Stop Dumb Changes

[Turial]

... The real problem is that attack speed is so incredibly fast and to-hits and damage are so incredibly high for the PC's that the HP,Saves,Immunities, etc has to be scaled out of this world to make the game even minorly interesting. ....

If we didn't swing this fast there would be worse problems as the game wouldn't be interesting enough or fun enough to play. Remember a round in pnp represents approximately 6 seconds...so at low levels you could make 1 attack per 6 seconds.

[Oreg]

The real problem isn't the stat damagers, or the nerf to them. The real problem is that attack speed is so incredibly fast and to-hits and damage are so incredibly high for the PC's that the HP,Saves,Immunities, etc has to be scaled out of this world to make the game even minorly interesting.

Take a look at the Demon Queen. Know how she runs up to you and smacks the **** outta you in like 10 seconds? All you see is a flurry of red numbers (no misses) in the 30's and 40's and then you are a soulstone. Doesn't matter if you are sporting 200 hp or 500.

Well, guess what, that's what a mob sees when you come running into combat. Every buffed melee specced PC over level 12 hits with the speed and damage of Lalliat. You swing ridiculously fast, hit constantly, and hit for massive damage. you can't keep your mobs at strict PnP rules while allowing your PC to triple or quadruple the DPS possible in PnP or the game will be terrible.

Given that DDO represents the worst possible Monty Haul campaign environment (where most everyone has top of the line magic items, stacks of potions and scrolls and "unique" loot that all party members have), you have no choice but to nerf certain features or massively buff the mobs to keep the competitive balance.

It's not dumbing down for other MMO's players, it's just the nature of a perpetual environment that an MMO creates vs. the much smaller duration of a typical PnP campaign where you can't grind and re-run the same PC ad infinium and force the DM to constantly come up with new, challenging content for that twinked PC.

EDIT: This is a strictly melee look. Getting into mana pools, rest shrines in quests and unlimited mana pots and their impact on caster DPS and party healing capabilities vs. PnP and the impact that has on mob challenge is an entirely other angle. You just have to scale the challenge when you do these things and modify the rules on both sides to create balance.

Good Analysis.

[Letrii]

If we didn't swing this fast there would be worse problems as the game wouldn't be interesting enough or fun enough to play. Remember a round in pnp represents approximately 6 seconds...so at low levels you could make 1 attack per 6 seconds.

The game would be much be better balanced, IMO, if they had kept that scale.

[Turial]

The game would be much be better balanced, IMO, if they had kept that scale.

Do you realize how slow that is?

[Borror0]

The game would be much be better balanced, IMO, if they had kept that scale.

Balanced or not, it would be utterly boring.

Out of curiosity, how many swings per 6 seconds do you think a character has currently?

[QuantumFX]

Oh sure, let's throw the rules out the window because it trivializes content. Who really cares if it makes things easier? Personally, I play for fun not for the challenge.

That would have required Puncturing weapons to follow D&D rules correctly in the first place.

[Letrii]

Balanced or not, it would be utterly boring.

Out of curiosity, how many swings per 6 seconds do you think a character has currently?

Too many.

[Letrii]

That would have required Puncturing weapons to follow D&D rules correctly in the first place.

Was there any reason for them not to?

[VtecFiend]

Balanced or not, it would be utterly boring.

Out of curiosity, how many swings per 6 seconds do you think a character has currently?

Oh come on it would be GREAT.

Slash...

wait...

wait...

wait...

wait...

wait...

wait...

wait...

Click right mouse button faster and FASTER!!!

wait...

wait...

wait...


SLASH!


WOOT!!!!!!! man, that second swing was SO worth the wait!!!!

[VtecFiend]

Was there any reason for them not to?

Doesn't really matter if it did... simple wounding weapons were far more efficient killers than DPS when used as a group.


As much as the change disappointed me on loot, D&D loyalty and other levels, after living with it for a while I can say it was a good change and had a positive impact as a whole.

[Letrii]

I guess I am too much of a grognard to ever be completely satisfied with Turbine's continual bastardization of D&D.

[VtecFiend]

I guess I am too much of a grognard to ever be completely satisfied with Turbine's continual bastardization of D&D.

No one should be completely satisfied with it, the game is much better in fact in large part due to the people that are unsatisfied making it known so things could be changed. While i know it's not true D&D it is the closest, best option by far out there and at the same time one of the best MMO's that exist. Not too shabby really.

[Letrii]

Now if someone would make a true port of D&D to a MMO.

[Soulken]

Was there any reason for them not to?

Yes they would have been completely useless.

[Letrii]

Not useless for people that know what they are doing.

[Soulken]

Not useless for people that know what they are doing.

Yes compeltely useless since they would have very limited use against the highly inflated mobs we fight.

[VtecFiend]

Now if someone would make a true port of D&D to a MMO.

A video game that captured all the aspects of PnP D&D would be the largest programming undertaking in the history of mankind lol=)

But I can't wait for it either...

Here's hoping that is the good use artificial intelligence is put to rather than building skynet, artificial DM's! They self program campaigns and run them. Then they take your beer and say "hey, I spent all week prepping for this, the least you can do is spot me a couple bottles of beer"...

[Junts]

Too many.

The answer is 11-13 per hand. And when they slowed it down to 9-10, it felt slow and boring as hell.

I should do a fraps of 1 swing per 6 seconds for you .. you'd fall asleep. This is an active game.

[VtecFiend]

Yes compeltely useless since they would have very limited use against the highly inflated mobs we fight.

Not really true, as the named item from D&D that has puncturing on it also has wounding, if it was implemented JUST AS IT IS in pen and paper, it'd be reasonably useful at 0con=death.

[VtecFiend]

And when they slowed it down to 9-10, it felt slow and boring as hell.

That was a very dark time... I hid IRL till it passed lol.