Dwarf pally/fighter build

[Garseya]

Greetings all. My first few builds were squishy types and now I'm ready to step into a more agressive melee role. I overheard reccomendations for a dwarf paladin/fighter build but have been unable to locate it on these forums. The build went something like 1st paladin 2nd level fighter then finish out paladin.
Does anyone recognize this as a specific build that I have overlooked here?

I did see the human 18/2 combo which reccomended 1st & 8th levels fighter with all remaining levels between and above paladin. This confused me somewhat as I have not multiclassed before in DDO and am not entirely sure how the point cost breaks down. Seems like you would want to take your primary class first to alleviate point costs later down the line, but the system might not work like that, and I'm sure to much dismay alot of you have figured that out by now. These forums are much appreciated by many for the time saving knowledge shared.

[valorik]

with a fighter/pally build your main skill will be intimidate which is not a paladin skill, but a fighter skill hence why you'd take it first and later so you can keep it maxed. This same class split works the same with a dwarf, and you'll end up with a higher ac, but less versatility imo because you'll have less charisma, and will be burning ap on the armor mastery enhancements.

[Garseya]

That makes sense, I mistakenly thought all characters got the same base skills. Thanks for taking the time to reply. +1 for that! May the tomes drop at your toes!

[Dexxaan]

Check out Bruttus; Evasion if you want it, High AC-Intimi-Tank with above Average S&B DPS.

Another Nice build is Cashiry on Sarlona.... he has his build on the Paladin thread...and he's dwarven.....

18/2's are the predictable and Turbine Super Highway to uberdoom....not too creative, not bad builds really, but meh...you'll have 100's like the Exploiter Ranger Rogue Monk builds before Mod 9.

I wouldnt change a thing about him except dump WIS to base at startup...oh and start 1st Level as Rogue for a few more Skill Points.

Yes he's Gear Intensive, but any Intimi-Tank worth his salt will be: L

Lemme know if you have any questions, I'll be glad to help.

PD: Check out Dworkin's Paladin Guide also, because when yoiu said "I have been unable to find paladin Dwarf Info" It sounded more like "I don't wanna hit the search + Keywords Dwarf Paladin in the Paladin thread"

[sephiroth1084]

I'd recommend human over dwarf for this sort of character--the extra feat, skill points and Cha will help more than the bonuses you get from being a dwarf in this case.

I say this with a capped dwarven paladin 14/fighter 6, and a lvl 10 human paladin 8/fighter 2.

Before embarking upon this sort of character, you should ask yourself whether you simply want to hit things hard, or whether you also want to be able to do something else, such as tanking (being the focus for monster attacks to spare the rest of your party, and being able to handle that kind of danger), via intimidate and/or hate generation.

If you just want to clobber things and don't care much for the other stuff, then you may want to consider a different sort of character, perhaps a Two-Weapon Fighting Drow paladin, a Kensai Fighter, a Barbarian, or something else.

But if you do want to have the flexibility of being able to dish out some damage and "turtle-up" to absorb some hits and save your party resources and effort, and want some self-sufficiency, then do look at the links Dexxxan suggested, as well as the tank Junts has a thread on. Just keep in mind that this character is very dependent on gear from start to finish, and on some fairly hard to acquire gear down the road.

My preference for a tank has basically been:

Human Pal 18/Ftr 2 (32 pt. buy)
Str 15 (all level up points go here)
Dex 12 (requires +1 tome before level 18; could conceivably ignore Dodge, and drop to starting 10 or even 8 aiming to just fill out Dragon Touched FP)
Con 15
Int 12 (requires +1 tome early on, and would like a +2 tome by 7, but not necessary)
Wis 8
Cha 15

Level order:
1 Fighter
2-7 Paladin
8 Fighter
9-20 Paladin

Skills:
Intimidate (max at level 1, and put 2 points per paladin level to keep maxed)
UMD (1 point per level)
Jump (get to about 10 ranks over 20 levels)
Tumble (get 1-3 ranks over 20 levels)
Balance (points not placed in Jump or Tumble go here)

Feats:
(DPS option, my current set-up)
Toughness
Power Attack
Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
THF
Combat Expertise
ITHF
Improved Critical: Slashing
GTHF
Dodge
Extend
-------------------------------

(Self-healig option, drafting off Junts' idea; thinking about making room for Maximize in current set-up)
Power Attack
Toughness
Combat Expertise
Improved Crit: Slashig
Extend
Maximize
--------------
and 4 of the following:
Exotic Proficiency: Khopesh
THF
ITHF
GTHF
Dodge
Quicken

