A little strange, but does it work?

[lokis1313]

what i did was i took both levels of Rogue right off the bat, then I took the next 2 levels of ranger, to finsh the chara with the 16 paladine, I also tend to solo 90% of the time. But what am hoping that this build would help with survival, and still be useful in both groups, and in end game.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Male
(16 Paladin \ 2 Rogue \ 2 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 250
Spell Points: 247 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 18
Will: 11

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             10                 10                   10
Dexterity            14                 14                   17
Constitution         10                 10                   10
Intelligence         16                 21                   21
Wisdom               14                 14                   14
Charisma             16                 16                   17

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               6                  8                    8
Bluff                 7                  8                    8
Concentration         0                  0                    0
Diplomacy             7                  8                    8
Disable Device        7                 28                   30
Haggle                7                 10                   10
Heal                  2                  2                    2
Hide                  6                  8                    8
Intimidate            3                  3                    3
Jump                  0                  0                    0
Listen                2                  2                    4
Move Silently         6                 10                   11
Open Lock             6                 26                   29
Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                3                  5                    5
Search                7                 25                   27
Spot                  6                 13                   15
Swim                  0                  0                    0
Tumble                n/a               n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      7                  8                    8

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Bluff (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Nimble Fingers


Level 2 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 3 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Monstrous Humanoid
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1.5)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Paladin Attack Boost I


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Enhancement: Paladin Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Light I


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+1.5)
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Power Critical
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty


Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Light II


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1.5)
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I


Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1.5)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning III


Level 18 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1.5)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead III


Level 19 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1.5)
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1.5)
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Light III

[Therigar]

Search the forums. I'm the guy who generally supports any build. But, I'm not too confident in this one.

High CHA paladins are a mistake IMO. Lots of build points wasted for limited benefit. You are too weak (STR) and have too much DEX for my likes. Weapon finesse is fun but doesn't produce much damage and the game is all about damage at levels 16+.

Paladins are one of the classes that can skip tier 3 PrEs but doing so should serve some purpose. A 6/12/2 split makes better sense if you are going to do that. Taking rogue and ranger in the first 4 levels is probably a mistake. If you plan to keep rogue skills marginally useful then you want to stagger these levels thru the build so that you can top off skills with the higher skill point numbers.

Your feat selection is perhaps the worst I've seen in a long time. The character is stuck with ineffective TWF so might as well be fighting sword and board all the time. I don't see ITWF or GTWF in your choices. These are almost compulsory for a warrior class build. Your STR is too low to consider THF as an alternative.

The decision to boost INT when you level up is not defensible. It does nothing to make the build better. You should be boosting STR (presuming you put enough into STR at character creation) so that you do more damage.

The class choices are not bad but just about everything else about the build is.

[lokis1313]

Search the forums. I'm the guy who generally supports any build. But, I'm not too confident in this one.

I don't see ITWF or GTWF in your choices. These are almost compulsory for a warrior class build.

During the making of this build I did try to take the ITWF, and GTWF but for some reason the Chara generator would not let me take these feats, or else I would have.

[Therigar]

Your base DEX without considering enhancements or items must be 17 for ITWF and GTWF. You do not meet the prereqs.

A better build would be ranger 6/paladin 12/rogue 2. Better starting stats would be STR 15 DEX 15 CON 13 INT 13 WIS 9 CHA 13. These are low for min/max oriented players but balance may be better for you because of the class choices. Ranger 6 gets you TWF and ITWF as class feats so bypasses DEX requirements. A +1 tome of supreme ability from the Turbine Store makes all stats even numbers. Level increases to stats goes into STR so you don't waste a feat on weapon finesse. You eventually use a +2 tome in both STR and DEX. That brings final STR to 22 and final DEX to 21 with enhancements (but more importantly 17 without enhancements and thus qualifying you for GTWF). Use a +3 tome in DEX if you get one to end on 22 (28 with items).

You will be much more useful in a group with the higher STR (will reach 30 with +6 item and Ram's Might spell) plus you won't be limited in your choice of weapons (letting you swap weapon finesse for exotic weapon: khopesh and still use rapiers for stat damagers). You will be able to fill melee and ranged combat roles more effectively. The 12 paladin levels will let you pursue Hunter of the Dead II assuming that is what you want. The 6 ranger levels will let you take favored enemy: undead and favored enemy: evil outsiders -- the two most common end game enemies.

Rework your enhancement choices incorporating favored enemy attack and defense as well as grabbing Tempest I. Also get both levels of the Sovereign Host enhancement.

Rework your feat selections to get Dodge, Mobility and Spring Attack as well as picking up GTWF when you have 17 base DEX.

