Elf Assassin III (LF Build Feedback)

[Mavren]

Hey all.
Well, with the new server out, and me beign a new player, it's a great place for me to test out my idea i've had.
So far i've been working on a battle cleric build of mine and Thanimal's Tinkerer build, having great fun with both.

After the short discussion in my Rapier question thread ( http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=212353 ), I came up with this build:

Notes:
-I am still staying DEX based, please do not try to morph this into a STR build. I'd like to play around with the DEX concept, but just don't want it to be gimped, thus i'm posting here
- No Drow, otherwise i'd use it, but I don't think it too much of a loss using regular elf.
- 28pt

Build Goals:
-Sneakiness, a.k.a. "Rogue Feel"
------- I want to be able to do *most* traps, and be the type of rogue who is an assest to the group, I sneak in -------- to attack, not looking to rush in head first with this build.
- Dex focused and built.
- Dual Rapiers (main reason for elf)
- Above "good" DPS, not the best, but noticeably above par.

The Build - Base; no gear equipped:

True Neutral 19Rog/ 1 Ftr
Took the 1 Ftr Level for the 1 extra feat I wanted, and I didn't think Missing Rog 20 was a big loss.

Stats L1 / L20:
STR: 14 / 14
DEX: 18 / 26
CON: 12 / 12
INT: 14 / 14
WIS: 8 / 8
CHA: 8 / 8

Base HP:
216

Leveling and Skills:
Rog 1:
+4 in; Bluff, Diplomacy, Disable, Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, Search, Spot, UMD
+3 in Balance
+1 in Tumble
Ftr 2:
+1 in Bluff, UMD
Rog 3-5:
+1 in Bluff, Diplomacy, Disable, Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, Search Spot, UMD, Balance.
Rog 6-20:
+1 in same as above save for Balance, take balance point into Jump.

Skills Total Modifiers at 20:
Balance +14
Bluff +28
Diplomacy +21
Disable Device +24
Haggle -1
Hide +38
Intimidate -1
Jump +17
Listen +1
Move Silently +38
Open Lock + 30
Repair +2
Search +26
Spot +23
Swim +2
Tumble +9
UMD + 22
Concentration +1
Heal -1


Feats
1 - TWF
2 - (Ftr Bonus) Weapon Finesse
3 - OTWF
6 - Power Attack
9 - ITWF
11 - (Rog bonus) Imp. Evasion
12 - Imp. Crit - Piercing
14 - (Rog Bonus) Crippling Strike
15 - GTWF
17 - (Rog Bonus) Defensive Roll
18 - Toughness
20 - (Rog Bonus) Slippery Mind

Enhancements:
Rogue Damage Boost III
Rogue Skill Boost I
Elven Dexterity II
Elven Enhancement Resistance II
Aerenal Meele Attack I
Aerenal Meele Damage II
Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III
Racial Toughness II
Rogue Faster Sneaking IV
Rogue Assassin III
Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Rogue Hide II
Rogue Move Silently II
Rogue Dexterity I
Fighter Toughness I

Base Saves:
Fort/Reflex/Will
@1 - 1/6/-1

@20 - 9/19/5


Thanks In advance

[hydra_ex]

You're better off going hafling. They get enhc which increase SA to-hit and dmg, and they get that extra to hit as well for being small. Also, they get bonuses to sneaking.

Other than that, there's no reason to change anything (within the frame of "DEX-build")

[Mavren]

You're better off going hafling. They get enhc which increase SA to-hit and dmg, and they get that extra to hit as well for being small. Also, they get bonuses to sneaking.

Would the SA bonuses outweigh a +1 mod to STR and Rapier bonuses? And Would I have the Enhancement points for it really you think?

[hydra_ex]

Could you please expand on that a bit? I don't see a real reason to go Halfing over my reasoning for Elf.

Halfling does not have the rapier specialization, a bit of a loss IMO.
Also, To keep the 18 dex, 12 con, and 14 int, my str would be limited to 13 with 28pts, it is enough to meet min requirement for Power Attack, but I could stay elf and get 1 more +1 mod hitting 14 Str.