[Garseya]

Again, thanks for the responses- I'm sure it will help other new players as well. Since I'm a role-playing kinda guy. I liked the idea of having a character that was good aligned and played that way. Wanting to be at the front of the party to deal damage, turtle up when necessary or block a door while drawing agro to allow others to perform in relative safety. I really enjoyed my Paladin in the Baulders Gate series. I'm not interested in solo play that much, I play the game for the social aspect and beauty of destruction a well balanced and well played party deals.
I'll put your knowledge to good use and appreciate the advice- +rep & good fortune to you all!

[sephiroth1084]

Again, thanks for the responses- I'm sure it will help other new players as well. Since I'm a role-playing kinda guy. I liked the idea of having a character that was good aligned and played that way. Wanting to be at the front of the party to deal damage, turtle up when necessary or block a door while drawing agro to allow others to perform in relative safety. I really enjoyed my Paladin in the Baulders Gate series. I'm not interested in solo play that much, I play the game for the social aspect and beauty of destruction a well balanced and well played party deals.
I'll put your knowledge to good use and appreciate the advice- +rep & good fortune to you all!

Sounds good! That was essentially my reasoning when I made my original character...and his 32 pt. dwarf version...and the 2 human versions I've worked on thereafter.

By the way, the reasons I suggest Human over Dwarf:
-Humans gain an extra feat, which is very strong on a feat-starved paladin, even with a fighter splash; somewhat negated if you take Khopesh, as that more or less equals the Dwarven Axe proficiency you gain from dwarf, though it's slightly better
-Humans gain an extra skill point, which allows you to keep up Intimidate and UMD and still have points for other important skills
-1 rank in Healing Amplification will do more for you than 1 rank in Con +1
-Human Adaptability helps balancing your many important ability scores as you level
-You can't really afford to spend that many AP on non-paladin enhancements, so the benefits of Dwarven Con, Toughness (ranks 3 and 4), Weapon Damage, Attack, etc... may look nice on paper, but realistically, you likely won't be picking many of them up
-Human Versatility (1 rank) can help with a lot of things (UMD, Intimidate, burst AC, burst attack, etc...).
-Higher starting Cha is more important in this case than Con, as it will help you gain the higher tiers of Divine Might.

Don't get me wrong, dwarves have a lot going for them, but I think the benefits are largely eclipsed by human's better fit.

[Junts]

Greetings all. My first few builds were squishy types and now I'm ready to step into a more agressive melee role. I overheard reccomendations for a dwarf paladin/fighter build but have been unable to locate it on these forums. The build went something like 1st paladin 2nd level fighter then finish out paladin.
Does anyone recognize this as a specific build that I have overlooked here?

I did see the human 18/2 combo which reccomended 1st & 8th levels fighter with all remaining levels between and above paladin. This confused me somewhat as I have not multiclassed before in DDO and am not entirely sure how the point cost breaks down. Seems like you would want to take your primary class first to alleviate point costs later down the line, but the system might not work like that, and I'm sure to much dismay alot of you have figured that out by now. These forums are much appreciated by many for the time saving knowledge shared.

Sounds like you were looking at my build:

fighters get more class skills than paladins, and you get 4x skill points at level 1. taking fighter 1 lets you raise skills like jump which are not class skills for a paladin fully, and you will not have to 'catch up' the class skill (intimidate) that you are increasing with your paladin levels.

The 2nd level is placed where it can be used again to 'max out the extra skill points it grants, and in this case, at the minimum level available to let the fighter bonus feat be used for the feat its being used on (improved critical requires a bab of 8, so it cannot be taken at a lower level than 8).

Taking pal first on a pal/2 fighter build would not be a very good idea.

If you are planning on a dwarf, yo uwould be well advised to change the starting statistics significantly from my build, as a dwarf will need a lot more dexterity to make use of dwarven armor mastery .. otherwise, being a dwarf is just -2 charisma, and is actually hurting you.

[sephiroth1084]

Hey Junts, do you feel that the Maximize/Quicken option is at all worthwhile before obtaining the Torq and/or Concordant Opp?

Do you find that in some situations you'd really like to have more DPS vs. the self-healing?

