"not reccommended for new players"

[Borror0]

"If you can't figure out how to play it, don't come crying on the forums!"

I think it's also there for the people who can't figure out that they can't figure out how to play said build.

[Xyfiel]

I think is also there for the people who can't figure out that they can't figure out how to play said build.

so from now on my builds will say
"not recommended for Borror0"

[Borror0]

so from now on my builds will say
"not recommended for Borror0"

That's a good start but I think you should expend on it. How about, "not recommended for Borror0 or any other sane person"?

[BracchusBridgeburner]

ok, thanks everyone for clearing up the last part I was unsure of, which was the importance of being able to farm high-end loot for starting another character using specialized builds. I think you've clearly helped me make my mind up with those last points, so I'm ditching my loot-needy builds for now.

[Wyrmnax]

Theres quite a few reasons. Most of them already give to you on the thread. To summarize:

- Multitasking. For a player that cant yet deal with a single task dedicated job, this is very hard to do.

- $. You will need +2 tomes at level 3 to make this build work. You required a +2 tome for a critical feat. You plan the character to only have full potential when you have +2 (3,4) tomes. You need certain piece of gear ( that cost a few millions ) for the char to work.

- Frustration. This one is a biggie. Char sucks on lower levels, but will shine at 15+. To new players, that is simply too far away.

[sirgog]

- Frustration. This one is a biggie. Char sucks on lower levels, but will shine at 15+. To new players, that is simply too far away.

A really good example of that: Melee-specced multiclassed Sorcs or Wizards. These builds are *terrible* from levels 1 to 10, but become quite solid party members upon reaching high level. Levelling them up is not fun unless you kn ow *exactly* how to powerlevel.

[Thanimal]

I use that for anything that self-describes itself as "An AC character" since having relevant end game AC is going to take a lot of grinding. I think it's preferable that new players play a character that is fun from 1 to 20 rather than slowly starting to lose efficiency north of level 12.

Want to emphasize this one a bit, because it's one of the key reasons that I might label a build as "not for inexperienced players."

In DDO, there are some thresholds. If you don't meet them, then you may not be able to do your job at all. In other words, getting 80% of the way there is about the same as getting 0% of the way there. If a build is designed to reach such a threshold (and AC tanking is the prime example), but falls short due to lack of twinked equipment, then the character can feel completely useless.

My personal #1 example is my Hate Monster. I freakin' LOVE this build. But I'd be pretty scared to recommend it to new players, because it achieves its AC in large part through equipment. As an 11, I'm wearing Chaosgarde, +5 Wisdom, +5 Dex, +1 WIS Tome, +1 DEX Tome, and +5 Protection cloak. Downgrade these to "readily available" equipment and that could cost you 5 points of AC *easily* -- could be 7 or more. The result would be not being able to hit AC thresholds, but the build gives up a lot to be able to get AC, and so if you DON'T get that AC, you should really be playing something that focuses strictly on DPS.

For a new player looking for AC, they need to be able to get to threshold more cheaply, and so something like Aranticus's Dwarven Gladiator is much more effective.

DPS, by the way, is the opposite scenario: More is always better and 80% as much is simply 80% as effective. (Well, OK, there's kind of a threshold here in terms of overcoming DR -- there's exceptions to everything in DDO!)

[Wyrmnax]

there's exceptions to everything in DDO!)

Except to having Exceptions. No Exceptions.

[arminius]

Also, many of these builds suck at low levels. A new player usually wants to enjoy the game now, and not wait some weeks to months until his build shines.

This is a very big factor and can't be emphasized enough.

A good example is the 18-clr/2-monk. This build absolutely rocks at certain levels, due to the ac/saves/evasion that would not normally be on a cleric + wisdom boosts that add to everything a cleric could want. But....

Those two monk levels that just saved you from the cometfall or flamestrike cost a lot. It means putting off Blade Barrier (no buying scrolls), Heal, Raise Dead, and Resurrection to two levels later than normal. But everyone you group with in mid-levels will be expecting them. That means you will be:

1. Best running with understanding Guild or friends groups during those levels.

2. Burning an ENORMOUS amount of resources trying to make up for your temporary shortcomings with scrolls, you hope.

Both of those factors are mitigated by having an earlier, more standard character, on whom you make friends and build your rep, and get large sacks of loot and cash.

_

[z0mbyjr]

I'd say roll a 20 first so you have a nice, big brother to give you everything you need... Good for loot-intensive builds...

I recommend using one of Aranticus's templates as a first build...
My first character on Orien was Aranticus's Whirling Dervish. All I have to say, is if you follow the build, it's impossible to mess up. Just find a full plate, find two scimitars, and start whipping monsters apart.

For example, I beat all of korthos with my 2nd non-vet toon, in about 45 minutes easily. Want to know why?
I took my lvl 10 toon, sent my cleric a +2 Adamantine Full Plate, and a flaming longsword, as well as a good shield. Very, very easy... I got to a point where my cleric wasn't even taking damage from hits at all.

You can't really do that with a first toon.

[BracchusBridgeburner]

I've decided to run a dwarf cleric 19 / 1 ranger. I know the splash isn't at all neccessary but I do SO love the melee system in this game that I wanted just enough of a touch of melee capability to satisfy the craving. And as it doesn't really help me that much aside from flavoring, 1 level of splash doesn't really hurt either. Thanks for helping me make up my mind all