Prospective PvP Sorc Build

[Surrealistik]

Constructive feedback welcome. Note that Sleet Storm is a placeholder for Frost Lance.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(2 Paladin \ 2 Rogue \ 16 Sorcerer) 
Hit Points: 328
Spell Points: 1533 
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 25
Reflex: 17
Will: 29

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength              8                     8
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         18                    24
Intelligence         14                    14
Wisdom                6                     6
Charisma             16                    28

Tomes Used
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                    11
Bluff                 3                    10
Concentration         6                    30
Diplomacy             7                    14
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                7                    14
Heal                 -2                    -2
Hide                  3                     4
Intimidate            7                    14
Jump                  3                     4
Listen               -2                    -2
Move Silently         3                     4
Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                     2
Search                2                     2
Spot                 -2                    -2
Swim                 -1                     0
Tumble                3                     4
Use Magic Device      7                    32

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Composite Plating
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Light Fortification
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
Feat: (Automatic) Warforged Resistances


Level 2 (Rogue)
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion


Level 3 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
Spell (1): Hypnotism
Spell (1): Nightshield


Level 4 (Paladin)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Good
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Smite Evil
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 5 (Paladin)
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Grace
Feat: (Automatic) Lay on Hands


Level 6 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Spell (1): Grease


Level 7 (Sorcerer)
Spell (1): Ray of Enfeeblement


Level 8 (Sorcerer)
Spell (2): Web


Level 9 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Spell (2): Resist Energy


Level 10 (Sorcerer)
Spell (3): Haste


Level 11 (Sorcerer)
Spell (3): Sleet Storm
Spell (2): Glitterdust


Level 12 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell OR Enlarge Spell
Spell (4): Wall of Fire


Level 13 (Sorcerer)
Spell (4): Fire Shield
Spell (2): Scorching Ray
Spell (3): Rage


Level 14 (Sorcerer)
Spell (5): Protection From Elements


Level 15 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality OR Enlarge Spell
Spell (4): Force Missles
Spell (5): Prismatic Ray
Spell (3): Displacement


Level 16 (Sorcerer)
Spell (6): Reconstruct


Level 17 (Sorcerer)
Spell (5): Break Enchantment
Spell (6): Flesh to Stone
Spell (4): Solid Fog


Level 18 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell  OR Enlarge Spell
Spell (7): Otto's Sphere of Dancing


Level 19 (Sorcerer)
Spell (7): Delayed Blast Fireball
Spell (6): Disintegrate
Spell (5): Feeblemind


Level 20 (Sorcerer)
Spell (8): Otto's Irresistable Dance
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Heightening I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Heightening II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Maximizing I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Maximizing II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Quickening I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Sorcerer Force Manipulation I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Force Manipulation II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Force Manipulation III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Force Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand Mastery I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand Mastery II
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Warforged Inscribed Armor I

Monk build:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(2 Paladin \ 2 Monk \ 16 Sorcerer) 
Hit Points: 332
Spell Points: 1493 
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 28
Reflex: 17
Will: 21

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength              8                     8
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         18                    24
Intelligence         14                    14
Wisdom                6                     6
Charisma             16                    28

Tomes Used
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               1                    12
Bluff                 3                    10
Concentration         8                    33
Diplomacy             5                    11
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                3                     9
Heal                 -2                    -2
Hide                 -1                    -1
Intimidate            3                     9
Jump                 -1                    -1
Listen               -2                    -2
Move Silently        -1                    -1
Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                     2
Search                2                     2
Spot                 -2                    -2
Swim                 -1                    -1
Tumble               n/a                    1
Use Magic Device      5                    29.5

Level 1 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Enlarge Spell


Level 4 (Paladin)


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Sorcerer)


Level 8 (Sorcerer)


Level 9 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell


Level 10 (Sorcerer)


Level 11 (Sorcerer)


Level 12 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration


Level 13 (Sorcerer)


Level 14 (Sorcerer)


Level 15 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration


Level 16 (Sorcerer)


Level 17 (Sorcerer)


Level 18 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 19 (Sorcerer)


Level 20 (Sorcerer)
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Heightening I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Maximizing I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Maximizing II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Sorcerer Force Manipulation I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Force Manipulation II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Force Manipulation III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Force Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Sorcerer Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Spell Penetration III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Wand Mastery I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Warforged Inscribed Armor I

[96th_Malice]

I am not sure if this is a build you did yourself or this is a Tukaw build BUT the way I see it .....

If you are happy with these numbers and like the end result

Thats all that should matter.

Trust me I get told to re-roll LOTS as ranged combat is supposedly "gimped !"