[Garseya]

I was looking at your build Junts, and will roll him as human as soon as Thelanis gets back online. Very grateful for the time and advice you guys devote. Apparently I spread around to much rep today.... Hopefully, I'll be a contributor rather than inquisitor soon enough... I'm still recovering from a near heart attack wondering what I did to get kicked out of 2 guilds at once! It was so shocking as to make me chuckle... feel bad for our poor game workers though, they are catching alot of heat.. I enjoyed the break and meeting some new folks on different servers today.

Thanks again!

[Junts]

Hey Junts, do you feel that the Maximize/Quicken option is at all worthwhile before obtaining the Torq and/or Concordant Opp?

Do you find that in some situations you'd really like to have more DPS vs. the self-healing?

I probably wouldn't take the feats without the mana regen items; if I were to redo things and work in the twf feats, or thf feats, it would not be at the cost of max/quicken, as I'm a really big fan of reliable self-healing, and the build just doesn't get to 39 umd without gear swaps, which means they're not reliable in my view.

The way my specific build has worked out (17 base str, 4 cha tome for dm3), he has about the best possible dps you can pull out of sword and board, and I'm not that unhappy with it (its pretty hard to get 200 dps with a shield, but he does it with a lit2 in his hand). I have a double pos gs greataxe raise clicky, and I only use it for epic when the -2 to hit from my tower shield is an issue: the lit2 does comparable dps otherwise, though obviously a dedicated lit2 falchion would be better.

I don't know how replicable the dps potential of my build is, becaus emost people would not build for the +4 tome, would probably want to start with 12 instead of 11 intelligence, among other things. However, the +4 tome means I don't even really plan a lesser or greater reincarnation for the character, as luck has made his initial stat distribution work out perfectly for the stuff he's got.

If I were making a new build now, I would definitely start with different stats (16 cha, 12 int, possibly 14 dex, and less str because of it), because not having dm3 was a major build problem prior to the tome. I rolled the toon in mod7, so divine might wasn't a thing when I created him.

The self-healing is just straight up amazing, but I just cant see itw orking with at least one of the two sp regen items (I also have two sets of vile blasphemy on the toon, but rarely use all 6 charges). I think you could use empower healing without quicken with just a concordant opposition, but quickened, 150 pointers and stuff just have to wait on the torc.

if anything, I'd be more likely to consider dropping extend spell for empower healing!

Its kinda fun playing a character who can fight raid bosses solo and regenerate sp in the process.

[sephiroth1084]

I probably wouldn't take the feats without the mana regen items; if I were to redo things and work in the twf feats, or thf feats, it would not be at the cost of max/quicken, as I'm a really big fan of reliable self-healing, and the build just doesn't get to 39 umd without gear swaps, which means they're not reliable in my view.

The way my specific build has worked out (17 base str, 4 cha tome for dm3), he has about the best possible dps you can pull out of sword and board, and I'm not that unhappy with it (its pretty hard to get 200 dps with a shield, but he does it with a lit2 in his hand). I have a double pos gs greataxe raise clicky, and I only use it for epic when the -2 to hit from my tower shield is an issue: the lit2 does comparable dps otherwise, though obviously a dedicated lit2 falchion would be better.

I don't know how replicable the dps potential of my build is, becaus emost people would not build for the +4 tome, would probably want to start with 12 instead of 11 intelligence, among other things. However, the +4 tome means I don't even really plan a lesser or greater reincarnation for the character, as luck has made his initial stat distribution work out perfectly for the stuff he's got.

If I were making a new build now, I would definitely start with different stats (16 cha, 12 int, possibly 14 dex, and less str because of it), because not having dm3 was a major build problem prior to the tome. I rolled the toon in mod7, so divine might wasn't a thing when I created him.

The self-healing is just straight up amazing, but I just cant see itw orking with at least one of the two sp regen items (I also have two sets of vile blasphemy on the toon, but rarely use all 6 charges). I think you could use empower healing without quicken with just a concordant opposition, but quickened, 150 pointers and stuff just have to wait on the torc.

if anything, I'd be more likely to consider dropping extend spell for empower healing!

Its kinda fun playing a character who can fight raid bosses solo and regenerate sp in the process.

Yeah, I've started running Ferrumrym and Ferrumshot through DQ in the hope of pulling a Torq, and will throw tier III on my Existential Stalemate goggles on F-rym whenever the Shroud opens again. Not sure what I'll drop on F-rym for Maximize though...maybe Skill Focus: Intimidate, or GTHF.