The sneak bonuses, and To hit bonus are nice... But I would still imagine elf to be better due to weapon choice.

Haflings get 4 tiers of SA attk and dmg. Thats +4 to-hit and dmg when SA. Thats 2 more than your elf, and 1 more when you str is considered. The to-hit is further 1 more, because haflings are small. And a rogue should always be sneak attacking. Also, the halfling has bonuses to sneaking.

A 14 CON would probably do you better than a 14 STR, as much of your damage will come from SA anyways, as mentioned above.

[Mavren]

Haflings get 4 tiers of SA attk and dmg. Thats +4 to-hit and dmg when SA. Thats 2 more than your elf, and 1 more when you str is considered. The to-hit is further 1 more, because haflings are small. And a rogue should always be sneak attacking. Also, the halfling has bonuses to sneaking.

A 14 CON would probably do you better than a 14 STR, as much of your damage will come from SA anyways, as mentioned above.

Allright, thanks, I'm going to work this a bit as a halfling on the Builder...
I'll probably just be going Rog 20 then, as the halfling version won't be taking power attack.
It's a viable point.
Thanks for the quick response, btw

Anyone else notice anything?

[hydra_ex]

Allright, thanks, I'm going to work this a bit as a halfling on the Builder...
I'll probably just be going Rog 20 then, as the halfling version won't be taking power attack.
It's a viable point.
Thanks for the quick response, btw

Anyone else notice anything?

If you can't get PA, then there's no point going halfling. Try the following starting stats.

STR 13 (8 pts)
DEX 18 (10 pts)
CON 14 (6 pts)
INT 12 (5 pts)
WIS 8
CHA 8

Or you can always eat an easily acquirable +1 STR tome to qualify. Even if it takes you a while, you can always just take it at lvl 16ish (by then you'll be able to afford it FOR SURE) or just respec a feat later on once you get one)

[samcreatesmusic]

It all depends on what you want to do... All things being equal, Elves compared to a halfling have +2 damage with rapiers and a +2 STR. If you want to be able to do more damage whle aggro is on you and while fighting undead (who can't be sneak attacked) then Elf is the better choice. But if you want most of your damage output to be while SA then halfling is going to be the better choice. Neither is bad, it just depends on your concept. If I might, however, ask, is there a strong particular reason you want to be true neutral? In my experience going Good is way better because the best weapons for you to be using are going to be pure good weapons.

[hydra_ex]

It all depends on what you want to do... All things being equal, Elves compared to a halfling have +2 damage with rapiers and a +2 STR. If you want to be able to do more damage whle aggro is on you and while fighting undead (who can't be sneak attacked) then Elf is the better choice. But if you want most of your damage output to be while SA then halfling is going to be the better choice. Neither is bad, it just depends on your concept. If I might, however, ask, is there a strong particular reason you want to be true neutral? In my experience going Good is way better because the best weapons for you to be using are going to be pure good weapons.

True Neutral is the only feasible alignment for a character with UMD, since they can use all items without penalty.

[Mavren]

true Neutral Is The Only Feasible Alignment For A Character With Umd, Since They Can Use All Items Without Penalty.

^ He Answerd for me!

[Mavren]

If you can't get PA, then there's no point going halfling. Try the following starting stats.

STR 13 (8 pts)
DEX 18 (10 pts)
CON 14 (6 pts)
INT 12 (5 pts)
WIS 8
CHA 8

Or you can always eat an easily acquirable +1 STR tome to qualify. Even if it takes you a while, you can always just take it at lvl 16ish (by then you'll be able to afford it FOR SURE) or just respec a feat later on once you get one)

If I were to do the starting stats stated above, what skill would you Drop? As I'd lose +4 skill points at level 1, and +1 every level after, so that al lthe points into one skill. I couldn't really decide...

