What do I bring to the party?

[Fenrisulven6]

Okay, I'm finally starting to get bored parked at 6th (sorc), 8th (rog) and 9th (clr).

Ready to run my first toon up to cap. Or at least be Shroud worthy.

What do you guys recommend? Whats most useful or most needed for raids at endgame?

[Oreg]

Good Players.

Which ironically has nothing to do with class played.....

[Renegade66]

Good Players.

Which ironically has nothing to do with class played.....

/QFT

However, if you want in good groups as a no-name or as a less skilled player, your best bet is a Bard with max damage and long songs. We get your buffs then carry your stone if necessary and rez when songs are needed again.

[Murgatroyd]

We get your buffs then carry your stone if necessary and rez when songs are needed again.

That's cold Obi wan

[Bartikus]

/QFT

However, if you want in good groups as a no-name or as a less skilled player, your best bet is a Bard with max damage and long songs. We get your buffs then carry your stone if necessary and rez when songs are needed again.

Darn Ren,

You always find the soothing words... I know, its a gift.

[Fenrisulven6]

Hmmm. Well this is a bit confusing. I would have assumed that end game raids didn't suffer from poor players - it should be all-pro.

Regardless, I'm not worried. Alot of guilds have me on speed-dial for when they need a decent player to fill out their groups. So I must be doing something right. As long as I listen to advice and follow orders, I should be fine.

Most groups take one or two. Usually they take 8 melees

So, to have the most opportunity for invites into end game raids, it sounds like I should go melee?

[Minor_Threat]

If you are really a "Good" player then you will have a decent build.

The 2 go hand in hand.

[bobbryan2]

So, to have the most opportunity for invites into end game raids, it sounds like I should go melee?

Melees are very needed. Melees are also more gear intensive. Dual Min IIs and the like to really achieve endgame DPS.

Again, if you don't have a lot of raid loot and gear, you can go bard or cleric and get by easily enough.

[Quikster]

Good Players.

Which ironically has nothing to do with class played.....

/signed

More often then not Id rather have a solid player then a specific class. There are exceptions, but with there being 12 raid spots usually we can make it work with the best players available and whatever they have off timer.


The bard option is good as well. Though you didnt mention one in the OP.

Of the alts you listed any would be fine, although the cleric would have an wider variety of groups available prolly, unless your hooked into a group that raids a lot.

Seriously, you have been playing this long and only have those alts at those levels? Thats pretty impressive actually.

[78mackson]

Good Players.

Which ironically has nothing to do with class played.....

I dont care how good of a player you are, if your melee and hit for 25-30dps/second vs harry its going to cost the cleric resources. In bad groups its wipe nomatter how good player you are, cause skill is no factor for end-game raiding.

Your class of choice can be a huge factor thou.
If you dont have rescources dont try: Ranger, fighter, barbarian, tank(all of these are great til lvl10!)
somewhat less mediocre is: Bard, rogues
good/exellent choices: Cleric, Paladin, Wizard, Sorcerer

[Quikster]

I dont care how good of a player you are, if your melee and hit for 25-30dps/second vs harry its going to cost the cleric resources. In bad groups its wipe nomatter how good player you are, cause skill is no factor for end-game raiding.

Your class of choice can be a huge factor thou.
If you dont have rescources dont try: Ranger, fighter, barbarian, tank(all of these are great til lvl10!)
somewhat less mediocre is: Bard, rogues
good/exellent choices: Cleric, Paladin, Wizard, Sorcerer

I disagree.

So long as you dont build a total gimp you are fine. End game raiding is more about skill and group cohesiveness then anything. Of course your alts need to be able to do their job. The OP has been playing long enough, and on the forums long enough to know not to build a high wisdom, high charisma battle wiz.

Your class choices are all borked btw. Bard/cleric prolly bring the most to the table with basic game skills. The more skills the more they bring. Anyone can play a ranger, fighter or barb endgame are you kidding? Buff stand and swing, how hard is that. Anything else they can do is a +

Paladin is prolly the hardest to play, casters at endgame raids rarely get into groups. Most groups take one or two. Usually they take 8 melees. So trying to those are most needed for end game raids is just silly.

Oh and you dont hit for 25-30dps/second. Try reading some dps calcs and see if you can get this right.

[BattleCircle]

I dont care how good of a player you are, if your melee and hit for 25-30dps/second vs harry its going to cost the cleric resources. In bad groups its wipe nomatter how good player you are, cause skill is no factor for end-game raiding.