If you like your toon .. have at er

ALTHOUGH ...... I wouldn't reccomend making a toon that is geared strictly for PvP. As much as I love PvP, my toons are made for PvE and tweaked at higher lvls. ( Basically swapping out favored enemies and purchasing all the proper PvP weapons )

A ranger has that sort of flexibility where I honestly cant say whether a caster type would or not !

Remember ... your not gonna get to 20th lvl running PvP. SO your toon needs to be effective questing first ...... with PvP as an afterthought !



On a side note I couldn't understand why my 17th lvl 28 point build Damiya does better than my 20th lvl 32 point build Cassiee against these Tukaw builds !!

ALIGNMENT !!

Triple neg bow will beat a Lightening Strike bow in PvP hands down vs good aligned toons ( provided Cassies lightening strike effect does not go off )

There is no d/r for alignment and it never dawned on me that the Pally part of the build automatically meant Lawful Good !

Damiya = Brain dead !!

Oh well, regardless of what anyone tells you ....... Build and play what you want to play BUT a word of advice is listen to everything people have to say whether its good or bad.

There have been a couple things I got told about my toon that to "them" made me gimped that I was able to correct. Just cause you don't like what peeps are saying .. doesnt mean its not valid !!

Sometimes there is great advice in random /tells about your toon !

Talk to ya later

Basically I need to pull my head outta my A$%!

[Surrealistik]

I don't know what this Tukaw build is, but the whole idea of Divine Grace, Evasion, and high Charisma modifiers always made a whole lot of sense to me, and yes, the idea is to remain effective at PvE in the interim; the spell, feat and enhancement list is, for the most part, a top down vantage of what the build will ultimately be.

[96th_Malice]

I don't know what this Tukaw build is, but the whole idea of Divine Grace, Evasion, and high Charisma modifiers always made a whole lot of sense to me, and yes, the idea is to remain effective at PvE in the interim; the spell, feat and enhancement list is, for the most part, a top down vantage of what the build will ultimately be.

Heya !!

I am pretty sure I'll see Tukaw and Ultimega in PvP tonight before either of them sees this post. I'll send them this way.

[Surrealistik]

Thanks. I'm thinking of subbing either Force of Personality, Extend or Quicken Spell in favour of Enlarge for cheesy but effective synergy with Otto's Irresistible Dance. At this point I have to say that Extend seems the most likely candidate for removal.

[heyytoi]

18clr/2monk.. thats wat you should do

[Junts]

I'm not sure it matters what kind of pvp build you make, since you're not going to have anyone to fight with it.

And yes, a cleric will still own you due to being able to swap spells.

[Surrealistik]

Why is being able to swap spells such an important advantage when I have win buttons like Irresistable Dance, and self heal like Reconstruct?

Also, I'm looking for constructive criticism, not the usual caustic negativity about PvP in DDO; if I wanted some of that, I'd ask.

[Junts]

Why is being able to swap spells such an important advantage when I have win buttons like Irresistable Dance, and self heal like ?

Also, I'm looking for constructive criticism, not the usual caustic negativity about PvP in DDO. If I wanted some of that, I'd ask.

Becase they have i-win buttons, too, and with much longer ranges than otto's irresistable dance. I mean, sure, you can spend some spell slots on them, but they have the advantage of having at least one for every save type, and don't have to waste extremely valuable lv 6 spell slots (which a sorc has 3 of) on the ultimate I-win: greater dispel magic.

Searing Light and Harm are also significant advantages, and they have a significantly better base fortitude save to resist the inevitable dispel followed by instakill spell

They can also re-cast deathward after it gets dispelled, you don't have that advantage.

The same build with wiz16 would be more effective; better, 18 wiz/2 rogue with insightful reflexes.

[Surrealistik]

Becase they have i-win buttons, too, and with much longer ranges than otto's irresistable dance. I mean, sure, you can spend some spell slots on them, but they have the advantage of having at least one for every save type, and don't have to waste extremely valuable lv 6 spell slots (which a sorc has 3 of) on the ultimate I-win: greater dispel magic.

Searing Light and Harm are also significant advantages, and they have a significantly better base fortitude save to resist the inevitable dispel followed by instakill spell

They can also re-cast deathward after it gets dispelled, you don't have that advantage.

The same build with wiz16 would be more effective; better, 18 wiz/2 rogue with insightful reflexes.

It seems to me that a single cast of Quickened, Enlarged no-save, no-immunity Otto's that doesn't require requisite dispelling would prove more effective than Dispel + Kill spell, especially with my saves and HP being universally high. Also, does GDM remove or suppress death immunity from items?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

It seems to me that a single cast of Quickened, Enlarged no-save, no-immunity Otto's that doesn't require requisite dispelling would prove more effective than Dispel + Kill spell, especially with my saves and HP being universally high. Also, does GDM remove or suppress death immunity from items?

