EPIC Wiz KIng Suggestions

[Wizzly_Bear]

You are correct about BB.

I was able to kill the Golems faster in my BBs than the tanks could. BB works great on mobs.

And the person suggesting Flesh to stone on mummies .. yeah that works great on lower difficulties but its a wasted effort on Epic.

PS: Would you Internet Warriors please take your phallic waving elsewhere.

no, mummies should be webbed and/or firewalled. flesh to stone is for gnolls, drow, scorp, etc. even then, mostly just for the tougher ones like casters, packmasters, and such.

[Atenhotep]

I like the bard idea with the 3 melee. Seems like your best option if 2 sorcs were overlapping spells anyways.

If the players are good the group composition is less important. I just happen to be blessed with a really great wizard and sorc in my guild who work great together. The wizard, however, was not available that day and we picked up a 2nd sorc. He's a buddy and a good player but it did duplicate too much (just as a 2nd cleric would).

For my groups I'll consider replacing the third melee with a battle bard (I got a specific guy in mind) who can do the bard sweetness as well as kick some major arse.

[gemineye]

:d

Ps: Would You Internet Warriors Please Take Your Phallic Waving Elsewhere.

Qft

[NiBB]

Hmmm... Leader of a guild and running Epic Pugs... There's somthing wrong there.

And answering a request for help with a "hahahahahahha" title? Neg rep points well deserved.

There's something wrong with proving everyone wrong when they said it'd be impossible?

Or is it wrong because I don't have a huge guild full of elitest snobs?

Hahahahahahhaha again. (x2)

We did 2 epic raid pugs the first night it was out, because it was said 'it couldnt' be done' and disproving that was ... dare I say.. fun.

That's awesome if you have a big guild that doesn't fill with pugs (or antipugs in our case), but I prefer my small guild, and don't judge you for not having to pug (or antipug).

Lollersauce seems so fitting once more!

[barecm]

I think it already did reset.. Red's run another one since.. I have just been farming the fruit loops. Lewt runnnnnnnnnnnns!

I saw an epic timer & then a normal DQ raid timer when we completed, I haven't toyed with it since though.

Kluege is sitting on 79 completions specifically for this event...

[Wizzly_Bear]

[snip]

the more cautious tips i gave (avoiding pugs and using the shrine outside) are more for while youre learning the quests or have a weaker group. theyre certainly not necessary, and theyre nto even ones i worry about anymore.

@bunker - i thought we hit 45 mins...were you counting looting time at the end in the 50?

[NiBB]

If the players are good the group composition is less important.

No doubt. Always.

For my groups I'll consider replacing the third melee with a battle bard (I got a specific guy in mind) who can do the bard sweetness as well as kick some major arse.

Yup. If you want a good WC let me know. I'd like to see a good completion team in there that works together.

[NiBB]

Kluege is sitting on 79 completions specifically for this event...

oh WOW!

Lets try to get one sorted today/tonight then.

Antipug pugs ftw, yo. Hehehe.

[Atenhotep]

Ther is nothing wrong with using tactics that were developed back in Mod1. We may have pushed them aside taking the, "kill fast kill quick" method as the #1 style, but think back to when lower level quests were tough. Start slow perfecting those old tactics and then you will be able to speed up you completions without the use of any resources. BTW, my last group I completed Wiz King Epic used no resources and we finished in 50 minutes, 8 chests including the 3 in the bottom.

Mediate on what he said.

It sums it up nicely.

Oh and feel free to rep me.

[Wizzly_Bear]

And what about jumping up on top of the coffins / collectable alchemy tables / etc.

It was an old school tactic for avoiding the nasty stuff pre-everyone-having-a-torc / conc opp.. if they don't cast nasty stuff I'm sure its still viable, even for refilling your mana if you have aggro.

But 1 cleric blading epic trash while healing melee chasing them?

I still vote noooooo thanks after doing a few of the epic raids.

you can still hop up on stuff, but dont have aggro if youre weak. even with elec/fire resist and ring of djinn/cold shield the mini bosses spells can hurt. also, for the mini bosses theres no need to do this unless the group is weak. my 1st wiz king completion we had to do this, but my latest i was all set to do it and the melees just said "eff that!" was a much better group though.

[NiBB]

If everyone is level 20, why not go out for mana instead of downing potions? Have the team DD wait at beginning.... or would that just take too long? Does a barrier come up or something?

I hear people saying they drank (dot dot dot) many potions.. which I can see for raids, or leveling.. but this is neither..

Maybe I'm just stingy I think I'd go out for mana and make people wait at the beginning after DDooring, haha.

And what about standing on top of coffins / tables / etc to avoid melee dmg? No one has mentioned that.. it still works on elite.. it should work on epic, no?

[Atenhotep]

(avoiding pugs and using the shrine outside)

He is correct - I forgot to add this - You can clear the whole first chamber then go out, use shrine, come back in, open chest and place seal .. and be on your way. Its a great way to get a free shrine.

[NiBB]

you can still hop up on stuff, but dont have aggro if youre weak. even with elec/fire resist and ring of djinn/cold shield the mini bosses spells can hurt. also, for the mini bosses theres no need to do this unless the group is weak. my 1st wiz king completion we had to do this, but my latest i was all set to do it and the melees just said "eff that!" was a much better group though.

Yeah, it was def. most popular in the boss rooms.. but there are places you can do it all over the place.. not just in boss rooms. I am curious if spamming mass heals -> getting aggro on cleric -> and instead of doing blades & running, if maybe just jumping up on top of something would make it easier to continue to heal the party & deal damage to the undead w/ the mass heals.

