Meteor Swarm useless?

[Serakan]

is there ever a reason to use Meteor Swarm over delayed blast fireball? A DDO sorc/wiz with level 9 spells is really nothing like a PnP sorc/wiz, that's for dang sure. Gotta maintain the class "balance"

[Junts]

meteor swarm can be rather nice if you pick up the regalia of the pheonix and use its superior inferno 9 clicky .. if you are generally aiming downward (ie from a jump) at the mob, meteor swarm will do 24d6 worth of damage instead of 20d6.

[Angelus_dead]

is there ever a reason to use Meteor Swarm over delayed blast fireball?

Meteors has over triple the range of a Fireball... I can't think of a place where that's truly useful, but it's a possibility.

There's also the issue of if you need a spell to DPS Epic Rayium, but you'd be better off asking someone to hit him with a stick.

If you want AOE DPS on something with fire immunity or evasion, it's better than nothing.

[Junts]

Meteors has over triple the range of a Fireball... I can't think of a place where that's truly useful, but it's a possibility.

There's also the issue of if you need a spell to DPS Epic Rayium, but you'd be better off asking someone to hit him with a stick.

If you want AOE DPS on something with fire immunity or evasion, it's better than nothing.

The main problem with meteor swarm is that the arcing **** means that if you fire it across a straight floor at a foe, only 2 of the 3 meteors will hit it most of the time.

You need to be shooting downward at the foe to hit them with all 3 meteors, and if you do that and are using superior inferno 9, it's better damage than delayed blast fireball, unless the foe has fire resistance.

[Sirea]

Meteor Swarm + Regalia of the Phoenix + Abbot or Epic Raiyum =

[sirgog]

Meteor Swarm + Regalia of the Phoenix + Abbot or Epic Raiyum =

It equals poor damage, against a foe that you can't do much else to at all.

[Sirea]

It equals poor damage, against a foe that you can't do much else to at all.

To each their own, I guess.

[Junts]

It equals poor damage, against a foe that you can't do much else to at all.

Actually, if your dc is good, there's -no character- on DDO that does more damage than a sorceror rotating between dbf, disintegrate and meteor swarm as fast as they can on the Black Abbot. 500ish (1350 crits 18%) + 880ish (+1320 crits 9%) + 80 + 80 + 80 + 40 + 40 + 40, each of which has an 18% chance to crit as well (around 260ish for the 80s and 100ish for the 40s) every 3 seconds.

It takes a full sorc around 55-65 seconds to deplete their bar doing that, which is both about as long as the fight usually takes and single-handedly worth 15-20% of the Abbot's hit points. It's over 650 DPS. That's more than high end dps builds do vs critable mobs .. against the Abbot, no melee does half that.

While Raiyum is another story (reflex save, half damage from fire on top of that), there is nothing better at dpsing the black abbot than a sorceror.

Wizards have more problems due to the smaller bar and, more importantly, the excessively long cooldowns (7 instead of 3 sec for meteor swarm, for example)

8 sorcerors with that clicky could kill the black abbot in about 30 seconds.

[Depravity]

The main problem with meteor swarm is that the arcing **** means that if you fire it across a straight floor at a foe, only 2 of the 3 meteors will hit it most of the time.

You need to be shooting downward at the foe to hit them with all 3 meteors, and if you do that and are using superior inferno 9, it's better damage than delayed blast fireball, unless the foe has fire resistance.

3? You mean 4...unless you're one of those tall people.
Tested with my halfling wizard - he fired 4 meteors, that almost always hit across the flat. Any sort of deviation in the floor did, indeed, muck it up. Between the spread they fired on and the width of the collison boxes, they were also very dicey around any sort of vertical obstruction, like crates and doorways.
Guildy's warforged was lucky if he saw 3, and the halfling usually only got two if he jumped.
There's something definitively "borked" with swarm, that's for certain.
I also had better luck targeting and then using the click-drag mouselook to aim slightly up.

