Advise pls: 6 clr 14 rng

[Quelle]

With my favor getting close to 32 point enabled and having made some mistakes with my current version, I'd really appreciate some suggestions on how or what to do while building a 6 cleric 14 ranger.

Please no comments along the lines of "Why do that when you would get so much more from xxx".

My basic goal is to create a character that is versatile in the various obvious places - elemental buffs, ranger buffs, ad hoc healing, decent ac and dps, the ability to rez.

The one stipulation is that this character must start as an elf in order to take the enhancement that allows it to resurrect at level 6.

I dont have any objection to dropping one or more ranger levels if doing so would make stronger character at the end of the day.

I have no particular goals feat wise though I would like to have Extend Spell.

I am not overly interested in gear or tomes since, being a bit noob, I find that they cloud the basic outline of what is going on. I would though be delighted to see any appended suggestions regarding gear or points where using a +1 tome might allow me to do better.

Thank you in advance to anyone who takes the time to help me make more informed decisions than I am likely to make at the moment.

[MissErres]

Ranged or Melee??

[Avonwey]

My advice would be to drop the 6 levels of cleric.

[Draclaud]

With my favor getting close to 32 point enabled and having made some mistakes with my current version, I'd really appreciate some suggestions on how or what to do while building a 6 cleric 14 ranger.

Please no comments along the lines of "Why do that when you would get so much more from xxx".

My basic goal is to create a character that is versatile in the various obvious places - elemental buffs, ranger buffs, ad hoc healing, decent ac and dps, the ability to rez.

The one stipulation is that this character must start as an elf in order to take the enhancement that allows it to resurrect at level 6.

I dont have any objection to dropping one or more ranger levels if doing so would make stronger character at the end of the day.

I have no particular goals feat wise though I would like to have Extend Spell.

I am not overly interested in gear or tomes since, being a bit noob, I find that they cloud the basic outline of what is going on. I would though be delighted to see any appended suggestions regarding gear or points where using a +1 tome might allow me to do better.

Thank you in advance to anyone who takes the time to help me make more informed decisions than I am likely to make at the moment.

Outside of Barkskin and Rams, you could accomplish this by going FvS. For evasion on a FvS mix in two Monk levels. Another thing to consider is changing your cleric levels to Paladin levels. You'd still get your raise dead faith enhancment with the added bonus of more mele ability, fear immunity ect. There are many ways to accomplish what you are trying to do here. Good luck and welcome to the game!

[Impaqt]

L6 Clerical healing is darn near Useless end game. Its not a good plan. Plus, A L20 ranger has the EXACT same healing Spell selction as a L6 Cleric. The concept just doesnt make sense at all.

[MissErres]

My advice would be to drop the 6 levels of cleric.

Agreed. There's not much in the way of buffing/healing that a cleric can do that a ranger can't. Yes, there are a few (true seeing, death ward, mass buffs) but nothing that is a deal breaker and many items can be acquired that can compensate.

But if you have your heart set on the 6 lvls of cleric, we need a bit more info on what you want to do with the build.

[dopey69]

that stopping cleric at lvl 6 might be a mistake,you get new spells at lvl 5 or 7 so one of those would be a better split poin imo. If you want more cleric stuffs as in better chance at raise dead scrolls etc the split at 8 cleric this will give you 85% on raise scrolls iirc . if you want to split at lvl 5 cleric i would think about 12 ranger for the tempest 2 and 6 cleric and the 2 monk for evasion and the extra wisdom ac since your wisdom will be high ne ways ... sounds like a fun soloable build to me .

[Lorien_the_First_One]

As others have said, that 6 cleric looks like it will really hurt you. What do you see this adding to your build?

[Quelle]

Outside of Barkskin and Rams, you could accomplish this by going FvS. For evasion on a FvS mix in two Monk levels. Another thing to consider is changing your cleric levels to Paladin levels. You'd still get your raise dead faith enhancment with the added bonus of more mele ability, fear immunity ect. There are many ways to accomplish what you are trying to do here. Good luck and welcome to the game!

This is sort of along the lines of what I hoped for.

I really enjoy playing a character that has the ability to support other characters and the ability to rez without being stuck in the role of cleric per se was a lot of my rational for trying out the current character.

As for why not paladin, probably because I never liked them and I didnt really want to put points in charisma.

Ranged or melee? I really dont know enough about rangers (even from reading threads here) wrt what the different playstyles would be.

My current character has 25 str and 25 dex so is not bad with both (I think). On that character, I need Spring Attack to get Tempest, which is more or less where I am headed at the moment.

As for level 6 cleric heals being next to useless, well yep but they have proved very valuable at level 15 and at times, and this is the clincher in what I like about the idea so far, the fact that I have the heals and the mana to support them has meant that at times I have been able to act as stand in cleric. I appreciate that that may not remain the case.

[Quelle]

that stopping cleric at lvl 6 might be a mistake,you get new spells at lvl 5 or 7 so one of those would be a better split poin imo. If you want more cleric stuffs as in better chance at raise dead scrolls etc the split at 8 cleric this will give you 85% on raise scrolls iirc . if you want to split at lvl 5 cleric i would think about 12 ranger for the tempest 2 and 6 cleric and the 2 monk for evasion and the extra wisdom ac since your wisdom will be high ne ways ... sounds like a fun soloable build to me .

