Meteor Swarm useless?

[Serakan]

is there ever a reason to use Meteor Swarm over delayed blast fireball? A DDO sorc/wiz with level 9 spells is really nothing like a PnP sorc/wiz, that's for dang sure. Gotta maintain the class "balance"

[Junts]

meteor swarm can be rather nice if you pick up the regalia of the pheonix and use its superior inferno 9 clicky .. if you are generally aiming downward (ie from a jump) at the mob, meteor swarm will do 24d6 worth of damage instead of 20d6.

[Angelus_dead]

is there ever a reason to use Meteor Swarm over delayed blast fireball?

Meteors has over triple the range of a Fireball... I can't think of a place where that's truly useful, but it's a possibility.

There's also the issue of if you need a spell to DPS Epic Rayium, but you'd be better off asking someone to hit him with a stick.

If you want AOE DPS on something with fire immunity or evasion, it's better than nothing.

[Junts]

Meteors has over triple the range of a Fireball... I can't think of a place where that's truly useful, but it's a possibility.

There's also the issue of if you need a spell to DPS Epic Rayium, but you'd be better off asking someone to hit him with a stick.

If you want AOE DPS on something with fire immunity or evasion, it's better than nothing.

The main problem with meteor swarm is that the arcing **** means that if you fire it across a straight floor at a foe, only 2 of the 3 meteors will hit it most of the time.

You need to be shooting downward at the foe to hit them with all 3 meteors, and if you do that and are using superior inferno 9, it's better damage than delayed blast fireball, unless the foe has fire resistance.

[Sirea]

Meteor Swarm + Regalia of the Phoenix + Abbot or Epic Raiyum =

[sirgog]

Meteor Swarm + Regalia of the Phoenix + Abbot or Epic Raiyum =

It equals poor damage, against a foe that you can't do much else to at all.

[Sirea]

It equals poor damage, against a foe that you can't do much else to at all.

To each their own, I guess.

[Junts]

It equals poor damage, against a foe that you can't do much else to at all.

Actually, if your dc is good, there's -no character- on DDO that does more damage than a sorceror rotating between dbf, disintegrate and meteor swarm as fast as they can on the Black Abbot. 500ish (1350 crits 18%) + 880ish (+1320 crits 9%) + 80 + 80 + 80 + 40 + 40 + 40, each of which has an 18% chance to crit as well (around 260ish for the 80s and 100ish for the 40s) every 3 seconds.

It takes a full sorc around 55-65 seconds to deplete their bar doing that, which is both about as long as the fight usually takes and single-handedly worth 15-20% of the Abbot's hit points. It's over 650 DPS. That's more than high end dps builds do vs critable mobs .. against the Abbot, no melee does half that.

While Raiyum is another story (reflex save, half damage from fire on top of that), there is nothing better at dpsing the black abbot than a sorceror.

Wizards have more problems due to the smaller bar and, more importantly, the excessively long cooldowns (7 instead of 3 sec for meteor swarm, for example)

8 sorcerors with that clicky could kill the black abbot in about 30 seconds.

[Depravity]

The main problem with meteor swarm is that the arcing **** means that if you fire it across a straight floor at a foe, only 2 of the 3 meteors will hit it most of the time.

You need to be shooting downward at the foe to hit them with all 3 meteors, and if you do that and are using superior inferno 9, it's better damage than delayed blast fireball, unless the foe has fire resistance.

3? You mean 4...unless you're one of those tall people.
Tested with my halfling wizard - he fired 4 meteors, that almost always hit across the flat. Any sort of deviation in the floor did, indeed, muck it up. Between the spread they fired on and the width of the collison boxes, they were also very dicey around any sort of vertical obstruction, like crates and doorways.
Guildy's warforged was lucky if he saw 3, and the halfling usually only got two if he jumped.
There's something definitively "borked" with swarm, that's for certain.
I also had better luck targeting and then using the click-drag mouselook to aim slightly up.

[Junts]

3? You mean 4...unless you're one of those tall people.
Tested with my halfling wizard - he fired 4 meteors, that almost always hit across the flat. Any sort of deviation in the floor did, indeed, muck it up. Between the spread they fired on and the width of the collison boxes, they were also very dicey around any sort of vertical obstruction, like crates and doorways.
Guildy's warforged was lucky if he saw 3, and the halfling usually only got two if he jumped.
There's something definitively "borked" with swarm, that's for certain.
I also had better luck targeting and then using the click-drag mouselook to aim slightly up.

Keep in mind that meteor swarm will display two separate damage numbers per meteor that hits: one for the 6d6, save for half fire, and one for the 2d6, no save bludgeon

Unless you see 8 numbers every time you cast a meteor swarm, you are not hitting iwth 4 meteors. I have never, once, done so.