[Junts]

3? You mean 4...unless you're one of those tall people.
Tested with my halfling wizard - he fired 4 meteors, that almost always hit across the flat. Any sort of deviation in the floor did, indeed, muck it up. Between the spread they fired on and the width of the collison boxes, they were also very dicey around any sort of vertical obstruction, like crates and doorways.
Guildy's warforged was lucky if he saw 3, and the halfling usually only got two if he jumped.
There's something definitively "borked" with swarm, that's for certain.
I also had better luck targeting and then using the click-drag mouselook to aim slightly up.

Keep in mind that meteor swarm will display two separate damage numbers per meteor that hits: one for the 6d6, save for half fire, and one for the 2d6, no save bludgeon

Unless you see 8 numbers every time you cast a meteor swarm, you are not hitting iwth 4 meteors. I have never, once, done so.

[Depravity]

Keep in mind that meteor swarm will display two separate damage numbers per meteor that hits: one for the 6d6, save for half fire, and one for the 2d6, no save bludgeon

Unless you see 8 numbers every time you cast a meteor swarm, you are not hitting iwth 4 meteors. I have never, once, done so.

I've seen the 8. Again, it seems to be related to height/movement of the character. Still halfing saw 4, jumping halfling saw 2, standing WF saw 2 or 3.
On the gripping hand, this is a really weird problem, so who knows what's actually causing it.
Wish I could go test, but that halfling was my first choice for a reincarnation, so he's currently at level 4.

[Junts]

I've seen the 8. Again, it seems to be related to height/movement of the character. Still halfing saw 4, jumping halfling saw 2, standing WF saw 2 or 3.
On the gripping hand, this is a really weird problem, so who knows what's actually causing it.
Wish I could go test, but that halfling was my first choice for a reincarnation, so he's currently at level 4.

My human gets 2, even jumping much of the time, unless I am standing physically above the mob, for example, standing on the perches raining almost straight down on Raiyum's head, I hit him with 3. I have never, ever hit anything with 4.

[Depravity]

My human gets 2, even jumping much of the time, unless I am standing physically above the mob, for example, standing on the perches raining almost straight down on Raiyum's head, I hit him with 3. I have never, ever hit anything with 4. (emphasis added)

Since you are proving to be remarkably deft when it comes to missing the point I'm trying to make (or I'm inept at making it), I will re-iterate with some emphasis.
Your acromegalic human is too tall, and has a distressing lack of pie in his diet, which comes with the complication of not being able to fire a full meteor swarm.
My properly sized halfling, strong on his mostly-pie diet (okay, all pie with the occasional wedge of cheese), has the added bonus of getting 4 shots from a meteor swarm.
The full swarm seems to be tied to either
A) height or
B) race.
Since we're talking about a three dimensional space, with spheres that burst at the slightest hint of contact with anything, a theorized "casting window" that all spells must exit through* seems more likely than the devs just handing halflings the uber meteor skills. Further supporting evidence is that the jumping halfling gets similarly hosed to any other race. If you know a dwarf caster, having them test may be worthwhile.

Combat log for the non-believers. Count the impacts, please.

*Assumptions:
Said window would have a vertical origin based off the level of the feet of the caster, and be of a universal size.
To make graphics look nice, origin points for casting effects would start at the level of hands of the caster model.
Halflings would hence have more space between the their hands and the top of said window.
Some dev had a reason or derangment making a colision check immediately in front of the character for spells seem desireable.
Also, IIRC, you tall folk have burst effect appear immediately in front of you when you try to cast meteor swarm. Halflings don't see this. (bonus test - cast in a brawl pit w/ an assistant standing just behind you)

[Junts]

Since you are proving to be remarkably deft when it comes to missing the point I'm trying to make (or I'm inept at making it), I will re-iterate with some emphasis.
Your acromegalic human is too tall, and has a distressing lack of pie in his diet, which comes with the complication of not being able to fire a full meteor swarm.
My properly sized halfling, strong on his mostly-pie diet (okay, all pie with the occasional wedge of cheese), has the added bonus of getting 4 shots from a meteor swarm.
The full swarm seems to be tied to either
A) height or
B) race.
Since we're talking about a three dimensional space, with spheres that burst at the slightest hint of contact with anything, a theorized "casting window" that all spells must exit through* seems more likely than the devs just handing halflings the uber meteor skills. Further supporting evidence is that the jumping halfling gets similarly hosed to any other race. If you know a dwarf caster, having them test may be worthwhile.

