Valhelm, Defender of Siberys

[lord_of_rage]

To be honest im not sure, but crafting dual lit2s is a great benefit, much moreso than making min2s (which I advise against for any paladin twf, since holy swords are seriously like .3 damage per swing worse). Lightnings, on the other hand, are ~15-20 damage per swing better than holy swords or min2s on trash mobs.

Ive got a pair of lit2 kops and I love them. I was curious about the lit strike guard because soloing amarath stuff and having to turtle up to regain health if needed and watch a strike proc off grazing hits while my torc or conc opp proc could be awesome.

[Valezra]

To be honest im not sure, but crafting dual lit2s is a great benefit, much moreso than making min2s (which I advise against for any paladin twf, since holy swords are seriously like .3 damage per swing worse). Lightnings, on the other hand, are ~15-20 damage per swing better than holy swords or min2s on trash mobs.

Min II DAxe Calc:
2d8 + 5 Base = 14 Avg
2d6 Holy = 7 Avg
1d4 Slicing = 2.5 Avg
1d6 Acid Teir II = 3.5 Avg

Base Dmg = 27 Avg

2d10 Acid Burst Crit (X3 Multiplier) = 11
2d10 Acid Blast Crit (X3 Multiplier) = 11
(2d8 + 5) X 2 (X3 Multipler) = 28

Crit Damage = 27 + 22 + 28 = 77

4d6 Perfect 20 = 14

Perfect 20 Damage = 77 + 14 = 91

Damage Profile = 91(1/20) + 77(1/20) + 27(17/20) = 31.35

Holy Sword Spell: Daxe Calc:
1d10 + 5 = 10.5 avg
2d6 Holy = 7 Avg

Base Damage Avg = 17.5

4d6 Holy Burst Crit (X3 Multiplier) = 14
(1d10 + 5) X 2 (X3 Multipler) = 21

Crit Damage = 17.5 + 14 + 21 = 52.5

Damage Profile = 52.5(2/20) + 17.5(17/20) = 20.125

A Mineral II Dwarven Axe does 56% MORE damage than the Paladin Dwarven Axe Holy Sword AND does not require an entire feat (Improved Critical) since the Minerall II's are Keen.


Min II Khopesh Calc:
1d10 + 5 Base = 11.5 Avg
2d6 Holy = 7 Avg
1d4 Slicing = 2.5 Avg
1d6 Acid Teir II = 3.5 Avg

Base Dmg = 24.5 Avg

2d10 Acid Burst Crit (X3 Multiplier) = 11
2d10 Acid Blast Crit (X3 Multiplier) = 11
(1d10 + 5) X 2 (X3 Multipler) = 23

Crit Damage = 24.5 + 22 + 23 = 69.5

4d6 Perfect 20 = 14

Perfect 20 Damage = 69.5 + 14 = 83.5

Damage Profile = 83.5(1/20) + 69.5(3/20) + 24.5(15/20) = 32.975

Holy Sword Spell: Khopesh Calc:
1d8 + 5 = 9.5 avg
2d6 Holy = 7 Avg

Base Damage Avg = 16.5

4d6 Holy Burst Crit (X3 Multiplier) = 14
(1d8 + 5) X 2 (X3 Multipler) = 19

Crit Damage = 16.5 + 14 + 19 = 49.5

Damage Profile = 49.5(4/20) + 16.5(15/20) = 22.275

A Mineral II Khopesh does 48% MORE damage than the Paladin Khopesh Holy Sword AND does not require an entire feat (Improved Critical) since the Minerall II's are Keen.

I often agree with Jaerlach but I would have to disagree that the Holy Sword spell even comes close to matching the DPS of Mineral II weapons. In fact, I go as far as to recommend against using Holy Swords as your DR bypassers and spend the time to craft some Min II's. When beating on Harry, Suulo, devils, or Orthons the two weapons may come close but Mineral II saves you a Feat (a precious commodity for Paladins) and completely destroys the Holy Weapons on the entire rest of the games content.

