Making Epic Dungeons

[Tolero]

Join developers Torc, Piloto, and Eladrin as they discuss one of the new dungeon features in DDO Unlimited! Click here!

[Cyr]

Interesting read, but did not really have any new information in it besides the hint that Von 5/6 are going to be made epic. I would really like to see some discussion about what the real goals of epic content from a design standpoint are as well as the logic behind the truly wide split of the quality of epic gear. I'm a fan of epic stuff, even though a decision was made to make AC essentially worthless again. Oh and another big question I've had is what 'level' are these epic quests supposed to be. They clearly are much higher then a normal level 20 dungeon design would have been based upon damage scaling, hp scaling, to hit scaling, and armor class scaling.

[Samadhi]

Please take note of how many people are not really enjoying epic, due to the simple fact that it is the same freakin dungeons we had already run for a long time, just with added time constraints since they have so many HP

[Dcloak]

I've enjoyed the challenge of the epic dungeons thus far.

I just don't agree with some of the epic items not being so epic, imo.

[Tolero]

Interesting read, but did not really have any new information in it besides the hint that Von 5/6 are going to be made epic

Or that regular Von you won't have to constantly reflag, in precise sequential order, for every dragon run.

[RobbinB]

Just want to state again (emphatically) how much I hate blanket immunities. There are so many other ways to address problem type spells/weapons to reduce their effectiveness without making them useless.

Examples:

Vorpals - with seeker bonuses any roll of 20 will almost certainly be confirmed by most competent tanks. Instead of addressing the obvious problem by making mobs flat out vorpal-immune do something else, like randomly assigning a chance that a mob will have deathward up or giving them "reverse seeker" enhancement which deducts from your confirm crit roll.

Stat damage - reduce proc rate aka giants in prey on the hunter

Instakill spells/weapons - double save dynamic or instakill equates not to death but a very large damage output equal to a significant chunk of their hp.

Blanket immunities just aren't fun.

[Mav145]

Or that regular Von you won't have to constantly reflag, in precise sequential order, for every dragon run.

Huh?

Sorry, I'm a little dense sometimes.

[ArkoHighStar]

Torc is now negotiating with the infamous House Kundarak for their Vault of Night so that you won’t need to reflag to revisit a certain lovely red dragon every time – no matter what difficulty you’re on!

That alone is EPIC win right there

I personally have no issues with doing older dungeons on epic, as long as Turbine keeps giving us new content to go along with it.

I for one relish to see an EPIC CUBE, not that CUBE's are not EPIC already


All HAIL THE CUBE!!

[Tolero]

Huh?

Sorry, I'm a little dense sometimes.

Basically we had gotten a lot of requests to change the Vault of Night dragon raid so that you didn't have to reflag for it every single time. It was a real undertaking. But since Torc and Purplefooz had to crack those quests open to start fiddling with Epic versions anyway, they took the liberty of setting it up so that you only need to flag for it once on any difficulty, not just epic.

As I understand it, they've informed me that you will also be able to do the quests out of order, rather than HAVING to do von 1 then 2 then 3 then 4 in that exact order.

[Memnir]

While I like the idea of the Epic quests, I'm sorry if I just cannot get as excited about them as I would over actual new content. Epic, to me, just feels like a desperate attempt to extend content in the game by recycling old material with slightly new twists - and only moderately appealing carrots dangled to lure us in. The carrots themselves aren't new either... just Fabreeze'd versions of old stuff.


I'd be impressed by a 100% new Epic dungeon - and all that that implies. With Epic being the only setting that exists for that new dungeon. But, to be going back and messing around under the hood of old quests... It's just adding new grind to done-to-death quests, imho.

An interesting read, yes... but sadly nothing mentioned in the way of New.

[bobbryan2]

Great news on the VON reflagging.

Great news on making more epic quest.

The epic grind associated with epic items, however... that one I'm going to say is epic fail.

[Mav145]

Basically we had gotten a lot of requests to change the Vault of Night dragon raid so that you didn't have to reflag for it every single time. It was a real undertaking. But since Torc and Purplefooz had to crack those quests open to start fiddling with Epic versions anyway, they took the liberty of setting it up so that you only need to flag for it once on any difficulty, not just epic.

As I understand it, they've informed me that you will also be able to do the quests out of order, rather than HAVING to do von 1 then 2 then 3 then 4 in that exact order.

I think I love you.

[moops]

Epic Gianthold coming? We see the Epic Blue scale robe. . .

To me Gianthold would be awesome as there are so many different types of quests out there--and groups could choose to do the longer or shorter ones or the ones suited to the classes that they have in the group atm. . .With all those Quest, it wouldnt seem so grindy for tokens.

[Gunga]

An EPIC VON 5/6 could put the pure rogue back on the map, if:

1. The loot is worth it.
2. an 18/1/1 can't do it better.

Those traps are gonna be doosies.

Looking forward to it (the quest not the pure rogue).

[Kalari]

Id like to see epic restless isles one day as well. Titan epic would be fun times. Though I have to agree with another poster Id really like to see an original epic style area that isnt already something weve run before.

Maybe a setting past the outreaches in one of the outer planes, we keep raising people stealing their souls from Dolrruth and on top of that some of the pesky elves have the nerve to be messing with the powers of the undying court. Maybe its time for some epic level baddies from that realm to come and say "were tired of you stealing our dead!"

but then again I have a very active imagination so feel free to ignore me lol.

[Raiderone]

I like EPIC quests. I just don't like the method of the scroll drops.

1)they drop too infrequently.
2)they should drop in chests or drop for all.
3)should be tracked using loot table (not that i dont trust anyone)...right!

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Epic Gianthold coming? We see the Epic Blue scale robe. . .

Epic gianthold would indeed be epic

Especially if there was a purple dragon in there somewhere that dropped purple dragonscales for the PWNFORGE.

Garth

[SimVerg]

An EPIC VON 5/6 could put the pure rogue back on the map, if:

1. The loot is worth it.
2. an 18/1/1 can't do it better.

Those traps are gonna be doosies.

Looking forward to it (the quest not the pure rogue).

Pretty sure everyone will just raise through them if they can't be found easily. No one is gimping their rogue for one pre-raid.

[sephiroth1084]

Two questions/suggestions, Tolero (and to pass on to other devs):

First, there is a statement in the making epic dungeons thread about new effects on items, but I see very little (almost none) of that on the desert loot. That, coupled with some very poor item upgrades, results in epic quests being far less attractive than they otherwise might be, since the difficulty in obtaining these items is just not worth the grind. Can we hope that the upgrades to future epic content are more thought-out?

Second, in converting the VoN series to epic, have the developers working on it also sought to alter the fight against Velah to be less...dull? I'm pretty sure that if you were to ask anyone who has gone through VoN, they will all tell you the same thing:

"Wow! The scenery in VoN 6 is awesome! And A DRAGON! OOH! Look how big she is! Wait...what? I have to run around bases and break pillars? And...now that we're at the dragon, she isn't going to move, and only one person gets to go fight the unmoving dragon? And I'm not allowed to move from this spot, throw spells or fire ranged attacks at the dragon from here because it will wipe the raid? Uh...I thought this was going to be cool..."

Seriously, I'd actually much prefer devs spending time to refurbish that fight than create a new quest (1:1 ratio, not refurbish instead of a new adventure pack).

[Gunga]

No one is gimping their rogue for one pre-raid.

Your rogue is the man, huh.

Seriously, I'd actually much prefer devs spending time to refurbish that fight than create a new quest .

/signed