Making Epic Dungeons

[Aezar]

Is there a list of quest that have been converted to epic?

[maddmatt70]

I have run the quests 100 or so times and farmed some on my own. I have become really disenchanted with the whole epic system. I do not play DDO to go out and solo all day long on my own. Some people probably enjoy doing this, but they are definitely in the minority in what is called a group game. Why do the developers think that DDO should be a solo game when you get to level 20? The epic system reinforces the solo game.

Here is how? Monsters drop scrolls which are integral to the whole crafting system so the best way to get scrolls is to go into a dungeon by yourself on a caster and kill the same 20 monsters then just recall and do this over and over. Until eventually you get scrolls that way by going by yourself you do not have share scrolls with others and you can keep resource usage to a minimum by not pushing for completion. The same goes for seals just loot the same half dozen easier to access chests over and over that way you keep your resource usage to a minimum. Then to get shards you just keep running the raid. If you need tokens you just run the offering quest. The low drop rate for all items and potential resource usage just reinforces this behavior.

I enjoy running something at end game in a group setting if you do not provide incentives for this you can count on eventually having at least one less player. Between the lackluster loot in IQ and this Epic System you have missed the mark.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Just wondering on the latest (jan 2010) info!

Are we going to see all raids turn epic? Or...?

Will the Epic guidelines from 3.5 PnP apply here?

[Demonfire]

While I like the idea of the Epic quests, I'm sorry if I just cannot get as excited about them as I would over actual new content. Epic, to me, just feels like a desperate attempt to extend content in the game by recycling old material with slightly new twists - and only moderately appealing carrots dangled to lure us in. The carrots themselves aren't new either... just Fabreeze'd versions of old stuff.


I'd be impressed by a 100% new Epic dungeon - and all that that implies. With Epic being the only setting that exists for that new dungeon. But, to be going back and messing around under the hood of old quests... It's just adding new grind to done-to-death quests, imho.

An interesting read, yes... but sadly nothing mentioned in the way of New.

The best sugestion i've read in a long time. If only a dev could read it and take note of it.... but that too would be epic!

Anyway +1 rep to memnir!

[LuckyCuss]

After a lot of work, I managed to make my Fire Storm Greaves epic. As a result, these greaves now have improved fire resistance, the item is now bound to one toon, and the item has a level requirement of 20 instead of 9 so that toon can not use the item since reincarnation has left him below 20th level.

Yes the item does have two slots now, however, since epic came out I have managed to obtain only a few epic quest tokens. Since reincarnation came out there just hasn't been many pugs for epic stuff and to be trueful, I do not enjoy running epic desert quests where most of my spells don't work so I have really lost interest in the whole epic side of things. I finally decide to reincarnate the toon to see how that goes but now I can no longer use this boots even though I am above ninth level.

It seems to me that the epic/recanation thing are really at cross purposes on multiple levels.

For a future release I would like to see a way to make an Epic item "unepic" again for those of us with buyer remorse.

[sirgog]

After a lot of work, I managed to make my Fire Storm Greaves epic. As a result, these greaves now have improved fire resistance, the item is now bound to one toon, and the item has a level requirement of 20 instead of 9 so that toon can not use the item since reincarnation has left him below 20th level.

Yes the item does have two slots now, however, since epic came out I have managed to obtain only a few epic quest tokens. Since reincarnation came out there just hasn't been many pugs for epic stuff and to be trueful, I do not enjoy running epic desert quests where most of my spells don't work so I have really lost interest in the whole epic side of things. I finally decide to reincarnate the toon to see how that goes but now I can no longer use this boots even though I am above ninth level.

It seems to me that the epic/recanation thing are really at cross purposes on multiple levels.

For a future release I would like to see a way to make an Epic item "unepic" again for those of us with buyer remorse.

An alternative would be to let Epic items be equipped at the base item's minimum level, but they have only the base item's stats until you hit 20 (so Epic Spectral Gloves would be equippable at 11 for +5 Dex, +2 To-Hit and Ignore Incorporeality, but the augment crystal and extra +2 To-Hit and +2 Dex don't function until 20).

[sirgog]

I have run the quests 100 or so times and farmed some on my own. I have become really disenchanted with the whole epic system. I do not play DDO to go out and solo all day long on my own. Some people probably enjoy doing this, but they are definitely in the minority in what is called a group game. Why do the developers think that DDO should be a solo game when you get to level 20? The epic system reinforces the solo game.

Here is how? Monsters drop scrolls which are integral to the whole crafting system so the best way to get scrolls is to go into a dungeon by yourself on a caster and kill the same 20 monsters then just recall and do this over and over. Until eventually you get scrolls that way by going by yourself you do not have share scrolls with others and you can keep resource usage to a minimum by not pushing for completion. The same goes for seals just loot the same half dozen easier to access chests over and over that way you keep your resource usage to a minimum. Then to get shards you just keep running the raid. If you need tokens you just run the offering quest. The low drop rate for all items and potential resource usage just reinforces this behavior.

I enjoy running something at end game in a group setting if you do not provide incentives for this you can count on eventually having at least one less player. Between the lackluster loot in IQ and this Epic System you have missed the mark.

Speaking from the perspective of someone that loves the Epic difficulty, I agree with Maddmatt that the epic loot system should be overhauled - in partiuclar to remove the push to solo grinding of scrolls.

Just make it so that when a scroll drops, each and every player in the group can loot one copy of it. This will make scrolls as common as seals are (rather than being as rare as shards are now), but it seems pretty clear that the Devs' intention was for the shards to be the hard part to acquire for each upgrade.

