Stop Dumb Changes

[Letrii]

I played when they supposedly nerfed swing speed, I never noticed a difference.

[VtecFiend]

I played when they supposedly nerfed swing speed, I never noticed a difference.

REALLY??? I felt like I was watching the game on slowmotion Tivo lol.

[TreknaQudane]

I played when they supposedly nerfed swing speed, I never noticed a difference.

And that was still more than 10 times the speed of 1 per six seconds.

[Borror0]

I played when they supposedly nerfed swing speed, I never noticed a difference.

That is not something I would brag about.

[Mylon]

The end result was that the only weapon wanted for a non-boss mob was a wounding of puncturing rapier, unless the mob was immune to con damage (undead/construct). It did not produce very good game play. It was changed after wounding rapiers of puncturing were 20 times more valuable than anything else in the game, and even barbarian s were built piercing-specced around rapiers because itw as better than killing things with an axe and strength.

That's just the side effect of giving every mob 20x more hp than it should have.

Many of the changes in this game truly baffle me.

Mobs have 20x more HP than normal to counter the fact that the game only throws us up against maybe 3-4 at a time, plus the occasional big battle with 10-12. This excessive amount of HP is also to counter the fact that players have enhancements that boost their effective level by 2-4 or more and are decked out Monty Hall style with tons of loot. Then to reward this "make the red bar go down" style SR is eliminated for nuke-style spells, which already are super-weak because they can't do nearly enough damage anyway.

[Maegin]

The real problem isn't the stat damagers, or the nerf to them. The real problem is that attack speed is so incredibly fast and to-hits and damage are so incredibly high for the PC's that the HP,Saves,Immunities, etc has to be scaled out of this world to make the game even minorly interesting.

Take a look at the Demon Queen. Know how she runs up to you and smacks the **** outta you in like 10 seconds? All you see is a flurry of red numbers (no misses) in the 30's and 40's and then you are a soulstone. Doesn't matter if you are sporting 200 hp or 500.

Well, guess what, that's what a mob sees when you come running into combat. Every buffed melee specced PC over level 12 hits with the speed and damage of Lalliat. You swing ridiculously fast, hit constantly, and hit for massive damage. you can't keep your mobs at strict PnP rules while allowing your PC to triple or quadruple the DPS possible in PnP or the game will be terrible.

Given that DDO represents the worst possible Monty Haul campaign environment (where most everyone has top of the line magic items, stacks of potions and scrolls and "unique" loot that all party members have), you have no choice but to nerf certain features or massively buff the mobs to keep the competitive balance.

It's not dumbing down for other MMO's players, it's just the nature of a perpetual environment that an MMO creates vs. the much smaller duration of a typical PnP campaign where you can't grind and re-run the same PC ad infinium and force the DM to constantly come up with new, challenging content for that twinked PC.

EDIT: This is a strictly melee look. Getting into mana pools, rest shrines in quests and unlimited mana pots and their impact on caster DPS and party healing capabilities vs. PnP and the impact that has on mob challenge is an entirely other angle. You just have to scale the challenge when you do these things and modify the rules on both sides to create balance.

Post of the Week. Hands down, bar none. Pure ftw.

[Korvek]

Now if someone would make a true port of D&D to a MMO.

Why invest in something that's more likely to fail than not?

A straight port of D&D probably could not work as an MMO, especially considering the finagling it takes to make it work in its intended setting. House-ruling exists for a reason.

It would get some people out of name recognition who would probably cancel after seeing the horrible gameplay.

Right now, DDO is pretty much the closest there is and the closest there will be until WotC lets someone else make one, which I don't see in the near future (Not a 3.5e version at any rate).

[toughguyjoe]

This thread is awesome.

Letrii. Put your toons in your sig and server name or stop posting

Its hard to believe you saw something that happened a while ago with a Jun 2009 join date, even if it only for the forums.

[Junts]

That's just the side effect of giving every mob 20x more hp than it should have.

Many of the changes in this game truly baffle me.

Mobs have 20x more HP than normal to counter the fact that the game only throws us up against maybe 3-4 at a time, plus the occasional big battle with 10-12. This excessive amount of HP is also to counter the fact that players have enhancements that boost their effective level by 2-4 or more and are decked out Monty Hall style with tons of loot. Then to reward this "make the red bar go down" style SR is eliminated for nuke-style spells, which already are super-weak because they can't do nearly enough damage anyway.

