Barbarian vs Giants Video

[Cetus]

Wow Shade, that is awesome!

I've been very stubborn about perfecting and maxing out my THF kensai fighter: got him to high sixties str and short of 1k hp raid buffed- crits I've seen in the low 3 teens(including potions), i just reincarnated him as a wf barb with hopes of returning back to fighter with the barb past life tweaks..(hp, 30sec rages etc..)

This video is beginning to become very convincing about the disparity between offensive combat between barbs and fighters.

I'd like to ask on your perspective on fighter DPS comparatively to your outstanding barbarian build, I understand there may be some bias in your response granted that it might be kinda hard to objectively analyze a successful build like that =D

Side note: The fighter was previously a human, thinking of bringing him to WF: thoughts? (assuming I don't stay barb- which is becoming difficult to resist)

[Emili]

Wow Shade, that is awesome!

I've been very stubborn about perfecting and maxing out my THF kensai fighter: got him to high sixties str and short of 1k hp raid buffed- crits I've seen in the low 3 teens(including potions), i just reincarnated him as a wf barb with hopes of returning back to fighter with the barb past life tweaks..(hp, 30sec rages etc..)

This video is beginning to become very convincing about the disparity between offensive combat between barbs and fighters.

I'd like to ask on your perspective on fighter DPS comparatively to your outstanding barbarian build, I understand there may be some bias in your response granted that it might be kinda hard to objectively analyze a successful build like that =D

Side note: The fighter was previously a human, thinking of bringing him to WF: thoughts? (assuming I don't stay barb- which is becoming difficult to resist)

I know not asked but they are way two different melee types in feel... do not know about you but Berzerker is plain and simply a Brute - nothing is going to hit harder and more consistently all the time. Fighter is more a bag of tricks but masters none, Kensai Dps is good but not near a Berzerker... Kensai to-hit good but still overshadowed. My feeling has been somewhere in between the two as imo Turbine has yet to provide fighter class back with the use ratio it once had pre-mod 4 - when they initially opened enhancement and nerfed them attempting to bring other classes to their level. Berzerker and DPS are synonymous - quite that simple. Kensai - The weapon's master still needs much work ... it's tier III far weaker compared to others and the capstone for fighter may be had in other methods.

[maddmatt70]

I know not asked but they are way two different melee types in feel... do not know about you but Berzerker is plain and simply a Brute - nothing is going to hit harder and more consistently all the time. Fighter is more a bag of tricks but masters none, Kensai Dps is good but not near a Berzerker... Kensai to-hit good but still overshadowed. My feeling has been somewhere in between the two as imo Turbine has yet to provide fighter class back with the use ratio it once had pre-mod 4 - when they initially opened enhancement and nerfed them attempting to bring other classes to their level. Berzerker and DPS are synonymous - quite that simple. Kensai - The weapon's master still needs much work ... it's tier III far weaker compared to others and the capstone for fighter may be had in other methods.

That is your opinion and the way you play your fighter, but not reality. 12+ fighter haste boost IV rules.

[Emili]

That is your opinion and the way you play your fighter, but not reality. 12+ fighter haste boost IV rules.

Yes is but my opinion, be what I see and where I see it on average... We've run together before you've great dps output and you run mostly and strictly in exceptional circles. Now My Norg, What here be makin' you think my kensai III is not max'd str + Haste boost? Fact be she carrying more raging and str boosts items round with her than my Barb. Use a barb boosted up and then and use a fighter in full dps Kansai, fighter hasted and shear boosted up... chances are am shrining the fighter to get haste, kansai and every other resource back to get all my button mashing back.

[BelgarianSernium]

I prefer the Barb/fighter mix myself. I still get all the rage damage plus the madstone and a necklace as well as the first level of kensai. With the right feats and the right enhancements that can be a fairly deadly combination as well. I personally have never seen a tier 3 fire GS proc quite that often but that was a pretty impressive display. I wonder what it would be like in the hands of a THF weilding Scimitars or Kopeshes with a 14 or 15 crit range?? Hmmm Still a huge fan of the Trip pos...They just cool. hehe...As someone else stated earlier I was really disappointed when they did away with the crit rage. I still have the first one on my Barb/fighter mentioned above and the crit range is crazy.
See you inside.

[Emili]

I prefer the Barb/fighter mix myself. I still get all the rage damage plus the madstone and a necklace as well as the first level of kensai. With the right feats and the right enhancements that can be a fairly deadly combination as well. I personally have never seen a tier 3 fire GS proc quite that often but that was a pretty impressive display. I wonder what it would be like in the hands of a THF weilding Scimitars or Kopeshes with a 14 or 15 crit range?? Hmmm Still a huge fan of the Trip pos...They just cool. hehe...As someone else stated earlier I was really disappointed when they did away with the crit rage. I still have the first one on my Barb/fighter mentioned above and the crit range is crazy.
See you inside.

What I believe would be possibly a very nice twf build be Kensai II/ Tempest I / Barb 2 max'd str with some heavy con on it. Although am not sure how tight it may be on the enhancements I'd wish it. THF a bit more to right-size...

I have but one Tri pos, dual min II, dual Lightning II my standard ... zerker does toss out a lot more damages on average then crit rage though... even sporting falchion where crit gapes even wider.

[THAC0]

Wow... very slick!

[Thrudh]

I have a few.. Bar 4, slot 4.. Hotkey: H, also the cloak i have on, left on by mistake.
But you can't use them while raged or on the annoying 6 second clicky cooldown.

I know I was just messing with you...

[Thrudh]

Now let's see a Kensai III fighter with fighter capstone and Haste Boost IV go out there with a Tier III fire greataxe or falchion...

