Not ALL PUG's are bad...

[squeenohyoshii]

Hello All -

I'm a fairly new player to DDO (since Aug). I'm a casual player (I've only one toon) and play when I can but due to GF/work/kids aggro I dont play as much as I like...but I've been able to get my Dwarven Cleric up L12 (yesterday YEAH!) I dont have a ton of MMO experience (my only other game was SWG) but I do respect others in the game.
Since I've been playing this game I've encountered many different play styles...some of them very poor and others very good. I had some issues with my class & other playrs while questing (see my previous posts) but I got some very good advice on these forums...after using those bits of advice, I must say my DDO experience has really improved.

I know some PUG's are horrible...some players just do not "get" the whole MMO concept and neither does it occur to them that the game is about fun and learning, not just zerging thru to an endquest and xp. When I'm in a PUG, I try to take some leadership if no one else is acting in a coordinated manner. Some players split up for no reason and get mad when they die cause there is no "flawless" Xp or whatever. Well...guess what? It's "your" own fault. I just dont think that players get it...but that may be a reflection of their RL as well.
Please don't hate on all PUG'rs...some of us just are not in a guild (for whatever reason) or just new to the game. I bet alot of the PUG'rs would really benefit from some sort of help IG.

EVERY PLAYER was a noob once, and they learned from a vet who was patient with them and taught the the ropes (or the very least took them on the quests). Do some players deserve a boot to the butt? Of course. But at the same time...be cool, cause those same PUG'rs maybe invaluble to you in some way later on.

And ya know what? I've been in plenty of groups where vets are leveling lowbies and they totally flip out when players don't zerg with them everywhere. Just recently I was trying to finish the Threnal quest and I invited someone who was "experienced" but the only one in group who was. He/She was VERY aggravated that we didn't zerg *** him and follow him around...he had a Sorc and hasted himself only and never bothered to help the rest of us. When I asked him/her to actually HELP and lead, he sent me a /tell and it said "I HATE PUGS!" and quit after part 2 of the west side. He /ragelog because I asked him to actually be TEAM player?!?! WoW!

Anyway...I'm not trying to flame or anything, just saying...
- Not all PUG'rs are cut from the same cloth
- Not all Vets are cut from the same cloth

So can't we all just get along?

[Kalari]

Hello to you and its true it does go both ways sometimes. I have said it before and I'll state it here I was really lucky my first year here. I got in a nice guild that went slow and for my first year only played one character my wizard I learned many quests got favor unlocked and experienced a lot of the game. Now that Ive been building others (hehe up to 16 alts now) I do have times where I want to go fast. I also have lucked out to be in a guild of players now who accommodate that. But when I know I have to pug I follow whoever has the star's directions. If I have the star I expect the same respect. I must say congrats on getting your healer to 12. I thankfully did not start out as a healer. I now have a few under my belts but the game can be very demanding on healers specially during pugging. So it does make me at least grumbly when im playing a healer in a bad pug then anything else.

Hopefully you'll continue to have fun and when altitis hits you and you get more play time you'll get to see how good this game is from many perspectives. And I try to get along but I do have cranky days

[squeenohyoshii]

Thanks for the warm words.

I think what you said that strikes the most cord is the "follow the star".
If I am the star person, I will make specific "suggestions" during the quest for people...and if I dont have the star,I ask that person to step-up and lead the group cause it's going to be heck lol

[zorander6]

removed

[HGM-Chi]

I've had mixed blessings so far.

First group I got with (about 3 days ago) was an amazing group of fairly experienced people playing alts, I'd guess. They moved faster through the dungeons than I would have liked, but they never once asked for heals, and were happy when I gave 'em out. They answer questions and waited for the slower people at regular intervals. It was a great experience and taught me that grouping was the way to go.

My last group had a monk in at that played totally oldschool FPS style. Run in ahead of everyone fists blazing and then scream for heals while I'm still jogging along a half mile from the fray. I'm a complete newbie, and it's my mistake that I kept healing him anyhow. It cost the rangers later on (who should have been tanking) and eventually it was as close to a party wipe as I need to see. In retrospect I'd let him die and tell the rest of the group point blank not to res him 'til we're done.

That being said, I was still happy to be playing, and laughed as I lay dead on the floor with a monk screaming for heals into his mic. I think the ideal for me would be to get in a PUG where all the people had *never* done the quest before. That would slow as all down and force us to think about our roles more. OR groups that take pride in rolling through a quest without having to use the rest shrines (a good sign of avoiding damage and thinking carefully about spell/resource usage, like you have to in PnP).

Anyhow... so far the experience has been great, and now I'm committed to the tune of a year's subscription, so I hope it stays great! I'm still looking for a cool guild that doesn't mind accepting a casual player who likes to take it slow and learn, but I know I'll find one

[Phidius]

It must be the teacher in me - I just have to point out that PUG != new player.

Some vets run only with their guild, some PUGs, and still others solo.

The problem with PUGs is that you rarely know what you're going to get, and for some people, that's a problem.

You could make the argument that the recent influx of new blood has caused the PUG scene to change drastically, but I wouldn't know about that. It's always been a cr.ap-shoot.