Otto's Irresistible Dance
Cooldown: 6 seconds
Spell Point Cost:
Target: Foe
Level:
6 (Bard)
8 (Sorcerer, Wizard)
Components: Verbal
School: Enchantment
Metamagic: Enlarge, Extend, Quicken
Spell Resistance: Yes
At your touch, enemies feel an irresistible urge to dance and begin doing so, complete with foot shuffling and tapping. The spell makes it impossible for the enemy to do anything other than caper and prance in place.

Spell Resistance
Cooldown: 4 seconds
Spell Point Cost:
Target: Friend, Self
Level:
5 (Cleric, Favored Soul)
Components: DivineFocus, Somatic, Verbal
School: Abjuration
Metamagic: Enlarge, Extend, Quicken
Spell Resistance: No
Wards an ally with a Spell Resistance of 12 plus 1 per caster level.

Mordenkainen's Disjunction
Cooldown: 6 seconds
Spell Point Cost:
Target: Foe
Level:
9 (Wizard, Sorcerer)
Components: Verbal
School: Abjuration
Metamagic: Enlarge, Quicken
Spell Resistance: No
A powerful force disrupts magical effects on the target, removing ongoing spells that have been cast on a target. You must make a caster level check of 1d20 + your caster level (no maximum) versus 11 + the spell's caster level to remove a spell effect, and your target must make a Will save for each equipped item or all magical properties on them are temporarily disabled.

Your are wrong about Ottos if you check the spell description, SR applies. At same caster level you will fail to bypass spell resistance you will fail more than half the time to get past their SR, not that a cleric would let you get close enough to cast even an enlarged Ottos on them.

MD will fail 19/20 times on a Cleric, they won't be failing any will saves.

[heyytoi]

harm is not gr8t in pvp since evryone have DW cliki

clr are realy good cuz theres no resist vs their spells (searing light, unholy blight, nimbus of light, holy smith, ect)

and they get more hp!

[Surrealistik]

How can I be wrong about a claim I didn't even make? Ottos has neither a save, nor is there anything that grants immunity to it. I did forget about SR though. That said, I can boost my SP to around 26 via items, enhancements and feats (dropping Extend and FoP), which isn't too bad at all vs the 30 SR Clerics can scrounge with 18 caster levels. I also sincerely doubt it's all but "impossible" to close distance for an Enlarged Otto's between Haste, Jump, Tumble, Evasion, excellent saves, and excellent (for a caster) HP, as well as the ability to completely undo all damage via Reconstruct.

[Stamp3de]

Since u only have 8 str, I doubt ur gunna be doing any meleeing, why 2 rogue lvls instead of monk?

[96th_Malice]

Since u only have 8 str, I doubt ur gunna be doing any meleeing, why 2 rogue lvls instead of monk?

Thanks Ulti !!

[Surrealistik]

I don't own Monk ; if I did, I'd certainly sub out the rogue levels. I'll draw up an alternate build that features them soon.

[Junts]

It seems to me that a single cast of Quickened, Enlarged no-save, no-immunity Otto's that doesn't require requisite dispelling would prove more effective than Dispel + Kill spell, especially with my saves and HP being universally high. Also, does GDM remove or suppress death immunity from items?

Even enlarged, ottos has a pretty small range. While gdm does not surpress deathblock, a lot of the things I mentioned are not things you can be naturally immune to, or immune at all (example: greater command)

With great saves, you're just as likely to get dispelled, then harm+searing lighted to death, since harm will do 200 damgae even ifyou save, cannot be evaded, and searing light will do 300 unblockable. GDM and harm are partiularly nasty together, since they could jsut do two and then inflict you once and kill you, if they had to.

Cleric's a better platform for an I-win pk bot.

[Surrealistik]

You do realize that if they're in range to Harm me, I'm more than in range to Enlarged Otto's them, right? Also, Ward clickies as mentioned are great vs Harm. Searing Light also has to hit a jumping, tumbling, speeding target, and I can survive one, and completely and rapidly recover the damage immediately afterwords with quickened Reconstruct. Otto's by contrast is auto-hit, and only needs to hit once without any sort of preamble or set up. In the meanwhile, SR is the only defense one really has against the spell, and as I've shown, the build can be tuned in such a way as to minimize SR's viability as a response.

[heyytoi]

whats the point in doing pvp when you need to dance your oponent to win? thats not even funny

[Surrealistik]

VICTORY!! I agree with you though, in that certain spells need to be tweaked and reformed in at least the PvP context, but hey, in a no-holds barred battle where cheese reigns, this seems to be one of the best ways to roll.

Oh, and the Monk variant has been posted.