What build did I see? WF Sorc DPS insanity...

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Have you really done the math on this? Mid-levels? Really? If you maximize every damage spell you toss out (probably not the best plan), saving a couple spell points per cast will then allow you to cast, what, one or two more spells before your mana bar is empty? Upper levels, where the savings may result in three or more additional spells able to be cast (and you're running out of things to spend action point on), yes, more valuable, but at mid-levels?

There are so few enhancemnets you need at low levels. Imp emp, imp max, damage lines, crit lines, 1-2 in sp lines, and that's basically it.

Taking II on both imps instead of I, saves you 5 sp per spell. And a fireball should be:
20 base + 25 maxi + 15 emp = 60-5 imp = 55 and with II instaed of I = 50 per cast.

Which means you save about 10% with II instead of I. and with about 600 sp at that level, you can cast 12 instead of 10 fireballs; which is 20% more damage output.

And yes, maxi + emp is 100% on at those levels, as there are so many shrines, and so few battles that needs to be taken care of.

[Club'in]

So, you cast fireball. Period. No other spells. No one to buff. You don't blur yourself, or nightshield, or toss out a hypnotism here or there? No resists? You don't even haste?

[Club'in]

Saving 10 SP from every spell you cast is pretty nice if you ask me.

Yes. Agreed. When we are talking about it equating to the ability to save a couple hundred spell points. Which isn't the case at level 7.

[Yargore]

Yes. Agreed. When we are talking about it equating to the ability to save a couple hundred spell points. Which isn't the case at level 7.

It doesn't have to save a couple of hundrer spell points per level to be very nice. Anyway, what else would you spend the APs on?
Specing for acid and fire instead of fire and metamagics is not so smart.

[Club'in]

It doesn't have to save a couple of hundrer spell points per level to be very nice. Anyway, what else would you spend the APs on?
Specing for acid and fire instead of fire and metamagics is not so smart.

Couldn't tell ya. My stupid browser doesn't fully load the list fields in the compendium, so a little hard to research it a little bit from work. My sorc is level 14, and yes, absolutely runs with the metamagics on full time, and the enhancements to reduce the spell points. I'm still not convinced it's worth it at the lower levels, though.

[Individual]

Fire / cold, is a superior combo, as the only spells you'll really need except CC before level 6, is scorching ray.

1>4 = hypno + run past + charm here and there + niacs the dungeon bosses (if needed)
4>6 = hypno + run past + scorching ray the boss
6>8 = fireball everything
8>10 = Firewall everything + fireballs
10>vale = firewall + cone of cold

Fire/Cold is only the lesser combo until level 8 for Sorcerers. It gets even better with twink items such as Molb's Fist(7) and Flame's Gift(9). Item wise, the only thing that Acid/Electric casters have going for them is Robe of Acid and the Iron Beads, but at that point you should have Lore and Potency to make up for it.

Since most players run with a group Fire/Cold is better, if you are soloing you cannot beat the Acid/Electric spells. This depends heavily on the quest however.

[Yargore]

Couldn't tell ya. My stupid browser doesn't fully load the list fields in the compendium, so a little hard to research it a little bit from work. My sorc is level 14, and yes, absolutely runs with the metamagics on full time, and the enhancements to reduce the spell points. I'm still not convinced it's worth it at the lower levels, though.

It's totaly worth it to take them at low levels, you need to spend APs to unlock higher tiers of fire damage etc.

[Club'in]

So, you cast fireball. Period. No other spells. No one to buff. You don't blur yourself, or nightshield, or toss out a hypnotism here or there? No resists? You don't even haste?

I notice you blithely skipped past this post...

[TheJusticar]

No, it really doesn't.

Unless by "skill and nuance" you mean "displace and polar ray"

Unless by "displace and polar ray" you mean soloing STK @ lvl16, you are irreparably trivializing soloing end game content.

[cluedout]

hehe you are all picking a fight you cannot win, yar and omni are correct 98.3% of the time, are complete elitist tards, and acually know what they are talking about. as much as i hate to say it, they are correct and that is exactly what you should do in the low level quests to get threw them as fast as possible.

now, i do not think that your goal is to get threw the low level quests as fast as possible so you can disregard omni and yars advice completely.

have a nice day,
Cluedout

[Varis]

I notice you blithely skipped past this post...