I should have elaborated the first time. Woops

[Bunker]

@bunker - i thought we hit 45 mins...were you counting looting time at the end in the 50?

All I knew from memory was that it was between 45-60 minutes. Saying 50 minutes seemed justified. Posting the time was not so much to say, "hey check out our time". Rather to let the groups that have done 2 hour completions thus far realize that doing it under an hour is possible and will happen for them as well as others.

[Wizzly_Bear]

How many times have you BB'd Epic Wizzie King?

That's what I thought.

Why suggest something as if its the end-all answer when you haven't even done it yourself?

For instance... You can't blade the archers. They are stationary.

Do you know what their to_hit is, or how many hpts, or how much per hit they deal you? What about their challenge rating? Hehehe.

BB is not FTW in Epic DQ, A good team is.

If everyone is level 20, why not go out for mana instead of downing potions? Have the team DD wait at beginning.... or would that just take too long? Does a barrier come up or something?

I hear people saying they drank (dot dot dot) many potions.. which I can see for raids, or leveling.. but this is neither..

Maybe I'm just stingy I think I'd go out for mana and make people wait at the beginning after DDooring, haha.

And what about standing on top of coffins / tables / etc to avoid melee dmg? No one has mentioned that.. it still works on elite.. it should work on epic, no?

im embarassed for you

[Wizzly_Bear]

All I new from memory was that it was between 45-60 minutes. Saying 50 minutes seemed justified. Posting the time was not so much to say, "hey check out our time". Rather to let the groups that have done 2 hour completions thus far realize that doing it under an hour is possible and will happen for them as well as others.

i wasnt worried about "hey check out our time", just trying to benchmark the progress so far. my 1st completion was about 90, second about 60, 3rd about the same, and then this one thought had down to 45 - thought i had halved my time was all. we'll get <45 when the servers come back up

[shinmade]

And what about jumping up on top of the coffins / collectable alchemy tables / etc.

It was an old school tactic for avoiding the nasty stuff pre-everyone-having-a-torc / conc opp.. if they don't cast nasty stuff I'm sure its still viable, even for refilling your mana if you have aggro.

But 1 cleric blading epic trash while healing melee chasing them?

I still vote noooooo thanks after doing a few of the epic raids.

Epic raid(s) ? They are all regular 6 man quests, only ADQ2 is raid as far as I know.

Sigh. I guess I stopped being on the same page as the healbot mentality a long time ago. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Atenhotep]

i wasnt worried about "hey check out our time", just trying to benchmark the progress so far. my 1st completion was about 90, second about 60, 3rd about the same, and then this one thought had down to 45 - thought i had halved my time was all. we'll get <45 when the servers come back up

45 min for Wizzy, lion and jackal?

Screenshot or it didn't happen.

[ddoer]

i've pretty much been running nothing but epic since it was released. fwiw, here's my tips and suggestions.

-web is your friend. in blood i was also using sleet storm. due to the fact that we didnt stop running i cant tell you if it worked, but it seemed to help. just dont forget to fom first.

-enervate, enervate, enervate. bring scrolls for all the mobs with no sr, bring the spell for those that do have sr. the sr is not terribly high. iirc most have somewhere in the 30s.

-flesh to stone and ottos irresistable dance

-conservation of resources. sorcs stop trying to dps kill everything, clerics stop trying to cometfall everything, et cetera. firewall/bb mass groups of enemies, not every single one enemy.

-go back to basics - kill casters first, use your terrain, use your crowd control, melee trip and sunder every chance you get (with as many swings as you get you'll be seeing them roll plenty of ones), learn the dr bypasses and use them, know what buffs you need and ask for them, et cetera.

+1 rep for the useful advice. I'm more focus on the spell parts as quoted above.

I think energy drain is one of the most useful spell. It just similar to Shavarath quests, but the mobs are even higher in CR and we need to drain them for more times *if* we definitely need to land a spell. (that i don't suggest) And if the spell is failed to land, it will still help the melees to beat the mob down. I tend to use those "mass" spells like mass hold monster/charm/suggestion and web. By probability, the spell will land on certain % of targets.

The SR of drow in OOB is around 33. (failed on 32 and success in 34)

FtS is supposed to be useful in OOB but is a bit costly in terms of SP. (and we can't use CK to drop Con/Fort save)

There are a lot of tricks for this quest.

...

1d. Don't cast Haste EXCEPT for combat. There's no reason to cast haste to get from point A to point B. Haste only causes ppl to get sloppy and sloppy = a surprise.

very useful advice too.

I don't entirely agree with the point about haste. People who go into epic is suppose to be very cautious no matter they have haste or not. besides, sometimes a fight will be started unexpectedly, and we can't gather the party for hjaste. A level 20 caster could give haste for 4 mins. It's not cheap for a epic quest that may take 1 or 2 hours, but imho worth it.

on epic, we need to use resource very carefully. It's better to assign a dedicated caster to cast haste, so when a melee ask "hjaste me", he won't get multiple haste. The same rule apply to any buff and aoe like fw.



I especially like the points about back to basic. For caster, it means we use will save spell against melees and fort/reflex save spells against casters.

[ScabWound]

I went in this one on my barbarian (Chaotic Good)
I found the best weaps to use on the undead were not my greater undead bane or my holy burst of pure good, but my chaotic aligned weapons, they were able to blow through the lawful alignment of the undead allowing me to deliver more damage after I nailed them with a greater destruction great axe. My greenstaeel was all but worthless on everything but the djinn's and the gnolls and even then was wearing breastplate of destruction and started off with greater destruction greataxe.

Hoo Haa, I do enjoy these epic quests, a challenge and forces the team to work together limiting zerging.

What up yo! See you all in game