DM Tools in the future of DDO!?

[ShrewMage]

I was quite intrigued when I read a certain clip from Beckett's massiveonlinegamer.com recent article on the new changes to DDO. This is the same article that tops the news on the forum homepage. Here's the link to the article, for reference.

http://www.massiveonlinegamer.com/ne...dragons-online

The particular excerpt that caught my attention was from Turbine's Exec Producer. Fernando Piaz?

If we could do anything today with no limitations, I would love to add Dungeon Master tools to the game to empower our players to create new quests and areas of the game. It is a natural fit for Dungeons & Dragons and it would really unleash the creativity of our player community to get to expand the world and make it their own.

Personally I think this would be an exciting new addition to DDO, as like he says it would really unleash the players creativity. Of course there would have to be limitations to the content players could create. Like we wouldn't be able to make it give us tons of xp or unrealistic items. Since that's pretty much what killed NWN1 in my opinion.

Anyway, I'm just throwing this out there to see how other players feel about this.

What do you all think?

EDIT: My bad, looks like someone else already posted something similar to this.

[Velexia]

I was quite intrigued when I read a certain clip from Beckett's massiveonlinegamer.com recent article on the new changes to DDO. This is the same article that tops the news on the forum homepage. Here's the link to the article, for reference.

http://www.massiveonlinegamer.com/ne...dragons-online

The particular excerpt that caught my attention was from Turbine's Exec Producer. Fernando Piaz?



Personally I think this would be an exciting new addition to DDO, as like he says it would really unleash the players creativity. Of course there would have to be limitations to the content players could create. Like we wouldn't be able to make it give us tons of xp or unrealistic items. Since that's pretty much what killed NWN1 in my opinion.

Anyway, I'm just throwing this out there to see how other players feel about this.

What do you all think?

EDIT: My bad, looks like someone else already posted something similar to this.

This would be completely awesome, and as for NWN1, It's still alive and kicking =)

[ShrewMage]

Yeah, I should have been a little more clear about that. It killed it for me, not that it actually killed the game. I know people who still use the NWN DM tools for building virtual realms of the dungeons they play in RL, or at least in Faerun. It was definitely a fun game, but after getting top notch gear that was completely unrealistic it seemed pointless to continue on. I think somewhere I still have a DVD with a ton of different character builds I had played, all at different stages. hehe

[AngryMog]

City of Heroes has added a mission creation toolset.

It allows you to get XP and tokens to swop in for CoH's version of loot.

It was, of course, horribly abused in its first few months by Powergamers and other farmers, but now after a bunch of balance and XP changes it seems to be working as intended. You don't get as much XP as you do with the official content, but what you do get is the chance to see new stories and new enemy types.

Obviously a lot of what's been written for it is bad, but there's good stuff, and it's been a godsend for RP groups, as we now nolonger have to shoehorn existing content into our plotlines if we don't want to.

[lifestream]

tho id assume it would be VIP limited feature only...

[Muirteme]

I must agree that it would be VIP only. To open the game to general public to create new ares would mean Turbine losing money. It's a basic question of market management: why buy premium modules if community alredy created good ones?

But if that feature is aimed only to VIP, that would mean Turbine making more money: people will create modules, just for fun, and it will encourage more people to become VIP. This way, you get more players paying, and less game designer and programers to enrich the game.

And just dont get me wrong: I am VIP myself, and any cent is worth to pay for play this game, even with the bugs occuring sometimes. I am just point one corporate way to view this specific situation.

[bigolbear]

tho id assume it would be VIP limited feature only...

Well I have to say as a premium player i hope not - infact id pass up the same kinda cost that the shared bank is at to 'unlock this feature' heck if it was VIP only this may actualy persuade me to go vip - not that it would vastly change the amount of money i spend on ddo.

As a real life DM, pen and paper player id love this.

to me this would be bringing back the D&D to ddo.

[Grenada]

NWN1

Hehe

Long as they don't let us make our own items for the quest to keep, it should be ok.

Edit: dang necro. Oh well...