That is what I am going to do... no blur, no cc, no ottos... at 6th ill have fireball... and I will love it.

[Wizzly_Bear]

For those who mentioned buffing...displacement, blur, and haste can, and should be, scrolled on a lowbie sorc.

Regarding improved max/emp....I hold that they are worthless. Like I said earlier, if you need that extra 1 or 2 fireballs, you're doing it wrong and can just drink a pot anyway. Speccing for only 1 element instead of 2 is "not so smart," especially given that you already pointed out that there are far more shrines than you need.

[Montrose]

Unless by "displace and polar ray" you mean soloing STK @ lvl16, you are irreparably trivializing soloing end game content.

Really?

Ok, let's talk about end game content (I'll throw the reaver in there too, since it's raid, though no longer really end-game).

Reaver == displace and firewall

Bastion of power == invisiblity, displace and polar ray. Polar ray largely optional until the end fight.

Weapons shipment == displace and polar ray, or substitute polar ray with your favorite fog

Minsunder == displace and firewall, plus polar ray on the guys who are healed by fire

Tell me, in what non-raid end-game content do you not, for the most part, displace and blast?

You could argue that I left out "cast reconstruct every once in awhile to stay alive" or, possibly "equip your torc and CO item then shield block for awhile to get your mana back". But, really, playing a level 20 WF sorc is not a complex endeavor.

[ddoer]

I am assuming we are talking pre-WoF here. In the early (i.e. pre L8) levels there is much more synergy in
putting AP into acid/electric than Fire/Cold. IME, the most effective low level damage spells are Shocking
Grasp, Melf's and Acid Spray (AOE). You can then get Acid blast at level 6.

Melfs and shocking grasp? Are you joking?

Niacs, scorching ray and fireball is generally the only spells needed before you get FW. Burning hands might be useful, but niacs is usually good enough.

On what do you base this?

Acid Blast is simply superior to Fireball for the all the content where they are both applicable. Acid Spray is,
IMO, superior to burning hands for the same reason. Very little is immune or even has resistance to acid.

Shocking grasp does as much damage per SP as Niac's (unless your Niac's never gets saved - which I don't
believe).

I'm quite an old school sorc who mainly use Niac and fireball, and it works well. I somehow think Niac is an overpowered spell. Shocking Grasp is my third backup damage spell and I think it is way inferior to Niac in terms of damage.

However, to use Niac it requires some investment. double conjuration focus, conjuration item, eagle's splendor pots etc. in addition to ice lore + potency/freeze gear. And it doesn't work on every mob, e.g. it's very ineffective to shoot niac on spriders. web + niac is a perfect combo.

I got the idea to try out acid/electric and the new acid spells for a long time but never tried it. Changing spells take too long, and I don't have the superior acid/electric clickies. (not have a bracer so I use a conjuration and a fire/ice lore, together with superior inferno/freeze clickies)

[ForwardWu]

I think before lv 8, depends on what spells you have chosen you can be either fire/cold or acid/ele focus.

However, after lv 8, you cant avoid investing in fire/cold as you get wall of fire.

At the same time, if you can avoid doing all quests involving blackbone, congrat, you can simply ignore all thoes acid/ele spells and enhancement and rely on force type spells (if you picked any) or melee them...In my case I do have elec spells to kill those bones (esp ball light for me)

Overall speaking fire/cold is better than ele/fog, because (1) they have double damage vs some ice/fire mobs (2) wall of fire is the best aoe generally, espeically vs undead....

[Arctigis]

You said:
"very slow to cast which causes awkward targeting."
But it doesn't cause awkward targeting if you know how to use it.

Of course I know how to use it, it's not difficult is it? What I hate about it is the very slow cast time
which makes it miss a lot. I guess it's a question of playstyle - I prefer to be in the mix than sniping.

Except you forget one crucial detail, scorching ray is instant, melfs takes a minute to damage em. You run past the whole quests, come to boss, cast scorhing once or twice, and be done with it.

No I didn't. I said from the outset that SR has higher DPS but lower overall damage. Melf's is a great spell,
you should try it.