I'm betting they go down just as fast... Short fight like that, Haste Boost of 30% PLUS 10% weapon alacrity will generate as much DPS as the FB III, I'm guessing (and without the self-damage)

[Cetus]

I wouldn't state it so black and white, that 563 point crit (first number) hurts =]

I have maxed out my fighter's dps, then worked on con- according to stats alone- the potential for a fighter's hp with maxed dps are overall higher than a barbarians (feat advantage), although a barb has a load more "potential" for hp, - going for dps will force you to make a compromise.

I was just looking to see what shade's opinion was, since he seems to have mastered the barbarian- could use the insight into my future tweaks, since im dps savvy =]

Ever considered an 18 barb 2 fighter splash? You sacrifice the capstone, but you gain fighter haste boost, and some extra feats- haven't tried it yet (working on my tr).

[Hanam]

I wouldn't state it so black and white, that 563 point crit (first number) hurts =]

I have maxed out my fighter's dps, then worked on con- according to stats alone- the potential for a fighter's hp with maxed dps are overall higher than a barbarians (feat advantage), although a barb has a load more "potential" for hp, - going for dps will force you to make a compromise.

I was just looking to see what shade's opinion was, since he seems to have mastered the barbarian- could use the insight into my future tweaks, since im dps savvy =]

Ever considered an 18 barb 2 fighter splash? You sacrifice the capstone, but you gain fighter haste boost, and some extra feats- haven't tried it yet (working on my tr).

It's been discussed before.

18/2 fighter if you want to use TWF - Easiest build due to feats. No need to worry about being feat starved.

18/2 rogue if you want to use TWF - Most expensive build with the greatest survivability due to evasion at a cost of becoming a feat starved feral bastard.

and pure 20 barb for THF - cheapest build with great dps. Nuff' said


All builds have great dps, each getting something dps wise from the multiclass.

[Cetus]

Yea but strictly THF speaking, without splashing a barb- I'm just interested in some thoughts comparing a level 20 kensai max dps fighter to a level 20 max dps berserker, in terms of the other tributes the toons have rather then the numbers they roll, because the barb will unrguably deliver more. But survivability and hp wise, I think the fighter might have an advantage there.

[Shade]

Yea but strictly THF speaking, without splashing a barb- I'm just interested in some thoughts comparing a level 20 kensai max dps fighter to a level 20 max dps berserker, in terms of the other tributes the toons have rather then the numbers they roll, because the barb will unrguably deliver more. But survivability and hp wise, I think the fighter might have an advantage there.

Not really, a fighter dedicated to DPS falls far behind a Barbarian in terms of defense.
The only area a fighter will beat a barbarian is AC - which imo isn't an important stat at all for a THF DPS built toon.

Barbarians get:
Better saves - far superior fortitude and willsave while raged, and moderately higher reflex with uncanny dodge
Far superior DR - 9/- versus zero
Higher hitpoints - extremely higher if you really spec for it, but on equal ground sligthly higher.

Fighters advantages lie mainly in versatilify. More feats gives greater options. Also when fully spec'd for it, can be slightly superior with combat feats DCs such as trip and stunning blow. (tho given the high cost of kensai, this is a very rare spec as you must heavily sacrifice hitpoints)

[Cetus]

Well judgin by that video, you had 805 hp double madstoned correct?

Maxed dps fighter I had 771 hp unbuffed, so I think I surpass a max dps barb in that category, as it goes for the combat feats- why would I lose hirpoints if i invest into their dc's? The kensai line already boosts it, plus I can grab the first or second tier in both trip and stunning blows while still having all my initial hp investments.

The dr is definitely a huge advantage, unless I can incorporate a dr item somewhere, stil will not be 9 though.

So far as im working on this reincarnated WF barb, it seems like he's an enormous mana sponge compared to my previous life as a fighter, still can't make an honest comparison as hes not capped yet.

[Shade]

Well judgin by that video, you had 805 hp double madstoned correct?

Maxed dps fighter I had 771 hp unbuffed, so I think I surpass a max dps barb in that category,

heh you can't just compare 2 random characters and make a general conclusion on entire classes based on that. The character in that video is a 28pnt build that doesn't have the toughness feat - what yours has? i have no idea.. A barb with about the same dps, toughness and higher con can reach over a thousand. I personally don't have one that high yet, but my 32pnt guy does get about 900.

as it goes for the combat feats- why would I lose hirpoints if i invest into their dc's? The kensai line already boosts it, plus I can grab the first or second tier in both trip and stunning blows while still having all my initial hp investments.

Well there you go, you admit not having maxxed out combat feats - you have 1 rank out of a possible 4 - that's exactly why.. You'd need all 4 to compete with a Barbarian, and to do that you need to sacrifice somewhere, be it dps things like haste boost, or a rank of toughness or 2.

[Cetus]

hmm ok, I guess thats information I can work with- Thank you.

[Shade]

Added another video killing a different giant:
Stormreaver downed with Epic Xuum

[Anthios888]

What a great thread. We really needed some more people to zerg in and immediately kill the Stormreaver as soon as the raid begins.

[Gunga]

Good stuff. Is that a bit of jealousy I hear dripping from Rocka's post?

It was really hard to follow the numbers in your combat log, but did you ever crit higher than 450? I had higher hopes for the epic xuum than that...

[Shade]

Good stuff. Is that a bit of jealousy I hear dripping from Rocka's post?

It was really hard to follow the numbers in your combat log, but did you ever crit higher than 450? I had higher hopes for the epic xuum than that...

Yep there are lots of crits in the 500+ range. Just tough to spot.

On rolls of 15-18, crits are much less ofcourse as they are just X3, X6 crits happen on 19-20s.