[dandykong]

It seems like a good idea, but if the custom dungeons give XP or loot that carries over, then it would really break the game. If this ever gets added the devs will probably make all custom items temporary. If someone decided to make a weapon like this:

-custom sword begins here-

Indestructible Elemental Blade
Longsword (One-handed)

Equips to: Main Hand, Off Hand

Martial Weapon Proficiency

Base Damage Rating: -didn't bother to do the math-
Damage: (11-18) 1d8 + 10 Magic
Critical Roll: (25%/22-36) 16-20 / x2
Attack Mod: STR -depends on toon-
->Flaming Burst
->Icy Burst
->Shocking Burst
->Acid Burst

Durability 9999/9999
Custom Material (Hardness: 9999)

-custom sword ends here-

...then that sword is just too powerful, and it would make the official dungeons too easy. If someone sets the quest to award 999,999,999 XP then DDO will be filled with maxed players. The dungeon tool will most likely be just for fun if added to the game, and not affect your character after the dungeon. It's a really good idea and I think it should be added, but still not over-power characters (to ensure fair play).

[Oolung]

It seems like a good idea, but if the custom dungeons give XP or loot that carries over, then it would really break the game. If this ever gets added the devs will probably make all custom items temporary. If someone decided to make a weapon like this:

-custom sword begins here-

Indestructible Elemental Blade
Longsword (One-handed)

Equips to: Main Hand, Off Hand

Martial Weapon Proficiency

Base Damage Rating: -didn't bother to do the math-
Damage: (11-18) 1d8 + 10 Magic
Critical Roll: (25%/22-36) 16-20 / x2
Attack Mod: STR -depends on toon-
->Flaming Burst
->Icy Burst
->Shocking Burst
->Acid Burst

Durability 9999/9999
Custom Material (Hardness: 9999)

-custom sword ends here-

...then that sword is just too powerful, and it would make the official dungeons too easy. If someone sets the quest to award 999,999,999 XP then DDO will be filled with maxed players. The dungeon tool will most likely be just for fun if added to the game, and not affect your character after the dungeon. It's a really good idea and I think it should be added, but still not over-power characters (to ensure fair play).

The way I would hope they do it is that the player would design the level, the objectives, and the monsters, but never the loot or XP.

That way, these new quests could be approved for use, but the dev's would still need to decide what XP and loot (or even where chests are, if you don't want players to have an ability to abuse the system). Doing this would allow the community to help make content, but *should* help to remove the ability to potentially abuse the system.

The Only downside I can think of for this is that you'd need more people for a sort of "quest approval" team, to test player-made content

EDIT:Wow, holy Necro is right

[dandykong]

The way I would hope they do it is that the player would design the level, the objectives, and the monsters, but never the loot or XP.

That way, these new quests could be approved for use, but the dev's would still need to decide what XP and loot (or even where chests are, if you don't want players to have an ability to abuse the system). Doing this would allow the community to help make content, but *should* help to remove the ability to potentially abuse the system.

The Only downside I can think of for this is that you'd need more people for a sort of "quest approval" team, to test player-made content

EDIT:Wow, holy Necro is right

I suggested making the tool have no limits but you don't get XP for custom dungeons and your inventory and gold is changed back after the dungeon (the toon comes out exactly how the toon went in, no changes are kept). However, players can show off customized named gear they created in the custom dungeon hub (still "drops on leaving area"). Having no limit to dungeon creation but not making any changes to the character afterwards keeps the game fair.

[spyyder976]

I suggested making the tool have no limits but you don't get XP for custom dungeons and your inventory and gold is changed back after the dungeon (the toon comes out exactly how the toon went in, no changes are kept). However, players can show off customized named gear they created in the custom dungeon hub (still "drops on leaving area"). Having no limit to dungeon creation but not making any changes to the character afterwards keeps the game fair.

That is absolutely ridiculous; nobody would play any dungeons if they got absolutely no rewards for them. I think the best idea has already been stated, just general loot and general xp. But further still, you could add a token system like is in COH/COV, or just call it DM XP, and use this currency to buy extra stuff to add to your dungeons, such as different sized/shaped rooms, new monsters, new features, new decorations, whatever. Let players grind player made dungeons to earn the right to make their own dungeons better and better by collecting this DM XP or DM tokens; of course you should also earn some of this when players play your dungeons also. Also you could have a shop of stuff available to players for character rewards of some kind, bought with tokens or whatever currency is used, earned only from user-created dungeons. Even better still, make some of these extra dungeon features premium, and only available from the DDO Store to generate more revenue!

