EPIC Wiz KIng Suggestions

[iraiqat316]

Ok Did an EPIC Wiz King las Night. Tough as they come I must say. As The Cleric of the group I used approximately 15 Mana Pots and 3 Eladrin Shrines. I happened to be with a Good Group of Joes it was just a bit Pricey to be the CLeric trying to Farm EPIC tokens, etc. Any suggestions on this quest or how to make it less expensive next time?

[pumagirl418]

Ok Did an EPIC Wiz King las Night. Tough as they come I must say. As The Cleric of the group I used approximately 15 Mana Pots and 3 Eladrin Shrines. I happened to be with a Good Group of Joes it was just a bit Pricey to be the CLeric trying to Farm EPIC tokens, etc. Any suggestions on this quest or how to make it less expensive next time?

all high lvl 'hard' quests are expensive until you get players who learn them. kudos for giving it a go. i'm still scared to take either of my clerics out there.

[sirgog]

Ok Did an EPIC Wiz King las Night. Tough as they come I must say. As The Cleric of the group I used approximately 15 Mana Pots and 3 Eladrin Shrines. I happened to be with a Good Group of Joes it was just a bit Pricey to be the CLeric trying to Farm EPIC tokens, etc. Any suggestions on this quest or how to make it less expensive next time?

My first run was about that expensive. And we wiped on Raiyum too.

My second: ~100 Heal scrolls only, simply due to having a more solid group.

For Epic quests, you really need one (or both) of extreme melee DPS or a second healer (preferably one that can melee as well).

[Original]

I think there needs to be 2 clerics or a cleric and a bard.
I was the only healer in my epic wiz-king atempt.
I went thru 20 mana pots and 200scrolls and we didnt even get one chest - but it was a pug.
Major DPS is needed for epic so pugging was a bad choice for me.

[iraiqat316]

Yes The group I was in was "assembled" a 2nd Healer will certainly share the expenses.

[Quikster]

I think there needs to be 2 clerics or a cleric and a bard.
I was the only healer in my epic wiz-king atempt.
I went thru 20 mana pots and 200scrolls and we didnt even get one chest - but it was a pug.
Major DPS is needed for epic so pugging was a bad choice for me.

I gotta agree here. Dont make an epic group with the same melees that take 3-4 rounds beating down harry in pt 4. Your just asking for trouble.

[Cyr]

We did a run of this Saturday night that was relatively painless, but long. A few mana pots used, but not many and we completed. Chains seems to be faster, but more costly. You can not just throw together groups for epic though. You need the right mix and at least decent players otherwise it is just too much for resources. As for gimp melee yeah that is a no go here. Also make sure people are using the right combinations of weapons. If you don't hear any chatter about what sets people are using before you start up epic then it might be painful.

[Wizzly_Bear]

i've pretty much been running nothing but epic since it was released. fwiw, here's my tips and suggestions.

-dont pug

-bring a bard. they can be a backup healer, sing songs for better + to hit and damage, fascinate, and help melee

-only bring people who know what theyre doing. it is "epic" after all. yes you can make it with pileons, but it just becomes more expensive

-fight as little face to face as possible. use your terrain when its available, and find some when its not.

-web is your friend. in blood i was also using sleet storm. due to the fact that we didnt stop running i cant tell you if it worked, but it seemed to help. just dont forget to fom first.

-you can clear parts of wiz king and chains before you get locked in - do so, max buffs, go out and shrine, then start. its like getting a free shrine.

-for wiz king - get the tokens out of the side quests so you have 2 less battles

-for wiz king - do all 3 sides. no point in only killing the king and missing out on all the loot in the bottom

-enervate, enervate, enervate. bring scrolls for all the mobs with no sr, bring the spell for those that do have sr. the sr is not terribly high. iirc most have somewhere in the 30s.

-flesh to stone and ottos irresistable dance

-conservation of resources. sorcs stop trying to dps kill everything, clerics stop trying to cometfall everything, et cetera. firewall/bb mass groups of enemies, not every single one enemy.

-make sure you save some power surges, sps, rages, smites, et cetera for the boss and mini boss fights. they are much tougher than the trash.