[hydra_ex]

If I were to do the starting stats stated above, what skill would you Drop? As I'd lose +4 skill points at level 1, and +1 every level after, so that al lthe points into one skill. I couldn't really decide...

Bluff and Diplomacy, although they look good on paper, are not that good in practise, as they take time to use, and DCs only climb. I would drop diplo before bluff.

[samcreatesmusic]

True Neutral is the only feasible alignment for a character with UMD, since they can use all items without penalty.

Well, you can argue it either way, however I think you are overstating your case. There are advantages to having a high UMD and being True Neutral, I don't think it is the only feasible alignment to be, however. IMHO I don't think those advantages outweigh being good aligned and being able to use pure good weapons early on and the Raise Dead ring later on....

[hydra_ex]

Well, you can argue it either way, however I think you are overstating your case. There are advantages to having a high UMD and being True Neutral, I don't think it is the only feasible alignment to be, however. IMHO I don't think those advantages outweigh being good aligned and being able to use pure good weapons early on and the Raise Dead ring later on....

Why would anyone who can use raid dead scrolls, and possible even resurrection scrolls, want to use the res ring?

The only point you have is when lvling up, and only then, its doing Delera's. Sure, its annoying, but one quest out of many won't do much harm. You can even put off running it. Also, they can still use holy.

[Mavren]

Bluff and Diplomacy, although they look good on paper, are not that good in practise, as they take time to use, and DCs only climb. I would drop diplo before bluff.

Dropping Diplo sounds good
Thanks again... Now lemme go work this out in the builder once more!

[QuantumFX]

Actually, halfling isn’t as strong as Hydra thinks. Just because a race gets access to sneak attack enhancements doesn’t mean they can afford all the sneak attack enhancements. The reason why halflings make excellent Thief-Acrobats is because they can take Halfling Cunning rather than Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy. An Assassin build requires you to take Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy 4.

[hydra_ex]

Actually, halfling isn’t as strong as Hydra thinks. Just because a race gets access to sneak attack enhancements doesn’t mean they can afford all the sneak attack enhancements. The reason why halflings make excellent Thief-Acrobats is because they can take Halfling Cunning rather than Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy. An Assassin build requires you to take Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy 4.

But conversely, going elf means you must take the elf enhc as well.

Granted, it is 2 APs less, iirc.

[Mavren]

Allright, I builtthe halfling Version...

Things lost from Elf Version:
Rogue Damage boost III, only rank II now.
Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II, only rank II now.
Racial Toughness II, only rank I now.*
Fighter Toughness I, did not take.*

* Even without these two enhancements, the HP is still the same Base at 216, due to 14 starting CON.

I did fit in all 4 ranks of Halfling Guile/Cunning however... so it does work...

Honestly, it seems like they both would put out near the same amout of damage, but i'll be going halfing with this guy thanks Hydra.

(Honestly not a big Elf Fan... just did it cause it seemed best)

[QuantumFX]

I did fit in all 4 ranks of Halfling Guile/Cunning however... so it does work...

Where’s your Rogue Haste boost? +30% attack speed > +8 Sneak Attack Damage.

[Mavren]

Where’s your Rogue Haste boost? +30% attack speed > +8 Sneak Attack Damage.

Is +25% Attack speed still > +8 SA Damage?

If So:
Drop rank IV of Halfling Guile and Cunning, Pick up Rogue Haste Boost III, and Racial Toughness II with the spare 2 points.

How's that work?

[hydra_ex]

Is +25% Attack speed still > +8 SA Damage?

If So:
Drop rank IV of Halfling Guile and Cunning, Pick up Rogue Haste Boost III, and Racial Toughness II with the spare 2 points.

How's that work?

Yes, especially with TWF.

And I really woudn't worry too much about spending APs increasing your Hide/MS or sneak speed too much (the first tier for sneak speed will do). Rogues don't need to be sneaking to get their sneak attacks, and there will always be mobs to assassinate while everyone else is fighting another, so don't worry about getting there first, necessarily.