Your class of choice can be a huge factor thou.
If you dont have rescources dont try: Ranger, fighter, barbarian, tank(all of these are great til lvl10!)
somewhat less mediocre is: Bard, rogues
good/exellent choices: Cleric, Paladin, Wizard, Sorcerer

WOW, talk about no clue....

DUDE? do you even play this game?

Seriously?

I mean 'cause nothing you wrote translates into the game that I have been playing.

This is DDO, there is considerable skill and to a degree "intelligence" involved. I think maybe you are on the wrong forum.

[Tin_Dragon]

I dont care how good of a player you are, if your melee and hit for 25-30dps/second vs harry its going to cost the cleric resources. In bad groups its wipe nomatter how good player you are, cause skill is no factor for end-game raiding.
Your class of choice can be a huge factor thou.
If you dont have rescources dont try: Ranger, fighter, barbarian, tank(all of these are great til lvl10!)
somewhat less mediocre is: Bard, rogues
good/exellent choices: Cleric, Paladin, Wizard, Sorcerer

ugh, just ugh.

There are so many things wrong with what you have said here, I bet most folks just dont think your worth flaming after that.

This is a case where we can point to join date, then to thread, and "just say No".

[78mackson]

ugh, just ugh.

There are so many things wrong with what you have said here, I bet most folks just dont think your worth flaming after that.

This is a case where we can point to join date, then to thread, and "just say No".

Pls enlighten me how a poorly equipped barbarian is going to save the day in a shroud when he is not getting healed, I´d love to see you explaining that?

@battlecircle
skills.. really? maybe this game is challenging for you, but its EASY! probably the easiest MMO out there. I dont know many other mmo´s where the clerics could be in phone or watch a film while still doing a perfect job.. or a melee can turn on auto attack then go afk(yes, I did that in shroud pre-mod8, that was the best time to fix some coffee or take a bio.)

ToD is pretty braindead unless your the kiter or the tank(and tanking in this game is pretty braindead/poorly implemented as it is). If you got a good kiter and a good tank ToD is a 100% win-guarantee.

do I play the game? Yes, I´m not much of a soloist but we did a 3 man vod in 25 min, 2 bards and a "monster". I´ve also been into an all ranger shroud when that raid was released...

My join date is on the US-servers, cause I got no reason to re-roll nor roll more toons there. Its a challenge to be fresh on a server... and I can tell you what.. there is a reason why my rangers are parked at lvl10 cause I know they will be sub-par(to my standards) at end game without gear... while a paladin dont need a single scale and still be TOP-dps(very usefull in raids) while maintaining some sort of self-reliance/which I find very important especially when you more then likely must fraternise with clerics who cant tie their own shoe laces aka "Hjoow do I heejl you all at ooonce.. its impossible!".

[Tin_Dragon]

Pls enlighten me how a poorly equipped barbarian is going to save the day in a shroud when he is not getting healed, I´d love to see you explaining that?


Explain how a well equipped barb "saves the day" in a Shroud if the player has no clue

@battlecircle
skills.. really? maybe this game is challenging for you, but its EASY! probably the easiest MMO out there. I dont know many other mmo´s where the clerics could be in phone or watch a film while still doing a perfect job.. or a melee can turn on auto attack then go afk(yes, I did that in shroud pre-mod8, that was the best time to fix some coffee or take a bio.)
If its so perfectly easy, why are there so many players who cant figure out they dont need maxed out Heal SKILL to complete quests on elite? Yes, some F2P noob tried to tell me that it cant be done.


ToD is pretty braindead unless your the kiter or the tank(and tanking in this game is pretty braindead/poorly implemented as it is). If you got a good kiter and a good tank ToD is a 100% win-guarantee.
Really, braindead? Why do you still play? I have my issues with some things around here, but that is a pretty blanket statement.


do I play the game? Yes, I´m not much of a soloist but we did a 3 man vod in 25 min, 2 bards and a "monster". I´ve also been into an all ranger shroud when that raid was released...

My join date is on the US-servers, cause I got no reason to re-roll nor roll more toons there. Its a challenge to be fresh on a server... and I can tell you what.. there is a reason why my rangers are parked at lvl10 cause I know they will be sub-par(to my standards) at end game without gear... while a paladin dont need a single scale and still be TOP-dps(very usefull in raids) while maintaining some sort of self-reliance/which I find very important especially when you more then likely must fraternise with clerics who cant tie their own shoe laces aka "Hjoow do I heejl you all at ooonce.. its impossible!".
You must be in some pretty sorry groups if your Pally can out DPS GS geared toons, maybe thats why your so jaded.