Val

[Renothebest]

hi guys, I'm new to melee char since I always focused on sorcerers. I'd like to create a good intimitank and I found this build that looks awesome but have some questions about it:
1) is TWF better than THF? - Since many ppl in my guild say that THF is the paladin's way to DPS
2) will this build be useful in end-game as a tanker? - Since i see the OP didn't take feats shield-focused
3) can i use this build on a 32points char? I'd drop STR to 15 and keep all others stats as they are OR... I'm going to create a fast-exp char to reach lvl 20 and reincarnate. In this case i'd like any advise on which class would be more suitable for Past Life feat. (sorc - barb - fighter)

ty for replies

[Junts]

hi guys, I'm new to melee char since I always focused on sorcerers. I'd like to create a good intimitank and I found this build that looks awesome but have some questions about it:
1) is TWF better than THF? - Since many ppl in my guild say that THF is the paladin's way to DPS
2) will this build be useful in end-game as a tanker? - Since i see the OP didn't take feats shield-focused
3) can i use this build on a 32points char? I'd drop STR to 15 and keep all others stats as they are OR... I'm going to create a fast-exp char to reach lvl 20 and reincarnate. In this case i'd like any advise on which class would be more suitable for Past Life feat. (sorc - barb - fighter)

ty for replies

1: yes
2: yes, if geared properly: ac is mostly about high-quality equipment. Until then, though, it does good damage
3: yes. Best past life -chosen- feat is fighter; best passives are monk and paladin. Affording a chosen past life is hard, since feats are tight.

[Renothebest]

so I can use this build also with 32points without loosing anything outher than 1STR?

[Valezra]

so I can use this build also with 32points without loosing anything outher than 1STR?

Correct

[Renothebest]

ok, i'm building a toon 32points for reincarnation. It's a 18/2 pala/fighter for the passive past life feat. ATM it's lvl 12 but i'd like to get some more infos about the equipment section: what kind of weapon should I use as TWF? I can see just one definition for S&B (+4 insight AC)... Any idea?

PS: while working with the crafting simulator i found out that on a shroud weapon I can put +1, +2, +4 Insight AC from different tiers. Do they stack? If nope, and I'd just need the 3rd tier, what Tier 1&2 do you suggest? (this is for the S&B weapon, what about the TWF weaps?)

PPS: and also... by crafting a Shroud D.axe mineral i get the "Keen" bonus which (for what i've read before) would let me choose a different feat than Improved Crits. What about SF: Intim? or Shield Masery?
TY!!

[Valezra]

ok, i'm building a toon 32points for reincarnation. It's a 18/2 pala/fighter for the passive past life feat. ATM it's lvl 12 but i'd like to get some more infos about the equipment section: what kind of weapon should I use as TWF? I can see just one definition for S&B (+4 insight AC)... Any idea?

PS: while working with the crafting simulator i found out that on a shroud weapon I can put +1, +2, +4 Insight AC from different tiers. Do they stack? If nope, and I'd just need the 3rd tier, what Tier 1&2 do you suggest? (this is for the S&B weapon, what about the TWF weaps?)

PPS: and also... by crafting a Shroud D.axe mineral i get the "Keen" bonus which (for what i've read before) would let me choose a different feat than Improved Crits. What about SF: Intim? or Shield Masery?
TY!!

I had no room for Improved Critical Feats. So I made a Mineral II Daxe with Holy as Teir I, Acid Burst as Teir II, and then Dual Shard AC +4. Since it is dual shard you also end up with Keen, Slicing, Metalline, increased durability. IMO, there is no more versatile a weapon than a Mineral II.

The insight bonuses do not stack.

My mainhand weapon is a Holy, Acid, Acid Mineral II Daxe, and my offhand is a Holy, Acid, AC +4 Minerall II Daxe. When S&B I swap the AC+4 axe to my mainhand. The reason for having them switched when TWF is because of the Blast effect on the third tier Acid (requires crit confirmation which is easier to do with your mainhand) -AND- so if I need to use scrolls or wands I don't lose my +4 AC while using them.

Val

[Zeritel]

I'd been looking for a nice dwarf tanking build and I really like this one alot. You mentioned putting some points in intim, and not using UMD because of how heavy an investment it would be. I'm doin a 32 point version of this build (lowered the str) and wondered where a good place to put the skill points would be. My guess is in balance, jump, and maby a splash in tumble.

