Feat: Improved Weapon Finesse

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Well sure it's weak for DDO.
Remove the shield penalty, and up it to 1d8 or 2d4 or something.

[Shaikc]

And then i lose my thread...

[hydra_ex]

Well sure it's weak for DDO.
Remove the shield penalty, and up it to 1d8 or 2d4 or something.

The problem with that as well is that you also get your STR mod, and, eventually, its going to be better than PA, or coming close, which would again upset the balance.

The way I think it should work is that it always deals less damage (as the % dex added is never 100), but it confers of the benefit of being able to improve AC.

Really, both ideas could work, but its a balancing act. Too powerful, and it invalidates everyone. Too weak, and its absolutely useless.

[Shaikc]

Perhaps like this it would be better:

Improved Weapon Finesse: [Weapon Type]
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6 or 6<+Dex Mod, Weapon Focus: [Weapon Type], Weapon Finesse, Combat Expertise
You are extremely adept at working with light weapons. While you have Combat Expertise active, you can apply three-quarters (75%) of your dexterity modifier to your damage modifier instead of your strength. This can only be applied to light weapons (therefore rapiers are excluded). This effect only works on targets susceptible to critical hits.

In addition, every class, exlcluding monk, would receive enhancements "Extra Finesse Damage" I and II, costing 2 and 4 APs respectively. If the character has the IWF feat, then they can increase their damange to 80% DEX modifier and then to 85% DEX modifier.

The reason for excluding monks is to prevent super air stance monks. Perhaps a lesser version, working only up to 80%, would be available for monks.

(Percentages are negotiable. Perhaps enhc increases up to 95%?)

yea i kinda like this but why no rapiers? it doesnt make sense for them to use str in the first place(ever heard of renaissance) and dont try to give me anything saying rapiers have better dps because well they dont 1d6 just like everything else. and i'd like to add prereqs: dodge, moblity, and Extra Finesse Damage III,IV,V at 90% for 4points and 100% for 16. notice i modified bab req.

[Aranticus]

yea i kinda like this but why no rapiers? it doesnt make sense for them to use str in the first place(ever heard of renaissance) and dont try to give me anything saying rapiers have better dps because well they dont 1d6 just like everything else. and i'd like to add prereqs: dodge, moblity, and Extra Finesse Damage III,IV,V at 90% for 8points, 95% for 8 and 100% for 16

rapiers do better dps than most other 1 handed weapons

[Shaikc]

Another idea

Improved Weapon Finesse: [Weapon Type]
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6, Weapon Focus: [Weapon Type], Weapon Finesse, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack
You are extremely adept at working with light weapons.You can apply three-quarters (75%) of your dexterity modifier on a natural roll >= 10 + (str mod-2)[x2 if negative] to your damage modifier instead of your strength, otherwise just add your str mod-2. This can only be applied to light weapons and one-handed peircing weapons. This effect only works on targets susceptible to critical hits.

In addition, every class, exlcluding monk, would receive enhancements "Extra Finesse Damage" I, II, III, IV, and V costing 2, 4,6,8, and 8 APs respectively. If the character has the IWF feat, then they can increase their damange to 80% DEX modifier and then to 85%,90%,95%,100% DEX modifier.

The reason for excluding monks is to prevent super air stance monks. Perhaps a lesser version, working only up to 80%, would be available for monks.

[Uska]

I think that was in one of those awful power gaming splat books that I never allowed.

[Shaikc]

I think that was in one of those awful power gaming splat books that I never allowed.

Ouch rebuttal from the big man. So no compromises?
Btw i think this is main stream.

[Aranticus]

Another idea

Improved Weapon Finesse: [Weapon Type]
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6, Weapon Focus: [Weapon Type], Weapon Finesse, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack
You are extremely adept at working with light weapons.You can apply three-quarters (75%) of your dexterity modifier on a natural roll >= 10 + (str mod-2)[x2 if negative] to your damage modifier instead of your strength, otherwise just add your str mod-2. This can only be applied to light weapons and one-handed peircing weapons. This effect only works on targets susceptible to critical hits.

In addition, every class, exlcluding monk, would receive enhancements "Extra Finesse Damage" I, II, III, IV, and V costing 2, 4,6,8, and 8 APs respectively. If the character has the IWF feat, then they can increase their damange to 80% DEX modifier and then to 85%,90%,95%,100% DEX modifier.