[Depravity]

Keep in mind that meteor swarm will display two separate damage numbers per meteor that hits: one for the 6d6, save for half fire, and one for the 2d6, no save bludgeon

Unless you see 8 numbers every time you cast a meteor swarm, you are not hitting iwth 4 meteors. I have never, once, done so.

I've seen the 8. Again, it seems to be related to height/movement of the character. Still halfing saw 4, jumping halfling saw 2, standing WF saw 2 or 3.
On the gripping hand, this is a really weird problem, so who knows what's actually causing it.
Wish I could go test, but that halfling was my first choice for a reincarnation, so he's currently at level 4.

[Samadhi]

Keep in mind that meteor swarm will display two separate damage numbers per meteor that hits: one for the 6d6, save for half fire, and one for the 2d6, no save bludgeon

Unless you see 8 numbers every time you cast a meteor swarm, you are not hitting iwth 4 meteors. I have never, once, done so.

I have hit 8. But I definitely agree it is an overly rare occurrence.

[ninjaeli]

[QUOTE=Angelus_dead;2575059]Meteors has over triple the range of a Fireball... I can't think of a place where that's truly useful, but it's a possibility.

meteor swarm does shoots 4 meteors+ does fire and bludgeon dmg triple the range... a beholder will not last long

[Seliana]

The spell worked reliably in Reaver's Fate raid tonight as well, though I only noted 2 Meteors per casting

Can we get word from the Dev's if this is going to be fixed anytime soon? Its a very nice spell and if it wasn't for this bug I would use it instead of swap it for something less useful on my sorc.

Please please fix this spell Dev's! It has so much potential if it would only work correctly.

[Monkey_Archer]

While the spell is tricky to aim, if used correctly it is much more damage then DBF, and still more damage on average if you understand the basics of how to aim it...

DBF = 20D6 damage
Meteor Swarm = 32D6 when used properly, 24D6 reliably, or 16D6 if you cant aim

Targeting Tips:
-Due to how the meteors arc, larger targets are easier to hit with more meteors
-Targets with fire resistance are bad choices as it applies to each meteor

Aiming Tips:
Each meteor tends to arc semi-randomly...
-If you just aim straight, one or two meteors will usually arc low and hit the ground before reaching the target resulting in only 2 or 3 meteors hitting
-Perch locations or jump casting and aiming down will usually give you 3 hits, depending on how close you are to your target.
-Getting all 4 to hit takes either luck, or careful target selection and aiming.
One example:
Stand on the ground at about 1/2 of the max range of the meteor swarm and aim at the head of a large target (giants, etc)... This will result in the low arcing meteors to hit the giant's feet instead of the ground in front and almost always results in 4 hits.


Side note...
Perhaps there is a difference between sorcs and wizards cooldown with this spell... I have dont have it on my sorc so i cant try it there.... but the cooldown on my wizard is much shorter for meteor swarm then it is for DBF

[Samadhi]

As far as the DBF vs. Meteor Swarm aspect of this conversation, I'm tending to go with Monkey Archer in that, typically, I hit with 3 meteors and, therefore, reliably more damage then DBF. Please note I rarely do any kind of special aiming with this spell but - to go along with the casting character's size theory - my wizard that uses this spell is a dwarf. Either way, after using this even more since this thread first popped up, I would say my flat-footed casting statistics are circa: 90% 3 meteors, 5% 2, 5% 4. Whether you consider this "yay for dwarf stubbiness" or something else; I've found the spell effective.

[Shade]

While the spell is tricky to aim, if used correctly it is much more damage then DBF, and still more damage on average if you understand the basics of how to aim it...

DBF = 20D6 damage
Meteor Swarm = 32D6 when used properly, 24D6 reliably, or 16D6 if you cant aim

Targeting Tips:
-Due to how the meteors arc, larger targets are easier to hit with more meteors
-Targets with fire resistance are bad choices as it applies to each meteor

It's way less damage. Because the where nuking really shine isn't single taget.. And trying to land meteor swarm against multiple targets is a joke. You can never aim it so it hits everything, unlike delayed blast which is very easy to hit everything. Delayed blast does 40,60,80,100 or 200+ D6 in cases where you put it to the best use. Meteor swarm you try to aim in the middle of a pack of mobs and it shoots off into the freaking ground right by your feet doing nothing.

Also your numbers are plain wrong. Meteor Swarm does at best 18D6 base damage for most sorcs (realisticlty even less as the average sorc sucks at manual targetting, I think less then 10% even know how to use mouselook, except seposedly the rare halfling sorc who uses hacks to make it work correctly) .. And 6d6 Bludgeoning damage..

You can't just add them together and say thats more then DBF, it doesn't work that way. First off your fire enhancements and fire items don't apply to the bludgeoning dmg, so it does almost nothing in comparison to the real fire dmg.

Then there's the triple fire resist, which almost every target people say it's seposedly worth using against has.