Combat log for the non-believers. Count the impacts, please.

*Assumptions:
Said window would have a vertical origin based off the level of the feet of the caster, and be of a universal size.
To make graphics look nice, origin points for casting effects would start at the level of hands of the caster model.
Halflings would hence have more space between the their hands and the top of said window.
Some dev had a reason or derangment making a colision check immediately in front of the character for spells seem desireable.
Also, IIRC, you tall folk have burst effect appear immediately in front of you when you try to cast meteor swarm. Halflings don't see this. (bonus test - cast in a brawl pit w/ an assistant standing just behind you)

Oh, no, I believe you, I was just illustrating that it's ********

[Samadhi]

Keep in mind that meteor swarm will display two separate damage numbers per meteor that hits: one for the 6d6, save for half fire, and one for the 2d6, no save bludgeon

Unless you see 8 numbers every time you cast a meteor swarm, you are not hitting iwth 4 meteors. I have never, once, done so.

I have hit 8. But I definitely agree it is an overly rare occurrence.

[Depravity]

Oh, no, I believe you, I was just illustrating that it's ********

That it is, for a certainty.

[Shade]

No matter how you wanna spin it, it's utter **** versus DBF.

In any realistic combat scenario, due to major issues with the spells hit detection. 99% of casts will only do 3 hits in BEST CASE scenerio. A realistic average would be 2.5 hits. As many hits while mving only ever do 2, and vs very fast moving targets your lucky to get 1 hit.

Add in the minor fire resist x3.. Versus 1 big shot.

Add in the limited duration of the regalia clicky. Versus ease of use of a super comb VII weapon/

Add in the slower cast and higher cost of the spell.

Add in the redicules arcing effect that NEVER actaully helps you and only hinders you.

Then the higher mana cost.. The longer cooldown.

And no, the range sucks. It's about equal to delayed blast fireball. The graphic will appear to go further, but it will never register a hit at maximum range - tho the game will let u cast it and waste your mana, unlike dbf.

Meh. Garbage spell.

[Sirea]

No matter how you wanna spin it, it's utter **** versus DBF.

In any realistic combat scenario, due to major issues with the spells hit detection. 99% of casts will only do 3 hits in BEST CASE scenerio. A realistic average would be 2.5 hits. As many hits while mving only ever do 2, and vs very fast moving targets your lucky to get 1 hit.

Add in the minor fire resist x3.. Versus 1 big shot.

Add in the limited duration of the regalia clicky. Versus ease of use of a super comb VII weapon/

Add in the slower cast and higher cost of the spell.

Add in the redicules arcing effect that NEVER actaully helps you and only hinders you.

Then the higher mana cost.. The longer cooldown.

And no, the range sucks. It's about equal to delayed blast fireball. The graphic will appear to go further, but it will never register a hit at maximum range - tho the game will let u cast it and waste your mana, unlike dbf.

Meh. Garbage spell.

Of course we all know a sorceror's worthless unless they're giving you haste, right?

[Shima-ra]

With Regalia, it is a really good spell.
You can't trust the numbers you see cause you dont see all of them.
But you can trust the awesome feeling of seeing a crowd desintegrate in flames with just one spell.

It is really really hard to aim tho. Your best bet is to jump everytime.
Sometimes you kill everyone in just one cast, sometimes you barely hurt anyone.

[Shade]

Of course we all know a sorceror's worthless unless they're giving you haste, right?

Yea when I run my sorc, I get other sorcs to haste and buff me, so I can use more mana on nukes that actaully work.