[Cyr]

Well of course not all pugs are bad. Pick up groups are exactly that. They can be very bad or fairly good. As for new players same deal. Now the whole zerging = bad is as much of a silly blanket statement as all pugs are bad. Zerging is fine...as long as it is controlled zerging. Some people run stuff very fast and run it smooth. Some run off and die right away like noobs. Fastest way to run most lowbie quests is to split up into sub parties and knock out the different objectives/mobs that way. Most experienced players know the simple rules that if your not near the arcane don't expect to get hasted and if your not near the divine don't expect to get healed. Oh and not every player is a noob at first, in fact most are not. They are newbs, which is perfectly fine, but a noob rarely ever becomes anything other then a noob even if they play for a very long time.

[04pugdog04]

But but but but I am the only pug amd sometimes I am BAd and sometimes I am good and sometimes just neutral. I hope this clears things up.


Also welcome to the game.

[DaoJones]

I think it's less about new or veteran players, and more about good or bad players. A good player understands the objective, has the patience to work with a non-optimal team, and makes sure everyone has a good time. A bad player does none of those things.

The problem with pug groups is, as someone said, you don't have control over who gets into the group unless you make the group yourself.

In City of Heroes I was very successful at making great pug groups simply because I learned what to look out for when recruiting people to run with me. My first bit of advice: never take a blind invite, and never send a blind invite. If I'm making a team, I always send a tell first. If they can't be bothered to respond, then I don't want them. That rule alone has gone far toward making teams I've run and run with much more enjoyable experiences.

[squeenohyoshii]

i Think It's Less About New Or Veteran Players, And More About Good Or Bad Players. A Good Player Understands The Objective, Has The Patience To Work With A Non-optimal Team, And Makes Sure Everyone Has A Good Time. A Bad Player Does None Of Those Things.

The Problem With Pug Groups Is, As Someone Said, You Don't Have Control Over Who Gets Into The Group Unless You Make The Group Yourself.

In City Of Heroes I Was Very Successful At Making Great Pug Groups Simply Because I Learned What To Look Out For When Recruiting People To Run With Me. My First Bit Of Advice: Never Take A Blind Invite, And Never Send A Blind Invite. If I'm Making A Team, I Always Send A Tell First. If They Can't Be Bothered To Respond, Then I Don't Want Them. That Rule Alone Has Gone Far Toward Making Teams I've Run And Run With Much More Enjoyable Experiences.

+1

[MorningStarSE]

I think it's less about new or veteran players, and more about good or bad players. A good player understands the objective, has the patience to work with a non-optimal team, and makes sure everyone has a good time. A bad player does none of those things.

The problem with pug groups is, as someone said, you don't have control over who gets into the group unless you make the group yourself.

In City of Heroes I was very successful at making great pug groups simply because I learned what to look out for when recruiting people to run with me. My first bit of advice: never take a blind invite, and never send a blind invite. If I'm making a team, I always send a tell first. If they can't be bothered to respond, then I don't want them. That rule alone has gone far toward making teams I've run and run with much more enjoyable experiences.

That (because i'm from that school - bad player vs good player - because there are newbies who know how to play and vets that still suck and the only thing they have is their played time).


The 2-3 last days/evening I've only ran in PuG group and I've been in only 3 bad group over the 20+ quests I've ran (all with different group - oh and i was on Thelanis). And within these 3 bad groups, only one was very bad - the 2 other was still succesful. The bad group has 2 decent players but the other people in was just acting stupid without shame and they earn a few of my sour comments about their R-tarded attitude...

Anyway, Not all pugs are bad

[hermespan]

By my count I've had a roughly 5% fail with PuGs above 4th level. Not bad... This percentage increases drastically as you get down below 4th level.

[aradelothion]

Being new to the game -- DDO is my first MMO, in fact -- I've had my fair share of groups where I was constantly struggling to keep up with the vets who could run a particular quest blindfolded, and while it's great XP and more or less a walk in the park (at low levels), it doesn't do much for the experience, and it teaches us new players, well, very little. Things just go by so fast it's hard to process. That said, I did have an opportunity to group with a really swell rogue who goes by Apt, and despite obviously wanting to get Stormcleave over with, he took the time to make certian aspects of the quest clear (granted, it's not a head scratcher of a quest, but that's just picking nits). Guess I'm saying, most folks new to the game need to be told a few things, and the vets also need to do the telling

[Baragrim]

Its quite sad that (imo) the average intelligence of a PUG is inversely proportional to the number of people in it. Im old - soooo old! lol - and remember the grouping of "oldskool games" like EQ where the game was so hard to learn (and level) folk understood how groups worked and generally went smoothly - you learned who was good to group with in areas etc.

My first EQ toon was a warrior who didnt know he had to train taunt - yup! - we all start knowing nothing, a good group with folk will allow you to learn how to play well. For instance a good puller in a group in EQ would only stop bringing mobs when a mana cry went out otherwise his job was to keep a production line coming.

I have two toons and am still learning the game myself, one has a regularly friends group which has pretty much moved from everquest to Vanguard to WAR to DDO and so (as you can imagine) works like a finely tuned engine - most of the time

My other is my current "dossing" toon, a Drow Rogue who despairs when I have to group to get xp/favour. As a ferinstance. Running STK with a PUG I was constantly trying to stop the healer being in front of the tanks <ID1oT alert> and more importantly (in my view) ME. When the healer insisted in running into traps before I could get my trap warning off I MAY have become slightly sarcastic and admitted his way of finding them was faster if not more efficient.