So how would I work that? I dont know alot about monks or where and when I might take monk levels.

And .. yes .. you caught me .. I am more after something fun than a necessarily world beating build.

[Orratti]

I am no expert at builds but throwing a few lvls of cleric on something isn't usually a good idea its better to do it the other way around. Putting 6 lvls of something into something else isn't usually going to work as well as putting 1-3 lvls. There are some exceptions but from what I've seen they are mostly tank mixes with something like rogue for backstab. Most of what 6 lvls of cleric can give you you could get from evasion or pots and evasion you get later on the ranger so elemental resists and protections won't be as useful as the ranger levels would. Devine favor would increase you to hit but that is a low lvl spell and with 6 cleric lvls you get a total of +2th and dam. Bless adds +1, Prayer is short lived. Aid, bull's strength, bear's endurance and resists all come in pots, I can understand not wanting to buy them I don't think I have ever bought those but if you want the effects the price isn't really too bad if you are soloing and if in party you can ask for them and most likely get them. Most of the to hit bonuses from the spells will only be making up from the to hit losses from the cleric lvls. Really adding a lvl or two of monk would probably be superior as you would get the evasion much earlier and one or two combat feats for free plus wis bonus to your ac along with any dex bonuses you will have. That would mean no armor but if the bonuses are high enough you would be better off wearing none anyway and getting the black widow bracers from water works until you can get something better later.

Of course you weren't looking to be talked out of it and I will say that the combination is workable. Extend will make your buffs last longer on both the ranger and cleric buffs that was a pretty good call. I'm not sure that it will be better than a combat feat but it might. On a good note the cleric lvls will give you more spell points to use and the short to hit buffs along with bless should make sure you can still hit things well even later on. Soloing shouldn't be too hard although with wands rangers are pretty good at that anyway. Would stay as far away from ad hoc healing while in parties as I could. Dps is going to be your main goal. Anytime you drop out of fighting to help heal you will be making it worse for the group there are few exceptions. General rule is the quicker stuff dies the less damage the party will take that is why blade barriers are more effective than heals in a good group in most situations. If you are planning on taking the six cleric lvls early I'd take at least 2 ranger lvls before lvl 4 and find a good bow. With the cleric symbol beside your name you are going to be expected to heal and its easy to get tripped if your balance isn't good enough so staying back and doing lite dps with a bow while healing is a good strategy along with a command or soundburst here and there. Oh yeah and don't run with your aggro drop into shieldblock or melee and let the group take them out.

[Quelle]

Well thanks all for the replies. I have learned some things in addition to the reaction I expected "aarg 6 levels of cleric, you must be nuts"

I guess I am not that great at trying to ask what I meant because I wasnt entirely sure what terms are used to describe what I was asking.

I've made several charaters in several classes and never really tried a multi-class until this, so I dont really know enough to say to myself

"Ok Ranger/Cleric? You have these feats and enhancements to work with, with this becoming available at this level and that at that level and so what you really want to do is take this and this first and that and that later etc"

But, reading this forum I realised that there is a lot more sophistication and skill to building an interesting and effective character to your personal spec, whatever that might be, than just deciding what you want and throwing stuff together as you go along.

Someone good at building characters and wanting to try the idea would look at what feats etc would become available at what levels and use their knowledge to put that together into an effective whole.

So I guess what I was really saying was, I want to make the best out of the idea of a 6 clr / 14 rng and need so pointers toward how I can best do that.

I just dont have the depth of knowledge of each class or the experience of knowing how to put classes together to do it well.

But a lot of people here obviously know how DDO works very well and can probably look at the situation and say more or less of teh top of their heads,

"Well here are the advantages you have from cleric and here are those you have from ranger, you could put them together like this to get this result or like this to get this result"

So thats sort of what I was trying to ask for .. and am still hoping that a wiser, more experienced head might be able to help me with.



Looking at my existing character I can immediately spot some of that sort of thing, but only because I tried the character out to see roughly what would happen.

On my current character, the 5 cleric levels that I have give me:

More available spells - I have all the cleric selection plus the ranger selection, so typical load out for a level 5 clr plus bark, ram, jump and elemental protects on the ranger side

I get the cleric healing enhancements to make the most of the healing spells I do have.

I have Sovereign Host which gives me +1 to hit with longswords, a little compensation for the ranger levels that I might have instead.

In the setup I was thinking about I would have Unseen Court (whatever the high elf one is) that would mean I could rez with 6 cleric levels as well as having that +1 to hit but with scimitars.

Exactly how much I am losing, and I am sure its actually quite alot, I dont know.


I'm not trying to justify the feasibility of my idea ther. I'm just trying to explain what I have seen you guys talking about in much more detail than I just did.

There are some complete wizards out there who can probably just look at the basic idea and outline the pros and cons so that I can see how best to try to maximise an idea that I have already had fun with but just dont know how to make the most of.