Yar.

[Keiran]

I dont care how good of a player you are, if your melee and hit for 25-30dps/second vs harry its going to cost the cleric resources. In bad groups its wipe nomatter how good player you are, cause skill is no factor for end-game raiding.

Your class of choice can be a huge factor thou.
If you dont have rescources dont try: Ranger, fighter, barbarian, tank(all of these are great til lvl10!)
somewhat less mediocre is: Bard, rogues
good/exellent choices: Cleric, Paladin, Wizard, Sorcerer

I have to address the comments that skill doesn't matter if you do poor DPS...do you even understand what you said?

How can you be "skilled" and then do poorly? If you're doing poorly, you're not skilled. If you're skilled, you're not doing poorly.

Next, how do you justify labeling "tanks" as a high-resource class and not healers? And what the hell does level 10 have to do with anything? Or have you just not made it past 10 (thus you have no idea what 'end-game' raiding entails and shouldn't be commenting on it) so you're telling him you've enjoyed those classes up to 10?

Oh and you labeled rogues as "somewhat less mediocre"? I don't see your greataxe popping the trap box there sparky...let's not even mention you obviously have no idea how rogue DPS works or you'd realize they're some of the highest output in the game.

[Anneliese]

78mackson does not say that any class is mediocre etc, he just states how gear intensive they are.

And he is mostly right.

Lets take the shroud:

A paladin can cast holy sword, go KotC3 and everyone will be happy. Same for a Wiz/Sorc..grab a false life/con item, a sup pot6 weapon, a SP item and you are a valueable party member.

But lets look at a Ranger: He needs quite some grinding until his AC is ok, and especially until he aquires good weapons (unless the loot gods love him).

[Bunker]

78mackson does not say that any class is mediocre etc, he just states how gear intensive they are.

And he is mostly right.

Lets take the shroud:

A paladin can cast holy sword, go KotC3 and everyone will be happy. Same for a Wiz/Sorc..grab a false life/con item, a sup pot6 weapon, a SP item and you are a valueable party member.

But lets look at a Ranger: He needs quite some grinding until his AC is ok, and especially until he aquires good weapons (unless the loot gods love him).

But take the ranger approach for the paladin you stated above. Frankly, all classes require as little or as much tweaking as any other. Totally up to the choice of the player. Using 1 quest as an example really doesn't make a case when taking the whole game into consideration.

[78mackson]

78mackson does not say that any class is mediocre etc, he just states how gear intensive they are.

And he is mostly right.

Lets take the shroud:

A paladin can cast holy sword, go KotC3 and everyone will be happy. Same for a Wiz/Sorc..grab a false life/con item, a sup pot6 weapon, a SP item and you are a valueable party member.

But lets look at a Ranger: He needs quite some grinding until his AC is ok, and especially until he aquires good weapons (unless the loot gods love him).

thanx for clearing it up.

[Keiran]

somewhat less mediocre is: Bard, rogues

78mackson does not say that any class is mediocre etc

You're absolutely right, how could I have mistakenly thought he used to the word mediocre when he clearly didn't.

As far as saying he was claiming the classes to be "gear intensive", if he had meant that, he should have stated such: seeing as he didn't, you can't tell me what he meant any more than I can hypothesize myself...therefore I used the literal meanings presented. Instead of "gear intensive", he used the word resources...and nobody can possibly tell me that a tank spends more resources than a healer. It just doesn't happen. Buy all the "gear" you want, but have you ever funded wands/scrolls/pots/reagents/etc for a healer?

And regardless of the failed understanding of resources/gear/usefulness/etc...the overall claim of his argument is that skill doesn't matter. I was telling him he's wrong, because he is. Does gear matter? Yes, of course it does...the lvl16 in +2 stat items and korthos island gear is a liability: but to claim skill doesn't matter at all is ridiculous. Skill doesn't just come in the form of executing your role (especially in a straight forward game like this), it also - mainly - comes in an ability to properly design, build, and outfit your toon. If you lack the skill to build your toon right, you're just as much a useless sack of skin (or bolts) as the undergeared fellow in the group.