[Renothebest]

I had no room for Improved Critical Feats. So I made a Mineral II Daxe with Holy as Teir I, Acid Burst as Teir II, and then Dual Shard AC +4. Since it is dual shard you also end up with Keen, Slicing, Metalline, increased durability. IMO, there is no more versatile a weapon than a Mineral II.

The insight bonuses do not stack.

My mainhand weapon is a Holy, Acid, Acid Mineral II Daxe, and my offhand is a Holy, Acid, AC +4 Minerall II Daxe. When S&B I swap the AC+4 axe to my mainhand. The reason for having them switched when TWF is because of the Blast effect on the third tier Acid (requires crit confirmation which is easier to do with your mainhand) -AND- so if I need to use scrolls or wands I don't lose my +4 AC while using them.

Val

Lovely...
What level are you now on this toon? How is it working?

[lord_of_rage]

Well I'm going to go a slightly different route. Ive got a 15 human pally currently on the KOTC path. But with +1-3 greater res coming out Im just going to greater res him. Ill take the build 1 fighter then drop the 14 pally lvls. That way I still have access to holy sword. I figure by the time I get him to 20 and start my res Ill have more ingreds to cover the min2s. So instead Ill craft my lit2s off the bat. Ill just have to pray for rain for leviks defender to drop.

[lord_of_rage]

So I had a few days of net and rolled a 32pt dwarf basicly note for note as I do have a ton of gear all the way through the lvl range. He is a blast.Truly a killer build. I soloed him to lvl9. The twf option is great for most situations. He is versitile and has killer survivability. Im really impressed. He is neck and neck with my 13rogue6ranger1monk builds as my favorite toons. Thanks much Val.

[DartanTR]

So I had a few days of net and rolled a 32pt dwarf basicly note for note as I do have a ton of gear all the way through the lvl range. He is a blast.Truly a killer build. I soloed him to lvl9. The twf option is great for most situations. He is versitile and has killer survivability. Im really impressed. He is neck and neck with my 13rogue6ranger1monk builds as my favorite toons. Thanks much Val.

I'm going to TR my 20 paladin. Do you think your human version will work out better or our 32 pt dwarf?

[Matuse]

I often agree with Jaerlach but I would have to disagree that the Holy Sword spell even comes close to matching the DPS of Mineral II weapons. In fact, I go as far as to recommend against using Holy Swords as your DR bypassers and spend the time to craft some Min II's.

Except he's talking about clearing trash mobs as well, where the DR is a lot easier to beat...and acid doesn't really work on devils. Removing that from your calculation, and the Minerals become a hell of a lot less viable.

Additionally, you may want to recheck your math.

Min II Khopesh Calc:
1d10 + 5 Base = 11.5 Avg

This is 10.5, not 11.

Saving a feat is...chancy, at best. Even with a Mineral, you'd probably still end up using the feat for other weapons like Smiters/Banishers, LightningII (which is a vastly better weapon for trash cleaning than Mineral II, since it beats DR just as well, and shock damage isn't resisted), or the ever-elusive Holy Burst Silver GEOB.

[Valezra]

Except he's talking about clearing trash mobs as well, where the DR is a lot easier to beat...and acid doesn't really work on devils. Removing that from your calculation, and the Minerals become a hell of a lot less viable.

Additionally, you may want to recheck your math.


This is 10.5, not 11.

Saving a feat is...chancy, at best. Even with a Mineral, you'd probably still end up using the feat for other weapons like Smiters/Banishers, LightningII (which is a vastly better weapon for trash cleaning than Mineral II, since it beats DR just as well, and shock damage isn't resisted), or the ever-elusive Holy Burst Silver GEOB.

10.5, correct.

LitII for trash clearing is a terrible idea. I can't keep count of how many times I've seen LitII proc on a mob with ~15% health thus wasting almost all of the damage from the proc. A proccy, inconsistent weapon is the worst for trash and the best for long boss fights.