[Strakeln]

My basic goal is to create a character that is versatile in the various obvious places - elemental buffs, ranger buffs, ad hoc healing, decent ac and dps, the ability to rez.

elemental buffs - you get these from being a ranger
ranger buffs - you get these from being a ranger
ad hoc healing - you get this from being a ranger
decent ac - you get this (and more) from being a ranger
decent dps - you get this (and more) from being a ranger
ability to rez - you get this from many places, but not from 6 levels of cleric.

I know it's not what you want to hear, but those six cleric levels will be six levels you will regret.

[honkuimushi]

A Ranger/ Cleric build can work, but look closely at Strakeln's list. The key to successful multiclassing is to look for synergy, and Cleric and Rangers don't have a lot of synergy in DDO. One of the best is to combine 2 or 3 front loaded classes. Rangers are somewhat middle loaded. They start to get really good around level 6 or 7 and keep going to 11 or12. Levels 13 and above slow things down, but they get improvements at levels 15, 18, and 20. Clerics on the other hand are very back loaded. The really start to shine around level 11 and keep getting better. They also don't have much stat synergy. While wisdom is helpful for Rangers, there's not much point to going above 14. You generall want to focus on strength for a Ranger. Yet without a high wisdom, you lose the offensive ability of a Cleric.

So lets get into specifics. First off, the level split. 14/6 is actually very weak. The only thing that levels 13 and 14 give you are 2 minutes on your Ranger buffs and level 4 Ranger spells. 12/ 8 is much better because that grants level 4 Cleric spells, which are much better. Yes, they will have a shorter duration, but the variety makes up for it. The only really nice level 4 Ranger Spell is Freedom of Movement. Level 4 Cleric spells include Death Ward, Divine Power, Freedom of Movement and Restoration(probably should be scrolled.) You also get a few nice cleric Enhancements. And the 2 extra Cleric levels make level 5 scrolls pretty reliable, including Raise Dead. Level 6 and Heal scrolls are going to be about a 65% chance which is probably too low to really be of much use. The comment about keeping your Ranger levels above your Cleric levels to avoid confusion when grouping. In any case, take the Ranger levels 1st, you get more skillpoints and TWF faster. I would take Cleric 1 at level 3.

In any case, the combination will be strong up until level 6 or 7. The extra spell points, increased access to wands and access to Cure Light Wounds makes a very survivable character that solos very well. But when Rangers start getting Tempest and Evasion, you won't have them and a few extra cure spells will be less of a benefit. At this point, you will be soloing less and Cleric Hirelings are an good option if you do. A dedicated Cleric will be a better healer and can buff you with almost anything you can do yourself and is better at it too. Once they get Heal and Mass Cures, your contribution will be even less.

But once you get to level 17 or so, you should begin to see things begin to come together. You'll have Evasion, GTWF, and level 3 and 4 Cleric Spells. You've traded 2 BAB and 2 Favored Enemies. The Cleric levels will give you Divine Favor, Divine Power, and maybe Divine Might. Your will save will be pretty good and Aid, Restoration, Deathward, increased wand healing and the chance to crit with healing spells is also nice. You also get a +1 to Hit with Scimitars from your faith enhancement. The trick is those middle 10 levels.

For stats I would go:
Str 16
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 14
Chr 12

I put the points into Chr so that the first rank of Divine Might is available with a +2 Tome. But other than this, the lack of benefits from Charisma is a weak point in this combination. Putting the 4 points into Con is probably the next best option.

For feats, I would go
1 Toughness
3 Dodge
6 Extend
9 IC: Slashing
12 Mobilty
15 Spring Attack
18 OTWF or Power Attack

For enhancements, take the regular Ranger ones and add in the Cleric healing crit enhancements, but use the Ranger Devotion enhancements because you can get them higher and you shouldn't be using Inflict spells. The wisdom increase is nice and it would be good to take a Turning enhancement unless you have gone with an 8 charisma. Divine Might is probably the best choice if you can get the 14 Charisma it requires. The Wand enhancements is probably one of the best enhancements. Of course clerics don't have their PrEs yet, so that could change tis build, and the enhancements in particular, a great deal.

Now to look at alternatives. Ranger will give you most of what you want. The main thing that you are missing from what you requested is the ability to raise. Honestly, the best way is with 6 or 8 levels of Paladin instead of Cleric. Paladin also gives you access to the faith enhancements at no loss of BAB. Divine Might is easier to obtain on a Paladin and you get more benefits from charisma, including saves and healing from LoH. You will even get more AC. But without a Monk splash, it will be hard to get a meaningful AC. In fact a Ranger 12/ Paladin 6/ Monk 2 might do what you want better than anything and Hunter of the Dead adds some nice benefits as well.

Now, going back to the Ranger Cleric idea, human is probably as good an option as elf. The extra feat can be used for khopesh. You can't get the Elf faith enhancement, but you will have about an 85 or 90% chance to use Raise Dead Scrolls at level 8 Cleric and the 1000 point heals might be more useful. The Human Healing Amplification would also make your self healing more effective.

This might not be exactly what you were asking for, but I hope you find some useful tidbits in here.