Punch-a-potamus, a hate tank

[cforce]

As a prereq to reading this build, you're going to have to go read "The Hate Monster" (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=190763). My goal here is to see if I can make an unarmed variant of the Hate Monster build that performs nearly as well or better against the key build goals of the Hate Monster. To reiterate, here were the main Hate Monster goals:

BUILD GOALS (note that some of these are exceeded by the example build below):
- Able to hold aggro reliably from hate against any build that is not trying to hold aggro
- Full time DR 7 to significantly mitigate Annoying Bee Sting damage in Mod 9
- Evasion
- By level 16 (just because I know the targets for that), AC of 60 "easily" (i.e. standard buffs and no rare equipment); 80 feasible. These targets would have been 65 and 85 before, so I am counting on the rumored reduction in to-hit that is paired with Grazing Blows.
- By level 16, saves of 25/30/25 with pretty standard equip/buffs

Nice to have:
- Able to "fake it" as a DPS build when holding aggro is not required
- Able to use a Tower Shield passably if turtling up for max DR becomes a good idea
- WF immunities
- Cure Wand use

Also note that the Hate Generation bonuses are reported to be not working as intended, so this is all academic until those are actually *fixed*!!! (Although this build maintains enough Intimidate to reasonably intimitank in the meantime while they're getting it fixed.)

I'm going to explicitly assume the +3 tomes and other "uber gear" (exceptional stat items, etc) that the Hate Moster did up-front. (Hate Monster doesn't list them in the original stat listing, but does give a "with uber gear breakout" later in the thread in AC calcs, save calcs, etc.

Punch-a-potamus
WF Stalwart Defender 18/Monk 2

STR 16 [10] + 3 Tome + 3 fighter + 1 levels + 6 item + 4 stance +1 exceptional = 34
DEX 16 [10] + 3 Tome + 1 exceptional + +4 levels + 6 item [+2 Wind Stance] = 30/32
CON 11 [1] + 3 Tome + 2 wf + 6 item + 4 stance [+2 Earth Stance] = 26/28
WIS 13 [8] + 3 Tome + 1 exceptional + 1 Monk + 6 item = 24
INT 11 [3] + 2 Tome = 13
CHA 6 [0]

With the unarmed variant, we can also use stances here. I'm going to assume Wind Stance I most of the time, at the expense of hit points, *except* when talking about end-game raid boss tanking where the hit point buffer trumps the AC help. Note that I actually put level-ups into DEX rather than STR, as the Hate Monster did. I *think* I can hit higher DPS with the rings even with a net -4 STR, and the extra AC and reflex save are both desirable.

Note that I'm not assuming +3 exceptional bonuses; we'll generally want damage crafted into the rings, and there's no other good place to get the +2 exceptional bonus that I know of for unarmed.

Feats (7 base + 2 MBF + 10 FBF = 19):
FBF: Dodge, TWF, iTWF, gTWF, Focus:Bludgeon, Spec:Bludgeon, Greater Spec:Bludgeon, PA, CE, iCrit
Monk: Toughness, Lightning Reflexes
Base: DRx5, Luck of Heroes, SF: UMD

Skills: Intimidate, Balance maxed, UMD at half-ranks, extra points from Monk levels in Jump.

Enhancements through 20
6: Warforged Damage Reduction II
2: Monk Wis I
1: Monk wind Stance I
1: Monk Earth Stance I
1: Monk Fire Stance I
1: Monk Way of the Tenacious Badger I
6: Fighter Haste Boost III
6: WF Power Attack III
12: Fighter STR III
3: Fighter Intim II
6: Fighter AC Boost III
2: Fighter Item Defense II
6: Fighter Toughness III
8: Fighter Stalwart Defender III
2: WF Healer's Friend I
6: WF Con II
3: Fighter Unarmed Spec II
6: WF Toughness III
(2 unallocated)

(Note for Thanimal: I notice you gave a nod to Wind Stance in the Hate Monster post, but didn't actually spend an enhancement on it in your enhancement list. I'm going to make comparisons as if you'd swapped Ranger Sprint Boost I for Wind Stance I.)