Not sure which game you're playing, because pnp nukes are almost never subject to spell resistance anyway. The only 'rule adjustment' that benefits nuke spells in DDO (besides no friendly fire) is the lack of touch/ranged touch attacks, and the fact that all touch and ranged touch spells are consequently no-save guaranteed hits as long as the mob doesn't dodge the collision with your projectile.

[toughguyjoe]

Not sure which game you're playing, because pnp nukes are almost never subject to spell resistance anyway. The only 'rule adjustment' that benefits nuke spells in DDO (besides no friendly fire) is the lack of touch/ranged touch attacks, and the fact that all touch and ranged touch spells are consequently no-save guaranteed hits as long as the mob doesn't dodge the collision with your projectile.

Well, actually most Non-Acid spells that are level 4ish and below DO offer spell resistance checks. Namely Burning hands, Fireball, Lightning bolt, etc.

[Letrii]

This thread is awesome.

Letrii. Put your toons in your sig and server name or stop posting

Its hard to believe you saw something that happened a while ago with a Jun 2009 join date, even if it only for the forums.

I had an old account but I tried logging into it and only my LoTRO account shows up for it and Turbine can't find it, so I had to buy a new copy of DDO and start over.

Look at my sig, that is the only toon I play, for now at least (if I could even log in).

[Turial]

Well, actually most Non-Acid spells that are level 4ish and below DO offer spell resistance checks. Namely Burning hands, Fireball, Lightning bolt, etc.

Those are saves to avoid damage or take half damage rather then spell resistance. Unless something recently changed only non-damaging spells are affected by SR which is to the benifit of players more often than not.

[mashedpotato82]

actually im vip, and yes new as well.
but im not saying make the game easier, for the same reason playing games with cheats is stupid. if anything leathality makes it more interesting. i think things that kill us should kill them, and im sure if your toon drops to 0 CON your screwed.
...anyways im not going to get into a ***** fest because i am new (1 character lvl 10), maybe once i've gotten more knowlegable with this game...

[sephiroth1084]

Those are saves to avoid damage or take half damage rather then spell resistance. Unless something recently changed only non-damaging spells are affected by SR which is to the benifit of players more often than not.

The SR thing you're thinking of is a change made in DDO.

Here's a link to the spell entry for Fireball, the quintessential blasty spell, from the SRD 3.5: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fireball.htm

"Spell Resistance: Yes"

[Turial]

The SR thing you're thinking of is a change made in DDO.

Here's a link to the spell entry for Fireball, the quintessential blasty spell, from the SRD 3.5: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fireball.htm

"Spell Resistance: Yes"

Understood, but the context was in the realm of DDO where damage spells don't get blocked by SR. Much to our benafit.

[Letrii]

Monks are supposed to be mage killers, but those are enemies that tear me up the most. I keep losing half my health to one caster spamming no save spells. Now some of that is due to atrocious lag that make me swing 20 times to get a single hit, allowing them to cast more spells on me.

[Letrii]

Have i been rude somewhere in this thread? Negative rep is not a tool for expressing disagreement with my views, it is a tool for marking those who behave in a detrimental fashion towards a friendly and functional forum.

[toughguyjoe]

Understood, but the context was in the realm of DDO where damage spells don't get blocked by SR. Much to our benafit.

Sorry old chap. I was responding to Junts assertion that most PNP Nukes had no spell resistance attatched to them,and I was referring to the fact that Myriad Nuke spells in the PNP game DO have to roll against Spell Resistance. I do see where the confusion comes from, I didn't really word my post well enough.

It is a fact that many PNP spells that were effected by spell resistance DO NOT require spell resistance rolls in DDO.

[toughguyjoe]

Monks are supposed to be mage killers, but those are enemies that tear me up the most. I keep losing half my health to one caster spamming no save spells. Now some of that is due to atrocious lag that make me swing 20 times to get a single hit, allowing them to cast more spells on me.

Shield Clicky.

Acid Resist Potion.

Serpentine Movement.

Shall I go on?


Oh and if you lag is seriously that bad, take your computer somewhere and get it fixed. Or throw it away and buy one thats not from the early 90's

I run a computer from HP that i bought about a year ago straight out of the box. 2mb ram, dualcore processor. Its really not fancy at all. Paid $750. I have normal Internet through my television service. My lag is not effecting my gameplay. I'm not doing ANYTHING special to combat it.

[Letrii]

The lag is my university limiting my bandwidth, not anything I can do about that. How do any of those things defend against Searing Light, and what is Serpentine Movement?