You keep saying you've done it recently with acid / elec, and it was "faster". Then I ask, faster than what? Your previous 2 year old time? All I know is that I easily push level 10 in one day together with Yar, two manning it all ofcourse.

Before you get wall of fire, the most effective combination, IME, is acid/electric - for the
reasons I have stated several times. This is mostly because acid blast is a superior spell to fireball. Again,
IME Melf's is a superior boss killer than SR. This is from the perspective of a soloist. SR is absolutely junk before
L7 (Niac's is better unless mob has a really high reflex or is immune). As Yargore said earlier, it's a question
of playstyle and tactics, if you don't use web then fireball probably isn't a lot different to acid blast.

Fire / cold, is a superior combo, as the only spells you'll really need except CC before level 6, is scorching ray.

1>4 = hypno + run past + charm here and there + niacs the dungeon bosses (if needed)
4>6 = hypno + run past + scorching ray the boss
6>8 = fireball everything
8>vale = Firewall everything + fireballs

Well, sorry I don't agree. I prefer to be invis. and just run past everything, hit the boss with Melf's and hide/kite
for the 30 seconds or so it takes :P

[Arctigis]

I'm quite an old school sorc who mainly use Niac and fireball, and it works well. I somehow think Niac is an overpowered spell. Shocking Grasp is my third backup damage spell and I think it is way inferior to Niac in terms of damage.

However, to use Niac it requires some investment. double conjuration focus, conjuration item, eagle's splendor pots etc. in addition to ice lore + potency/freeze gear. And it doesn't work on every mob, e.g. it's very ineffective to shoot niac on spriders. web + niac is a perfect combo.

I got the idea to try out acid/electric and the new acid spells for a long time but never tried it. Changing spells take too long, and I don't have the superior acid/electric clickies. (not have a bracer so I use a conjuration and a fire/ice lore, together with superior inferno/freeze clickies)

So, Niac's fully specc'ed (two feats, + focus item) is better than SG. I'd certainly hope it would be with that
investment. Try comparing like for like in terms of enhancements and metamagics (including the times Niac's
did 0 damage because it was saved).

Look, all I'm advocating is that before WoF, there is better synergy in spell choice and effect for acid/electric
than Fire/Cold with the introduction of the new low level spells. I'm not saying that acid/electric >>> fire/cold
just that, IME, it was more effective.

[Arctigis]

There are so few enhancemnets you need at low levels. Imp emp, imp max, damage lines, crit lines, 1-2 in sp lines, and that's basically it.

Taking II on both imps instead of I, saves you 5 sp per spell. And a fireball should be:
20 base + 25 maxi + 15 emp = 60-5 imp = 55 and with II instaed of I = 50 per cast.

Which means you save about 10% with II instead of I. and with about 600 sp at that level, you can cast 12 instead of 10 fireballs; which is 20% more damage output.

And yes, maxi + emp is 100% on at those levels, as there are so many shrines, and so few battles that needs to be taken care of.

I agree with this. You just need to do the calculations to work out when AP in metamagic enhancements is
> SP from EotDB. You can and should re-spec your enhancements often to mazimise your efficiency. As a Sorc
you should primarily be concerned with damage output.

[LookingForABentoBox]

edit: nm, I was looking at my final build notes that include TR bonuses.

current UMD with gloves, +1 tome, gh, and +9 weapon = 28. 100% raise dead is 31 so I'm at 85% currently with no pot usage, but if I really cared about the scrolls I could easily chug a pot to get 31 or higher. I do have a gs raise for cleric death though.

I don't know if I'm reading you correctly but not everyone has enough resources to make a tier 3 charisma weapon for their wizard. What potions are you talking about? What gloves?

[Absolute-Omniscience]

So, you cast fireball. Period. No other spells. No one to buff. You don't blur yourself, or nightshield, or toss out a hypnotism here or there? No resists? You don't even haste?

Nightshield is useless if you twink.
Blur is overrated, at those levels you have ~30 ac anyways, the mobs wont hit you unless it's a 20. You can live with that.

Once you get fireball, hypnotism and all that is CC is obsolete. Resists are from house P buffs, which you will run around with permanent till you reach GH and can't be arsed with it anymore. Haste are from potions.

And even without considering all those obvious points, you can still cast ~20% more spells with those enhancements, so your point is null and void.