AC at 20
10 base
9 DT docent
1 alchemical
11 dex (in wind stance)
7 wis
5 CE
5 deflection
3 Stalwart Defender
4 SD Stance
1 Dodge
1 Centered
2 Chaosguarde
4 Insight (DT docent)
3 Dodge (ouch...losing a ring slot to AC, here.)
--------------
66 beholder-proof (HM 67 here)

Self-buffed
4 Shield
3 Bark
1 Haste
---------
74 self-buffed (HM 73 here)

Full raid
5 Pally
2 Ranger
2 Cleric
4 Bard
---------
87 (HM 86 here)

Dangit. When doing apples-to-apples comparisons, I have a slotting problem between the chattering ring, the stat rings, and the Insight. (sigh) Looks like this guy has to have different equipment loadouts for different purposes: unarmed for DPS, and kamas for AC.

So, I guess the "AC" loadout is:
+3 Dodge (DT Docent)
+4 Insight (kama)
+2 stats (+2 exceptional DEX & WIS on rings)
----------
89 (HM 86)

Saves @20
Fighter 18: 11/6/6
Monk 2: 3/3/3
Resist: 5/5/5
GH: 4/4/4
Stance: 3/3/3
Luck: 2/2/2
Attributes: 7/11/7 (in wind stance)
Crafting: 1/1/1
Feats: 1/3/1
---------------
37/38/32 (HM 37/36/32 here)

Note that this is *without* wearing the "tanking ring" configuration for the +2 exceptional dex and wis.

Hit Points@20
20 base
23 Toughness
60 Toughness enhancements
180 CON
180 Fighter (473)
16 Monk
30 GFL
20 Minos Hat (added 8/12/09)
10 Draconic
45 shroud
------
561 unbuffed (HM 502 here)

This is obviously the "big win" vs. the Hate Monster -- some comes from fighter levels, some comes from having a lot of action points freed up for more toughness enhancements. Speaking of enhancements:

Intimidate score optimally equipped at level 20:
23 ranks
+15 item
+3 CHA (6 base + 6 item + 4 Tome = 16)
+6 Shroud CHA skilz item
+4 GH
+2 luck (head)
+9 enhancements (vs. HM +6)
+2 Bard Song (hopefully available if tanking the game's hardest raid on Elite!)
---
64 (HM 61 here)

On the occasions where intimidate is useful over Hate Generation, this guy has the edge -- the difference comes from more flexibility with the Action Point allocation.

I'm going to summarize the DPS/Hate Gen calcs, rather than posting the full math. This is all stuff that be cross-checked once I've got a "final" version of the attack speed estimator.

As far as Hate generation goes, +200% *should* trivially generate more hate than any pure DPS build, but just to give a few numbers: in the worst case, against a 0-fort opponent (unarmed is realtivley better vs. heavy fort and worse vs. no fort compared to armed DPS builds, generally), while in CE stance, this would project to ~700/hps (hate per second) with Min II Kamas. Given that I haven't been able to find anything, assuming the easiest trash mobs and the highest-DPS shroud items, that get much above the low 500's in *actual* DPS, I think this is trivially "enough".

What about actual DPS gen? I'm going to look at a few different scenarios:
- AC tanking vs. HP tanking/DPS mode
- Undead/Evil-Outsiders vs. non-FE
- 0 fort vs. 100 fort
- Transmuting needed/not needed

...and now assume the optimal end-game equipment for both. Did the calculations out with a DPS spreadsheet -- won't bother posting the full math here, just the results.

Punchapotamus does more DPS when:
- DPS mode/HP tanking, all scenarios except FE+0% fort+Tranmuting required, where its a virtual tie. As long as Punchapotamus gets to use the uber 3-blast+Greater Bane ring/handwrap combo, combined with faster swing speed, it wins by a small margin in no-fort, FE scenario, and widens in the others.

Hate Monster does more DPS when:
- AC mode, all scenarios

So, Punch-a-potamus almost always deals more damage when *trying* to do more DPS, or when AC doesn't matter. Of course, the exception, FE:Evil Outsider+0% Fort+Transmuting required covers a *lot* of trash devils.
In AC tank mode, while Punchapotamus generates more hate, the Hate Monster deals more damage.