DQ2 epic - lol she has mega fire resist and insane reflex saves. Your not doing **** with that spell. I dare you to go into the raid with an entire group of casters using the spell with the regalia, tell me how badly you whipe. Melee and Ranged do the real damage in this raid like it or not.
Abbot - Pfft. It's less DPS then delayed blast fireball with it's much longer cooldown, and either way it's not huge DPS - the abbot has a very solid reflex save so he is saving against allot of those meteors (he gets 3-4 saves per cast). A caster with an average ecovation DC can do as much if not more dmg with tossing rocks.
Even then, like most raids no one cares how much damage you do to the abbot as a caster as long as you handle your primary roles - handling the ice platform, killing trash and breaking encasements, handle all of those roles very well and you are contributing a million times more then the stupid caster spamming his whole bar on meteor swarm and not helping with the important tasks.

[Samadhi]

Abbot - Pfft. It's less DPS then delayed blast fireball with it's much longer cooldown, and either way it's not huge DPS - the abbot has a very solid reflex save so he is saving against allot of those meteors (he gets 3-4 saves per cast). A caster with an average ecovation DC can do as much if not more dmg with tossing rocks.
Even then, like most raids no one cares how much damage you do to the abbot as a caster as long as you handle your primary roles - handling the ice platform, killing trash and breaking encasements, handle all of those roles very well and you are contributing a million times more then the stupid caster spamming his whole bar on meteor swarm and not helping with the important tasks.

Wait huh??

1) DBF has a reflex save too - not sure what you are getting at with that comment.
2) Much longer cooldown is missing the point. At least in the groups I typically run abbot with, it is a struggle to have an empty manapool before he is dead. Spam every spell that is going to do any damage (as Junts said, alternating DBF, meteors, disintegrate is the way to go). The cooldown timer is no more than maybe what 2 seconds longer anyhow.
3) What are these "roles" you are talking about? The abbot has virtually no HP. If you have four competent casters in there, he is dead so quick that you probably won't even see an Inferno. Wasting mana spamming your whole bar? Give me a break - just make him dead and move on to the next run.

[Battleworm]

It's way less damage. Because the where nuking really shine isn't single taget.. And trying to land meteor swarm against multiple targets is a joke. You can never aim it so it hits everything, unlike delayed blast which is very easy to hit everything. Delayed blast does 40,60,80,100 or 200+ D6 in cases where you put it to the best use. Meteor swarm you try to aim in the middle of a pack of mobs and it shoots off into the freaking ground right by your feet doing nothing.

Also your numbers are plain wrong. Meteor Swarm does at best 18D6 base damage for most sorcs (realisticlty even less as the average sorc sucks at manual targetting, I think less then 10% even know how to use mouselook, except seposedly the rare halfling sorc who uses hacks to make it work correctly) .. And 6d6 Bludgeoning damage..

You can't just add them together and say thats more then DBF, it doesn't work that way. First off your fire enhancements and fire items don't apply to the bludgeoning dmg, so it does almost nothing in comparison to the real fire dmg.

Then there's the triple fire resist, which almost every target people say it's seposedly worth using against has.

DQ2 epic - lol she has mega fire resist and insane reflex saves. Your not doing **** with that spell. I dare you to go into the raid with an entire group of casters using the spell with the regalia, tell me how badly you whipe. Melee and Ranged do the real damage in this raid like it or not.
Abbot - Pfft. It's less DPS then delayed blast fireball with it's much longer cooldown, and either way it's not huge DPS - the abbot has a very solid reflex save so he is saving against allot of those meteors (he gets 3-4 saves per cast). A caster with an average ecovation DC can do as much if not more dmg with tossing rocks.
Even then, like most raids no one cares how much damage you do to the abbot as a caster as long as you handle your primary roles - handling the ice platform, killing trash and breaking encasements, handle all of those roles very well and you are contributing a million times more then the stupid caster spamming his whole bar on meteor swarm and not helping with the important tasks.

You're right geez what am i thinking?Obviously the bestest method is to not even bring a caster,One barb with 11 clerics should be the way to go...

[maddmatt70]

I am in agreement that meteor swarm is useless. Regardless of its technical issues, it just has so little use at the end game due to fire resistance on all the major bosses. The only real exception is the abbot raid, but even there it has questionable use with all the other alternatives available.

One of the three other spells that a sorceror would give up to have meteor swarm really cinches the deal for me: energy drain, wail of the banshee, and mass hold monster. For some reason alot of sorcerors think its o.k. to not have mass hold monster which is a specific type of spell that only wiz/sorcs have. There is no other mass monster debilitating spell which leads to insta criticals in DDO. This spell works great on alot of the epic quests. Wail of the banshees is the wiz/sorc insta mass kill spell of choice although alot of mobs are immune to it in epic it is still useful in alot of end game content and for running in non end game content. Energy drain is twice as effective as enervate which is handy although for me this is the third spell of choice for sorcerors because clerics get this spell and sorcerors could just have enervate. Meteor Swarm is number four for me.