The reason for excluding monks is to prevent super air stance monks. Perhaps a lesser version, working only up to 80%, would be available for monks.

/not signed too

[Uska]

Ouch rebuttal from the big man. So no compromises?
Btw i think this is main stream.

Not for 3.5 as far as I can remember have switched to HMB and A&8's for rpgs and mainly played 1st and 2nd ed before that. think maybe 4E which we are not, and no compromises system is fine as is.

[Letrii]

A non-homebrew solution would be martial study, martial stance, and shadow blade. Costs 3 feats and lets you use Dex to damage for a selection of weapons, while in a stance. These are from the Book of Nine Swords.

[toughguyjoe]

A non-homebrew solution would be martial study, martial stance, and shadow blade. Costs 3 feats and lets you use Dex to damage for a selection of weapons, while in a stance. These are from the Book of Nine Swords.

Yeah see. Book of Nine Swords was the beginning of the end. that book was practically 4E in 3.5's clothing.

Its usually house ruled out. Warblade=O.P. the other two classes are on the verge, or down right O.P. as well.

[Letrii]

Overpowered to spend 3 feats to get Dex to damage? Have to be in a stance and only works with a limited selection of weapons. I will admit it is very nice for a monk though.

[Shaikc]

Ok, one last try

Improved Weapon Finesse: [Weapon Type]
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +8, Weapon Focus: [Weapon Type], Greater Weapon Focus:[Weapon Type],Weapon Specialization:[Weapon Type], Weapon Finesse, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, TWF, ITWF
You are extremely adept at working with light weapons.You can apply half (50%) of your dexterity modifier on a natural hit-roll >= [10 - (str mod-2)[x2 if negative] + Targer Dex mod] to your damage modifier instead of your strength, otherwise just add your str mod-2. This can only be applied to light weapons and one-handed peircing weapons. This effect only works on targets susceptible to critical hits. This effect is only in use whilist two of the IWFed weapon are being wielded and GTWF is required for the off-hand to get the bonus if it is not lighter than the main hand.

Also whilist a character is using IWF s/he is concentrating so hard on scoring critical blows that they must suceed on a concentration check DC: Enemy AC +5 in order to fight defensively or use total defence

In addition, every class, exlcluding monk, would receive enhancements "Extra Finesse Damage" I, II, III, IV, and V costing 2, 4,8,16, and 16 APs respectively at lvls 12, 14, 16, 18, and 20. If the character has the IWF feat, then they can increase their damange to 50% DEX modifier and then to 60%,70%,85%,100% DEX modifier.

[Letrii]

Only fighters get enough feats to qualify for that.

[Shaikc]

I know. that was the idea.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Only fighters get enough feats to qualify for that.

And maybe Rangers.


Seems way to overly complicated just add half your DEX mod to damage.

Though I'm fairly sure you're just kidding about that, making melee make a concentration check and all.

[Letrii]

Would Dex to damage with select weapons be overpowered at cost of 3 feats I mentioned?

[Shaikc]

And maybe Rangers.


Seems way to overly complicated just add half your DEX mod to damage.

Though I'm fairly sure you're just kidding about that, making melee make a concentration check and all.

yea most of those were a stab at everyone sayin this would be op even without GWF,WS,and TWF costs that would still be alot of feats needed
also i couldnt make it max since apparently its SO much easier to get high dex than high str

[AylinIsAwesome]

yea most of those were a stab at everyone sayin this would be op even without GWF,WS,and TWF costs that would still be alot of feats needed
also i couldnt make it max since apparently its SO much easier to get high dex than high str

Yeah, totally, I mean it's not like STR and DEX cost the same points to get to the same levels, or anything crazy like that.



But seriously, yeah Halflings and Elves get +2 DEX with DEX enhancements, but so what?

If we take a 30 DEX, 8 STR Elf of Halfling, with Weapon Finesse, that's +10 to attack instead of -1. We add two more feats and at 50% DEX into damage, that's +5 damage. For the cost of 3 feats.

Please people, explain how this is so much more powerful than a 30 DEX, 14 STR rogue (since I like my rogues being able to carry stuff) taking Weapon Finesse and Power Attack.