A salvagable build class wise but you really need to make significant changes for it to work in game to do any of what you want it to do.

[Thrudh]

High CHA paladins are a mistake IMO. Lots of build points wasted for limited benefit.

Divine Might is worth more than a few str points. High CHA is not a mistake for a paladin.

[TiberiusofTyr]

I would move the skill points from concentration to UMD.

Go for these feats dodge mobility spring attack improved crit toughness power attack and GTWF if you can score a +2 dex tome. Take the tempest Ranger enhancement

[Therigar]

Divine Might is worth more than a few str points. High CHA is not a mistake for a paladin.

I think using build points to reach 16 CHA while leaving STR at 10 is a mistake. For 2 fewer CHA the build could have 4 more STR (referance original post, not halfling repost). And, yes, DM provides up to +8 damage (equal to +16 STR). However it is not going to be always available in every fight.

However, I clearly stated that it is my opinion that high CHA is a mistake. OP's entire first effort really isn't very good and the second isn't much better. We could quibble about how much CHA is enough (or how many angels dance on the head of a pin) but that does nothing practical to assist OP in finding a viable build.

[Thrudh]

However it is not going to be always available in every fight.

Just FYI, it is fairly easy to keep Divine Might running during all fights...

[Thrudh]

To the OP... what are you gaining from the ranger levels?

I think an 18/2 paladin/rogue would be a better fit... go with drow... go strength based (put all level ups into strength - don't bother with weapon finesse).

STR 15
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 8
WIS 10
CHA 16

Feats:
Toughness
TWF
ITWF
Improved Critical: Pierce
GTWF
Power Attack
Extend

Note that you need a 17 Dex to get ITWF and GTWF... Either wait until you find or can buy a +1 DEX tome or maybe use one of your level up points in Dex.

[kitselli]

To the OP... what are you gaining from the ranger levels?

I think an 18/2 paladin/rogue would be a better fit... go with drow... go strength based (put all level ups into strength - don't bother with weapon finesse).

STR 15
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 8
WIS 10
CHA 16

Feats:
Toughness
TWF
ITWF
Improved Critical: Pierce
GTWF
Power Attack
Extend

Note that you need a 17 Dex to get ITWF and GTWF... Either wait until you find or can buy a +1 DEX tome or maybe use one of your level up points in Dex.

T,
In what order do you get to 18/2??
2 lvls Rog, then all Pally?
Pally -> rog -> pally -> rog -> then 16 pally?
Kit

[TiberiusofTyr]

T,
In what order do you get to 18/2??
2 lvls Rog, then all Pally?
Pally -> rog -> pally -> rog -> then 16 pally?
Kit

1st level rogue to get max skill points

Depends on when you want Evasion after that versus delaying Paladin abilities.

[elraido]

To the OP... what are you gaining from the ranger levels?

I think an 18/2 paladin/rogue would be a better fit... go with drow... go strength based (put all level ups into strength - don't bother with weapon finesse).

STR 15
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 8
WIS 10
CHA 16

Feats:
Toughness
TWF
ITWF
Improved Critical: Pierce
GTWF
Power Attack
Extend

Note that you need a 17 Dex to get ITWF and GTWF... Either wait until you find or can buy a +1 DEX tome or maybe use one of your level up points in Dex.

This is a very viable option. Might be the way to go.

[lokis1313]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(12 Paladin \ 2 Rogue \ 6 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 302
Spell Points: 196 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 18
Will: 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Stats          Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             13                    14
Dexterity            15                    16
Constitution         13                    14
Intelligence         12                    12
Wisdom                9                    12
Charisma             13                    13

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    21
Bluff                 5                     7
Concentration         1                    27
Diplomacy             5                     6
Disable Device        5                     8
Haggle                5                     5
Heal                 -1                     1
Hide                  6                    20
Intimidate            1                     1
Jump                  5                    18
Listen               -1                     3
Move Silently         6                    21
Open Lock             6                    10
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     1
Search                1                     6
Spot                 -1                     8
Swim                  1                     2
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Nimble Fingers
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I


Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Will) I
Enhancement: Halfling Silent Moves I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I


Level 4 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Fortitude) I
Enhancement: Halfling Silent Moves II


Level 5 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Halfling Hiding I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Will) II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I


Level 7 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 8 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Will) III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II


Level 10 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II


Level 11 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Defense
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 13 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I


Level 14 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Discipline
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion III


Level 16 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II


Level 17 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Iron Will
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV


Level 19 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II

[Therigar]

I would lean more towards one of these builds:

A halfling build by Creeper.
A drow build by Gaidin43.
A drow build by ChaupSuey.