-go back to basics - kill casters first, use your terrain, use your crowd control, melee trip and sunder every chance you get (with as many swings as you get you'll be seeing them roll plenty of ones), learn the dr bypasses and use them, know what buffs you need and ask for them, et cetera.

play smart and you'll get lots of vendor trash, a few seals, some tokens, and a couple scrolls and may even have a little fun with the new challenge.

[sirgog]

Comments in green

{QUOTE=Wizzly_Bear}i've pretty much been running nothing but epic since it was released. fwiw, here's my tips and suggestions.

-dont pug

PUGging is OK if you have a solid core to your group and the PUGs know what they are doing. Ask some questions about the build/gear of anyone that wants to join - e.g. ask them 'what are you using to beat on the mummies' in Wiz-King - if they say 'an Incineration maul but Min 2 for everything else' take them, if they say 'dual vorpals' then don't take them

-bring a bard. they can be a backup healer, sing songs for better + to hit and damage, fascinate, and help melee

A bard is worth a party slot even if they do nothing but sing Warchanter songs with Inspired Attack 3, this adds about 50% to each melee's DPS output from the extra +6 to hit over just having GH. Anything else they do is a bonus. That said, they are all doable without a bard - just harder.

-only bring people who know what theyre doing. it is "epic" after all. yes you can make it with pileons, but it just becomes more expensive

Carrying one or two mediocre players that listen and do their best through epics isn't too bad. Get more than that, however, and it's horrible.

-fight as little face to face as possible. use your terrain when its available, and find some when its not.

-web is your friend. in blood i was also using sleet storm. due to the fact that we didnt stop running i cant tell you if it worked, but it seemed to help. just dont forget to fom first.

CC of many types works wonders.

-you can clear parts of wiz king and chains before you get locked in - do so, max buffs, go out and shrine, then start. its like getting a free shrine.

This is a crutch - a group that needs to do this probably isn't the sort of group you want to run with if you can help it

-for wiz king - get the tokens out of the side quests so you have 2 less battles

Not important, those fights are pathetically easy.

-for wiz king - do all 3 sides. no point in only killing the king and missing out on all the loot in the bottom

Agreed. Shards and Epic Tokens drop there.

-enervate, enervate, enervate. bring scrolls for all the mobs with no sr, bring the spell for those that do have sr. the sr is not terribly high. iirc most have somewhere in the 30s.

-flesh to stone and ottos irresistable dance

Solid advice, especially the dance.

-conservation of resources. sorcs stop trying to dps kill everything, clerics stop trying to cometfall everything, et cetera. firewall/bb mass groups of enemies, not every single one enemy.

If you can handle the aggro, go ahead and firewall packs. I'm less impressed with bladebarrier in Epic - the mobs have too many HP to quickly kill, and most pulls that are tough enough to consider doing this on have some mobs doing nasty things to you from range. Conservation, however, is excellent advice.

-make sure you save some power surges, sps, rages, smites, et cetera for the boss and mini boss fights. they are much tougher than the trash.

Yep. And don't be afraid to wait for things that recover over time like smites and death penalties before engaging minibosses and bosses.

-go back to basics - kill casters first, use your terrain, use your crowd control, melee trip and sunder every chance you get (with as many swings as you get you'll be seeing them roll plenty of ones), learn the dr bypasses and use them, know what buffs you need and ask for them, et cetera.

play smart and you'll get lots of vendor trash, a few seals, some tokens, and a couple scrolls and may even have a little fun with the new challenge.

Exactly. Be *careful*, take things slowly, and enjoy some challenges.


The main point I'd make is - come up with a strategy, and all use it. If everyone is trying to melee straight-up, this works. If everyone is trying to stun mobs, then everyone jumps on the first one stunned, that works well too. If one person threat tanks or intimitanks while others attack - that works. What causes mess is when one person runs in all guns blazing, another intimitanks and the third stuns the mob the intimitank had aggro on, runs and aggros the one that they failed the Intim on, and then the wizard Firewalls a mob that's around a different corner then says 'oh ****, thought you went that way'

[Wizzly_Bear]

[snip]

the more cautious tips i gave (avoiding pugs and using the shrine outside) are more for while youre learning the quests or have a weaker group. theyre certainly not necessary, and theyre nto even ones i worry about anymore.

@bunker - i thought we hit 45 mins...were you counting looting time at the end in the 50?