So far Cryptic has put a similar system in alot of their games (COH, STO, the new Neverwinter Online), and while everyone loves to hate Cryptic, I actually like their implementation of user-created content, as do the tons of players who love making their own quests and storylines and playing so many different quests made by others. I think that we will eventually get it here too, since that's not the first time it's been mentioned or suggested; we've been begging for it for years. Maybe this time getting something last may be a good thing since Turbine can see how other people do it and what works and what doesn't and build their own system to be better than all the rest, as long as they don't wait too long!

[sho-gun]

Holy necro, batman!

[cdemeritt]

1:Save Failer Vs. Greater Thread Necro....

2: Everytime this comes up people make a fuss over XP and loot, and how it'll break the game... I don't get why people have a hard time understanding Standardized loot tables (it's a Lvl 5 quest, so you get Lvl 5 loot, no named), Standardized XP (It is a Lvl 5 quest, so you get Lvl 5 XP, from a formula Lvl 5 quest X Number of mobs X Length of quest X ???), Or that you would have limits on numbers of chests, collectables, etc.... And of course Dev review of quests... If they did something like this, they would let us make quests, not give us the keys to the kingdom.

[Falco_Easts]

Could be a good idea but if it went ahead I would rather see it on a dedicated player built only server.

[Ugumagre]

Could be a good idea but if it went ahead I would rather see it on a dedicated player built only server.

Yes, that would be the only way to do it, like in NWN or NWN2. It would be nice, but I don´t think it will ever happen.
By the way, I import onions from Tasmania

[Flavilandile]

For the few that didn't notice,

It's a Thread Raised from the Dead :
07-30-2010 11:21 PM Symar-FangofLloth
08-21-2011 05:16 AM dandykong

ibtl and all, as that's how it's going to end anyway.
( and really you think we are going to be able to create our own dungeons when we have been waiting for the promised Druids for 5 years )

[spyyder976]

For the few that didn't notice,

It's a Thread Raised from the Dead :
07-30-2010 11:21 PM Symar-FangofLloth
08-21-2011 05:16 AM dandykong

ibtl and all, as that's how it's going to end anyway.
( and really you think we are going to be able to create our own dungeons when we have been waiting for the promised Druids for 5 years )

yes, we will one day; this game isn't going anywhere, and we'll get our druids Soon too!

and FYI, this has been discussed MANY times LONG before those two threads you mentioned above! Those threads were actually resurrecting our original discussions on the subject!

[dandykong]

If level creation tools are ever added, then there will probably be one room that you enter on the main server, and a door that gives you a dungeon selection menu when clicked. However, the dungeons would still not affect your character in any way in order to avoid the creation of XP farms and superweapons like the Indestructible Elemental Blade that I mentioned earlier. This would also protect players from dangerous custom weapons like eternal wands that rapid-fire fireballs, are usable in public areas, and affect players.

[Dunsany1]

An interesting discussion. As a long-time player of NWN1, I'm a big fan of user-made content. Most of my best experiences playing NWN came from user-made questlines, some of which were beautifully made and written. As for user made content in DDO, if there's no way to carry over loot and xp from custom made dungeons to the main game, then I'm not sure I'd be all that interested. It would mean you'd effectively have two games running concurrently and I can't see that being especially popular.

Some means of either limiting the toolkit so it's impossible to make the kind of uber-item mentioned earlier (and I can't imagine it'd be all that difficult - like an earlier poster, I'd favour set loot lists etc) and/or a way of designating a dungeon's level automatically (i.e. it's assessed by the toolkit and given a level based on the CR and number of mobs, the number of traps etc) would be needed to make the user-designed content compatible with the official stuff.

I can also see the need for a testing area so players can run through a quest before it goes live. If I'm Turbine, the quality control aspect of letting players loose with a toolkit would be a bit of a concern. Getting the community to do it for me would be a neat solution.

I'm sure it's do-able. The issue, I suppose, is how high on Turbine's list of priorities it is.

Daine's point about a prospective toolkit (and the content it produces) being made available through Turbine points makes a lot of sense to me - more than making it VIP only does at any rate.

Regards,

D1