Seems like I might be able to do without Quicken, but I haven't the experience to judge. I seem to recall you saying that you don't have high AC on your guy, to better support the mana regen, but do you think a high-AC character would be able to get away with this without Quicken? I know that with some decent timing and shield blocking I can get off buffs while main tanking Horoth, but not very consistently.

[Junts]

Yeah, I've started running Ferrumrym and Ferrumshot through DQ in the hope of pulling a Torq, and will throw tier III on my Existential Stalemate goggles on F-rym whenever the Shroud opens again. Not sure what I'll drop on F-rym for Maximize though...maybe Skill Focus: Intimidate, or GTHF.

Seems like I might be able to do without Quicken, but I haven't the experience to judge. I seem to recall you saying that you don't have high AC on your guy, to better support the mana regen, but do you think a high-AC character would be able to get away with this without Quicken? I know that with some decent timing and shield blocking I can get off buffs while main tanking Horoth, but not very consistently.

I should edit

I have two paladins with max and quicken: one is a 18 pal/2 fighter intimitank who has about the maximum available armor class (raid buff 83). That's the build that the OP was working from: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=175058

The other is a twf /2 monk dps build with no ac and a ton of guard damage items. Both are designed for self healing with the same feats, though the second has enough ap to take a higher level of paladin devotion: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=204161

the first character is totally sustainable, and can solo elite shavarath quests and gain sp in each room (say, of sins). The second doesn't have the torc but I dont expect her to be quite so sustainable.

My first character has no concentration (all his sp went to intimidate and umd, as Im sure yyou're familiar with), and a 14 concentration score means even a grazing hit can force a concentration failure.

if you wanted to rely on lay hands to heal yourself in mid-melee, you could, but if you want to be able to tank 15 orthons at once and heal yourself through it, you will need quicken

My intimitank paladin can run through sins of attrition without any invis item until red alert happens, stop and stance, and with power attack dps through every mob while gaining sp for his trouble (half the mobs get stuck and dont teleport anyway, so its faster than full clearing). without quicken, this jsut woudlnt be possible

My paladin's feat selection doesn't involve any thf feats, as I almost never use two handed. I never bothere dto make a separate 2handed dps weapon (i was a pierce-spec with wop rapier and only using a min2 khopesh, so I didnt have ic for any two-hander to justify making one), and my lit2 is better than any 2hander I have due to the extra damage.

I've thought about including it for epic, just to dith the -2 to hit from the tower shield, but I've never really considered adding thf feats for dps purposes; the gain is too marginal on a build that's not focused on its secondary dps to be worth multiple feat slots.

Some extra glancing blows against arraetrikos and nythiros are not a significant reason to burn multiple feat slots imo.

[sephiroth1084]

I should edit

I have two paladins with max and quicken: one is a 18 pal/2 fighter intimitank who has about the maximum available armor class (raid buff 83). That's the build that the OP was working from: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=175058

The other is a twf /2 monk dps build with no ac and a ton of guard damage items. Both are designed for self healing with the same feats, though the second has enough ap to take a higher level of paladin devotion: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=204161

the first character is totally sustainable, and can solo elite shavarath quests and gain sp in each room (say, of sins). The second doesn't have the torc but I dont expect her to be quite so sustainable.

My first character has no concentration (all his sp went to intimidate and umd, as Im sure yyou're familiar with), and a 14 concentration score means even a grazing hit can force a concentration failure.

if you wanted to rely on lay hands to heal yourself in mid-melee, you could, but if you want to be able to tank 15 orthons at once and heal yourself through it, you will need quicken

My intimitank paladin can run through sins of attrition without any invis item until red alert happens, stop and stance, and with power attack dps through every mob while gaining sp for his trouble (half the mobs get stuck and dont teleport anyway, so its faster than full clearing). without quicken, this jsut woudlnt be possible

My paladin's feat selection doesn't involve any thf feats, as I almost never use two handed. I never bothere dto make a separate 2handed dps weapon (i was a pierce-spec with wop rapier and only using a min2 khopesh, so I didnt have ic for any two-hander to justify making one), and my lit2 is better than any 2hander I have due to the extra damage.

I've thought about including it for epic, just to dith the -2 to hit from the tower shield, but I've never really considered adding thf feats for dps purposes; the gain is too marginal on a build that's not focused on its secondary dps to be worth multiple feat slots.

Some extra glancing blows against arraetrikos and nythiros are not a significant reason to burn multiple feat slots imo.

Interesting. Thanks, Junts! This has given me some stuff to mull over.