[ddoer]

-you can clear parts of wiz king and chains before you get locked in - do so, max buffs, go out and shrine, then start. its like getting a free shrine.

This is a crutch - a group that needs to do this probably isn't the sort of group you want to run with if you can help it

If everyone is level 20, why not go out for mana instead of downing potions? Have the team DD wait at beginning.... or would that just take too long? Does a barrier come up or something?

He is correct - I forgot to add this - You can clear the whole first chamber then go out, use shrine, come back in, open chest and place seal .. and be on your way. Its a great way to get a free shrine.

i say it is simply stupid if you DON'T go out for mana right before the blue shield is up. The parties who try epic are probably consisted of some of the best players and toons and many (if not most) of them still need to use a lot of resources/mana pots.

[Atenhotep]

I think there needs to be 2 clerics or a cleric and a bard.
I was the only healer in my epic wiz-king atempt.
I went thru 20 mana pots and 200scrolls and we didnt even get one chest - but it was a pug.
Major DPS is needed for epic so pugging was a bad choice for me.

NOPE. The only groups who NEED 2 clerics are the groups who have 2 clerics.

Understand that circular logic?

I am solo cleric and I havent died once on epic.

Just be smart and take it slow and careful.

Epic Wiz King

[Atenhotep]

BTW - I succeeded on my first Epic Wiz King Run. (and first chains)

Did Wiz King Epic on Saturday then did Epic Chains on Sunday.

Chains was far easier.

My group composition was:

Wiz King- Cleric (me), a High DPS Tank (barb type), a ranger AC build, a Monk (the monk was destructing enemies to reduce AC), and 2 casters (both were pure sorcs but they ended up duplicating some powers so I wont do that again, next will be the sorc and wizard from my chains run.)

Chains - Cleric (me), a High DPS tank, 2 support types (I had a ranger and a Monk but you could fill with any combination, maybe a favored soul or maybe a bard), and 2 casters. One was a pure sorc and the other a WF wizard/rogue who was able to take down the traps).

In any case 2 clerics are used in raids .. even Shroud is solo clericed so no .. dont bring 2 clerics .. just bring brains and solid leadership.

[NiBB]

BTW - I succeeded on my first Epic Wiz King Run.

Did Wiz King Epic on Saturday then did Epic Chains on Sunday.

Chains was far easier.

My group composition was:

Wiz King- Cleric (me), a High DPS Tank (barb type), a ranger AC build, a Monk (the monk was destructing enemies to reduce AC), and 2 casters (both were pure sorcs but they ended up duplicating some powers so I wont do that again, next will be the sorc and wizard from my chains run.)

Chains - Cleric (me), a High DPS tank, 2 support types (I had a ranger and a Monk but you could fill with any combination, maybe a favored soul or maybe a bard), and 2 casters. One was a pure sorc and the other a WF wizard/rogue who was able to take down the traps).

In any case 2 clerics are used in raids .. even Shroud is solo clericed so no .. dont bring 2 clerics .. just bring brains and solid leadership.

I like the bard idea with the 3 melee. Seems like your best option if 2 sorcs were overlapping spells anyways.

[ddoer]

i've pretty much been running nothing but epic since it was released. fwiw, here's my tips and suggestions.

-web is your friend. in blood i was also using sleet storm. due to the fact that we didnt stop running i cant tell you if it worked, but it seemed to help. just dont forget to fom first.

-enervate, enervate, enervate. bring scrolls for all the mobs with no sr, bring the spell for those that do have sr. the sr is not terribly high. iirc most have somewhere in the 30s.

-flesh to stone and ottos irresistable dance

-conservation of resources. sorcs stop trying to dps kill everything, clerics stop trying to cometfall everything, et cetera. firewall/bb mass groups of enemies, not every single one enemy.

-go back to basics - kill casters first, use your terrain, use your crowd control, melee trip and sunder every chance you get (with as many swings as you get you'll be seeing them roll plenty of ones), learn the dr bypasses and use them, know what buffs you need and ask for them, et cetera.

+1 rep for the useful advice. I'm more focus on the spell parts as quoted above.