Secondly, have all Epic quests/raids drop (with higher drop rates than Elite) the base, non-epic items. If the Torc has a 0.65% drop rate (per player) on elite ADQ2, it should have a 1.3% drop rate (per player) on Epic. Likewise for Spectral Gloves, Cape of the Roc, etc.

Thirdly (this is Desert specific), add the (non-epic) Bloodstone, Greaves, etc to the loot tables of the epic chest of ADQ1, and give them pretty good drop rates there.

Fourthly, slightly up the drop rates on Shards. I suggest a 25% per player of getting a shard (in line with the chance of getting raid loot from raids on Elite). It'll still take time to get the perfect shard, but it will be an a grind where the end is in sight, rather than the current system.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Just wondering on the latest (jan 2010) info!

Are we going to see all raids turn epic? Or...? Eventually. Von next mod, GH probably after that

Will the Epic guidelines from 3.5 PnP apply here?Nope, not at all. They are just what would be called "nightmare" mode back in my Doom days. The quests are L20, with senseless immunities, on steroids.

[Sarezar]

I would just like the drop rates to be slightly higher. It takes a long time for some of those quests and some of them may need many resources. Both are fine, but they need to pay in the end. Doing 10 epic run in CoF and getting 0 scrolls, 0 seals, and 0 shards is unacceptable.

Challenge is good, but there are other more fun ways to get challenge. Epic needs a reward that is a bit more balanced (depending on the length/defiiculty of the quest?)

[Sir_Chonas]

Epic Von4 seems perfect to me. Reminiscent of running WW 2 levels below the normal quest level on elite. Deaths and wipes happen, adaptation happens. Strategy happens. Fun happens.

This quest is highly enjoyable, and it is very challenging.

[Shade]

From the article:

When you play epic difficulty dungeons, a special chest is available at the end of the quest. This extra shiny, gilded, royal purple chest contains the usual randomized level 20 rewards. But there’s also a greater treasure waiting within – the epic token! Hovering inside the epic chest, bathed in an awe-inspiring illumination of purple light, is a radiant purple disc known as an epic token. Picking up this token automatically bestows one epic dungeon token (or epic raid token if you’re playing a raid) to each person in the party. For every epic dungeon or raid, you’re guaranteed an epic chest with the epic token. Epic win!

"Guarrenteed an epic chest with the epic token. Epic win!"

There are no tokens in update4 epics. Going against exactly what they stated here.
Epic Fail!

[Hendrik]

From the article:


"Guarrenteed an epic chest with the epic token. Epic win!"

There are no tokens in update4 epics. Going against exactly what they stated here.
Epic Fail!

Ok, so you have quoted a statement from previous Epics and tried to apply it to current. Why not quote current statements on the U4 Epics and apply those?

Could it be that they have explained WHY there are no tokens and that an alternate solution is being discussed?

[Krag]

Could it be that they have explained WHY there are no tokens and that an alternate solution is being discussed?

Could it be that noone gives a rat's tail about WHY?
Now that all Mod4 epic items are confirmed to be sucktastic I hardly ever see people farming pirate adventures. Even long and boring desert epics are done more frequently.

[velish_mal]

Could it be that noone gives a rat's tail about WHY?
Now that all Mod4 epic items are confirmed to be sucktastic I hardly ever see people farming pirate adventures. Even long and boring desert epics are done more frequently.

if you don't like epic dungeons/raids, try this marvel idea of not playing them...i know it's a foreign concept to not assail yourself, but no one's mandating that you have to play these

[ZeroTakenaka]

if you don't like epic dungeons/raids, try this marvel idea of not playing them...i know it's a foreign concept to not assail yourself, but no one's mandating that you have to play them

Thread necro. Move along people.

[Hollowgolem]

When half of the updates in the last year have focused heavily on adding epic content, "ignore epic content" isn't a valid answer.

A huge part of the apparent endgame of DDO is epic.

As for complaining, if the developers are working on epic content, they're not working on other things. So those of us who may -not- run epics or enjoy epics are still impacted by the focus of the developers. The last couple of updates haven't been too terribly bad, w/ regard to epic focus, but as a rule, a lot since ftp have been.

As for epic drop rates, since update 8, what happened? They've gotten (somehow) even -worse-. Running a quest 100 times with no payoff (especially with a 16-hour timer) is absurd. Running ADQ/VoN3/VoN5/Spies in the House, or similar difficult epic quests should almost -guarantee- at least a seal. They're just not worth running if they have the same drop rate as everything else, and it's ludicrous to even have them available to run if they're going to screw everyone who -does- run them.

tl;dr summary: If you want to fix epics, give harder epic quests higher drop rates for epic items. Not necessarily all the epic quests that give a full token, because Wiz King, Offering, and Tide Turns are all still pretty easy, relative to other epics. But ADQ and VoN5 epic should almost -always- result in at least one seal, at least from the end chest. Period.

[grodon9999]

if you don't like epic dungeons/raids, try this marvel idea of not playing them...i know it's a foreign concept to not assail yourself, but no one's mandating that you have to play these

What else is there to do at cap?

[Ragemage]

I want to see Gianthold epic asap!!!

[Attropos]

I want to see Gianthold epic asap!!!

And I got excited when I saw this thread. /sigh.

[Nummesis]

I may be wrong and if I am then pls by all means correct me, I thought I saw an announcement recently that said the game would be introducing a S/E/R Wilderness Area that would only be accessible by lvl 20 toons.

If possible could i pls get a conformation on that by a Dev and if it is true, would the quests inside said Wild Area simply be lvl 20 norms (ie ToD) or already scaled to epic lvls only?