Here is the calc of a Min II Daxe vs Holy Daxe without Acid damage and assuming the person using Holy Weapons also got Improved Crit: slashing

Min II DAxe Calc:
2d8 + 5 Base = 14 Avg
2d6 Holy = 7 Avg
1d4 Slicing = 2.5 Avg
1d6 Acid Teir II = 0

Base Dmg = 23.5 Avg

2d10 Acid Burst Crit (X3 Multiplier) = 0
2d10 Acid Blast Crit (X3 Multiplier) = 0
(2d8 + 5) X 2 (X3 Multipler) = 28

Crit Damage = 23.5 + 28 = 51.5

4d6 Perfect 20 = 0

Perfect 20 Damage = n/a

Damage Profile = 51.5(2/20) + 23.5(17/20) = 25.125

Holy Sword Spell: Daxe Calc:
1d10 + 5 = 10.5 avg
2d6 Holy = 7 Avg

Base Damage Avg = 17.5

4d6 Holy Burst Crit (X3 Multiplier) = 14
(1d10 + 5) X 2 (X3 Multipler) = 21

Crit Damage = 17.5 + 14 + 21 = 52.5

Damage Profile = 52.5(2/20) + 17.5(17/20) = 20.125

Obviously the Min II still does about 20% more damage than the Holy Sword spell. For Khopeshes this becomes very close. For the other 90% of the content in the game where Acid works the Min II Khopesh does more damage than Holy Sword Khopesh.

Also note, Strength is the great equalizer, as strength, bonus damage, seeker, etc. gets added in that 20% gets smaller and smaller but the Min II Daxe will always do more damage.

Bring Fortification into the equation and the Min II outpaces the Holy Sword even more. I reiterate my opinion that Paladins should carry Min II's and save themselves the Improved Crit: Feat. To further the point, if you want to use Stunning Blow you will be using a blunt weapon in one hand anyway and Improved Crit feats are a complete waste on stunned foes.

Val

[lord_of_rage]

I'm going to TR my 20 paladin. Do you think your human version will work out better or our 32 pt dwarf?

Ill finally work the human version up but I wont say he will be better. He will do alittle more dps in twf mode as I could fit in dm3 and kopesh. He will lose 2 ac from dwarf armor mastery, the +2 to balance, some hp+ the dwarf spell resistance and dwarf tactics 1 if you choose to use a tactics feat. Im thinking I might honestly slide quicken in to really get a better self healing mode out of him. Ill play with the #s and post the build up for jar and val to rip apart. Im not great on ac calcs so Im sure ill need a bit of help on that. Though as said I did roll a 32pt dwarf and even moderately twinked the dude is a buzz saw. Soloed everything I ran to lvl9 with ease. I did run out of fire resists on stormcleave at the end but no issue there. Its a blast. The human will at that lvl be down ac but will self heal easier. Its really a style trade off. But Ill stop procrastinating and get it up.

Rage

[Scythera]

I have been trying to create a High AC Pally Tank build this entire time, but, as is normally the case for me, I have failed simply because I have never been through end game (Highest character is lvl 13). My main and only question is, are these stats, the ones you first posted, good for end game?

As well, Juntz, I have heard much about your Reputation as someone who knows Pally builds rather well. Expect a tell from me in the future.

[Valezra]

I have been trying to create a High AC Pally Tank build this entire time, but, as is normally the case for me, I have failed simply because I have never been through end game (Highest character is lvl 13). My main and only question is, are these stats, the ones you first posted, good for end game?

As well, Juntz, I have heard much about your Reputation as someone who knows Pally builds rather well. Expect a tell from me in the future.

I don't pretend to know as much as Junts but I do know this build having played it extensively. Everything listed in this build is realistic and viable for end-game. Some of the items which require more grinding such as, Chattering Ring, Epic Vambraces, and Litany of the Dead improve the build but are not required to make the character playable. Without all of those you should still be able to tank everything in the game with this character and have fun doing good DPS the other 90% of the time.

Val

[NoidRoid]

Neat build, I got a pure fighter than could easily TR into something like this. What are your thoughts on 2 levels of rogue for evasion, dex, skills?


My only question is: how exactly do paladins use LotD? I've seen it listed on a lot of pali builds so I guess it works.. have never tried equipping it on a good toon

[Edgarius]

What is this +1 Profane to your stats exactly?