I think energy drain is one of the most useful spell. It just similar to Shavarath quests, but the mobs are even higher in CR and we need to drain them for more times *if* we definitely need to land a spell. (that i don't suggest) And if the spell is failed to land, it will still help the melees to beat the mob down. I tend to use those "mass" spells like mass hold monster/charm/suggestion and web. By probability, the spell will land on certain % of targets.

The SR of drow in OOB is around 33. (failed on 32 and success in 34)

FtS is supposed to be useful in OOB but is a bit costly in terms of SP. (and we can't use CK to drop Con/Fort save)

There are a lot of tricks for this quest.

...

1d. Don't cast Haste EXCEPT for combat. There's no reason to cast haste to get from point A to point B. Haste only causes ppl to get sloppy and sloppy = a surprise.

very useful advice too.

I don't entirely agree with the point about haste. People who go into epic is suppose to be very cautious no matter they have haste or not. besides, sometimes a fight will be started unexpectedly, and we can't gather the party for hjaste. A level 20 caster could give haste for 4 mins. It's not cheap for a epic quest that may take 1 or 2 hours, but imho worth it.

on epic, we need to use resource very carefully. It's better to assign a dedicated caster to cast haste, so when a melee ask "hjaste me", he won't get multiple haste. The same rule apply to any buff and aoe like fw.



I especially like the points about back to basic. For caster, it means we use will save spell against melees and fort/reflex save spells against casters.

[Wizzly_Bear]

45 min for Wizzy, lion and jackal?

Screenshot or it didn't happen.

i no longer take the completion so you wont get a ss from me, unless they change the looting. there's usually someone who takes the completion in group though so maybe they'll post it up.

+1 rep for the useful advice. I'm more focus on the spell parts as quoted above.

I think energy drain is one of the most useful spell. It just similar to Shavarath quests, but the mobs are even higher in CR and we need to drain them for more times *if* we definitely need to land a spell. (that i don't suggest) And if the spell is failed to land, it will still help the melees to beat the mob down. I tend to use those "mass" spells like mass hold monster/charm/suggestion and web. By probability, the spell will land on certain % of targets.

if you *need* to land a spell, land irresistable dance - no save. i usually dance, enervate scroll, enervate, enervate scroll, fts if its one of the more dangerous mobs. otherwise just dance if theyre not ones im going to firewall.

also, ive found that mass charm and suggest are broken, or something, i dont know. 1st time in chains i was casting mass charm, but they would always break a few seconds later (much sooner than their save timer) so i switched to mass suggestion, but they would still break a few seconds (rather than 4 minutes) later.

FtS is supposed to be useful in OOB but is a bit costly in terms of SP. (and we can't use CK to drop Con/Fort save)

you can use ck. they are not immune to stat damage, just resistant. its not efficient though unless you have a mass group and youre cooking/slicing them up.

I especially like the points about back to basic. For caster, it means we use will save spell against melees and fort/reflex save spells against casters.

another good point i forgot to mention.

-know your enemies and comrades strengths and weaknesses

-act on the above in accordance with the above

[shinmade]

Ok Did an EPIC Wiz King las Night. Tough as they come I must say. As The Cleric of the group I used approximately 15 Mana Pots and 3 Eladrin Shrines. I happened to be with a Good Group of Joes it was just a bit Pricey to be the CLeric trying to Farm EPIC tokens, etc. Any suggestions on this quest or how to make it less expensive next time?

best defense is OFFENSE

BB's FTW, let the melee peel them off you.

[NiBB]

best defense is OFFENSE

BB's FTW, let the melee peel them off you.

How many times have you BB'd Epic Wizzie King?

That's what I thought.

Why suggest something as if its the end-all answer when you haven't even done it yourself?

For instance... You can't blade the archers. They are stationary.

Do you know what their to_hit is, or how many hpts, or how much per hit they deal you? What about their challenge rating? Hehehe.

BB is not FTW in Epic DQ, A good team is.

[Wizzly_Bear]

For instance... You can't blade the archers. They are stationary.

you should just leave the archers. theyre barely a nuisance and cant follow you. its a waste of time and resources to kill them.

BB is not FTW in Epic DQ, A good team is.

actually, kiting mass groups through a fw/bb combo is a very effective way to kill a lot of trash all at once. you are right that it isnt very effective in wiz-king, but in blood its the bees knees.

[NiBB]

I could see it in blood for sure.

I think I'd have to vote WOF for the undead, though.