours (I gave her 16 wis, and 12 int; I'm not sure why, but I'm really obssessing over skill points; I figure I'll eventuallly get over it, but until then, I figure I gotta go with it, until I learn I can live without it). I feel like I'm actually learning the game. I've got the character slots to play around with both build types, and figure out which one I enjoy playing best. Thank you, so much, for taking the time to give me a really great place to start!

[Tumarek]

Yeah either ranger or Fighter to get access to the 2 weapon fighting feats and sword proficency. human fits good because if you want all 3 feats (2wf i2wf g2wf) youll be low on the cleric ones.

If you decide to take all of them (-> do good damage in combat) you need a dex of 15 for the first one and a dex of 17 for the last 2 feats.

if you dont want to be too melee focused just stay pure cleric, take the enhancement Follower of the Silver Flame I (http://ddowiki.com/page/Cleric_enhancements) and the two weapon fighting feat. That give you some melee damage and you can be a full caster.

starting stats could be like this for the pure caster:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page


                  Starting          
Abilities        Base Stats         
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          
Strength             10             
Dexterity            15             
Constitution         14             
Intelligence          8             
Wisdom               16             
Charisma             14             

or swap the charisman for the strength... depends what you like more

[TheKeeper1981]

Yeah either ranger or Fighter to get access to the 2 weapon fighting feats and sword proficency. human fits good because if you want all 3 feats (2wf i2wf g2wf) youll be low on the cleric ones.

If you decide to take all of them (-> do good damage in combat) you need a dex of 15 for the first one and a dex of 17 for the last 2 feats.

if you dont want to be too melee focused just stay pure cleric, take the enhancement Follower of the Silver Flame I (http://ddowiki.com/page/Cleric_enhancements) and the two weapon fighting feat. That give you some melee damage and you can be a full caster.

starting stats could be like this for the pure caster:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page


                  Starting          
Abilities        Base Stats         
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          
Strength             10             
Dexterity            15             
Constitution         14             
Intelligence          8             
Wisdom               16             
Charisma             14             

or swap the charisman for the strength... depends what you like more

Ah! Thank you for some alternative considerations! Still playing around with the builds, and it's always nice to have more options that will help me find what works best, for me!

[Kriogen]

Human, 32 point build.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Female
(2 Monk \ 18 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 262
Spell Points: 1226 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 12
Will: 22

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    16
Dexterity            16                    17
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               16                    26
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                     9
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         6                    25
Diplomacy            -1                     0
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                     0
Heal                  3                     8
Hide                  3                     3
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  5                     6
Listen                3                     8
Move Silently         3                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                  3                     8
Swim                  2                     3
Tumble                4                     4
Use Magic Device      1                    10

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Cleric)


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 16 (Cleric)


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing III
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Disciple of Breezes
Enhancement: Disciple of Puddles
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery IV

No need for Fighter or Ranger. Follower of the Sovereign Host grants you Longsword. Go dual Longsword. Use Power Attack at higher levels, not at 1.

Nothing special, but will work fine. Even so fine you can "skip" husband

Build needs +1 Dex tome before level 9.

[TheKeeper1981]

Human, 32 point build.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Female
(2 Monk \ 18 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 262
Spell Points: 1226 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 12
Will: 22

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    16
Dexterity            16                    17
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               16                    26
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                     9
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         6                    25
Diplomacy            -1                     0
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                     0
Heal                  3                     8
Hide                  3                     3
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  5                     6
Listen                3                     8
Move Silently         3                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                  3                     8
Swim                  2                     3
Tumble                4                     4
Use Magic Device      1                    10

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Cleric)


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 16 (Cleric)


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing III
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Disciple of Breezes
Enhancement: Disciple of Puddles
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery IV

No need for Fighter or Ranger. Follower of the Sovereign Host grants you Longsword. Go dual Longsword. Use Power Attack at higher levels, not at 1.

Nothing special, but will work fine. Even so fine you can "skip" husband

Build needs +1 Dex tome before level 9.

Hm... That sounds kinda like what was suggested, earlier. Seeing it, this way, it might be doable... I'll give this build a try, too! Thanks!

EDIT:

Would wrapping my Cleric in full plate defeat the purpose of adding in the monk class?

[Kalanth]

Would wrapping my Cleric in full plate defeat the purpose of adding in the monk class?

Yes. You would no longer get the benefit of the Wis bonus to AC if you did that. Your best bet is just to rock some fancy robes or outfits and get things like the Chattering Ring to boost AC further.

Another option for the cleric is Cleric 16 / Paladin 2 / Monk 2. With a starting Dex of 15 you can get TWF in the beginning and go from there. The character may not be the greatest melee in the world, and it can be a tough build overall to pull off, but done right you would have outstanding saves, high AC, and able to heal rather well with 16 levels of Cleric (the level 9 spells are nice but nothing to write home about). if you go Human you will have 8 feets to use to build the character. That should be enough to at least grab Empower, Maximize, and Extend. Work the Dex up with a proper +2 Dex tome to a 17 and you could potentially squeeze in the other TWF feets as well.

** Complicated routes like this can be item intesive as well. Things like a +5 resistance item (i.e. Boots of the Innocent) would be needed to really make the character shine bright. **

[TheKeeper1981]

That makes sense, and I'm used to wearing robes from playing my full monk, so that's not too big of a deal, to me. In fact, using only robes will only save me money, in the long run, as decent full plate armor can get expensive. (I've yet to find a reason to buy additional robes for my pure monk; most of the more expensive items give very small boosts for the prices asked for, or I know that, in a few levels, there's simply no need to buy a certain robe because I'll get it in a quest. My monk seems to be doing okay; not stellar, but good enough to get by. I'm sure the monk/cleric will be able to do the same, if I switch her to robes.) But wouldn't wielding longswords or longsword and dagger also upset the AC bonuses I would get, as they're not monk weapons? Or am I misunderstanding how the AC bonuses work, as I'm assuming being centered is required?

EDIT:

I'm playing around with the monk/cleric suggested build, now. I had decided to give her 16 Dex, and 14 Wis, so that I need only raise the Dex stat up, once, at level 8. My goal is to at least delay the need for any tomes until much later in the game, when I'm in a position to either find them through quests or simply buy them. This seems doable, as I've been told that spells are not like feats, so stat-enhancing items and stat-boosting enhancements will allow me to access the higher-level spells, when the time comes for such things to be necessary.

I'm also playing around with the ranger/cleric suggested build. I'm still not quite sure which build I like better, though. I might end up liking and keeping both characters, at this rate.