So, this ends up a little different, and I *think* better, than the Hate Monster: higher top-end AC when trying to max AC, and higher DPS when trying to max DPS -- with more hit points, higher Intimidate, and better saves. On the down side, the end-game uber-loot requirements are *much* higher... you essentially need different equipment loadouts on both, and have to grind Dragontouched for the +3 Dodge bonus. So, it's not necessarily a build for a casual player. (Like, for example, me.)

[Thanimal]

Well, certainly this build is pretty awesome. But of course I have some comments and questions!

As a prereq to reading this build, you're going to have to go read "The Hate Monster" (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=190763).

Wow! That thread is awesome!

Note that I actually put level-ups into DEX rather than STR, as the Hate Monster did. I *think* I can hit higher DPS with the rings even with a net -4 STR, and the extra AC and reflex save are both desirable.

Well that certainly comes as a surprise, and may be a key insight on your part. The to-hit disadvantage is canceled by the relative +4 of unarmed.

6: Fighter Toughness IV

That would cost 10 points. But only -10 HP compared to what you posted -- no big deal.

(Note for Thanimal: I notice you gave a nod to Wind Stance in the Hate Monster post, but didn't actually spend an enhancement on it in your enhancement list. I'm going to make comparisons as if you'd swapped Ranger Sprint Boost I for Wind Stance I.)

By end-game, WF Brute Fighting appears to be unneeded, so 6 APs free up for a level 20 respec. Wind Stance I thus fits pretty easily. My original post was mainly talking about 16 levels (how quaint), but I confused the issues by listing APs through 20, but only barely mentioning the respec somewhere else.

Dangit. When doing apples-to-apples comparisons, I have a slotting problem between the chattering ring, the stat rings, and the Insight. (sigh) Looks like this guy has to have different equipment loadouts for different purposes: unarmed for DPS, and kamas for AC.

To me, this is of great importance.

Hit Points@20
20 base
46 Toughness
70 Toughness enhancements
180 CON
180 Fighter (473)
16 Monk
30 GFL
20 Minos Hat (added 8/12/09)
10 Draconic
45 shroud
------
584 unbuffed (HM 502 here)

This is indeed very nice (even though its really 574), but I actually think the optimal 12/6/2 build is going to be roughly equivalent here. At the time of my original post, 500 hp was thought to be enough for anything, and now it clearly isn't. However, getting to this point may give up something else important.

Punchapotamus does more DPS when:
- DPS mode/HP tanking, all scenarios except FE+0% fort+Tranmuting required, where its a virtual tie. As long as Punchapotamus gets to use the uber 3-blast+Greater Bane ring/handwrap combo, combined with faster swing speed, it wins by a small margin in no-fort, FE scenario, and widens in the others.

Hate Monster does more DPS when:
- AC mode, all scenarios

Hm. When I look at this I see a clear win for HM. I plan to be in AC mode at least 90% of the time, so dealing more DPS out of that configuration seems more important than having a small DPS mode advantage most of the time and a large one very rarely.

Also, isn't there getting to be a lot of non-bypassable DR in the world these days? Perhaps I have misunderstood some posts on the "new" end-game, but it seems to me that TWF Khopesh may still have a place in the world because DR disproportionately impacts unarmed.

So, this ends up a little different, and I *think* better, than the Hate Monster: higher top-end AC when trying to max AC, and higher DPS when trying to max DPS -- with more hit points, higher Intimidate, and better saves.

VERY, VERY nice, but this goes back to being modal, which to me feels much less broken. After all, Dwarven Fighters have been able to do either S&B tank mode or TWF DPS mode for a long time. (Of course, Punchopotamus seems to beat that Dwarven tank on BOTH metrics and crush it on nice-to-haves.) What makes my jaw drop on HM is how much DPS he can get while in full-on tank mode.

Finally, I still don't really see any "reason" that 18/2 has more DPS, other than what appears to be the accidental brokenness of unarmed damage with the new rings. I can't see why 12/6/2 going unarmed with rings isn't better.

[cforce]

That would cost 10 points. But only -10 HP compared to what you posted -- no big deal.

....

This is indeed very nice (even though its really 574), but I actually think the optimal 12/6/2 build is going to be roughly equivalent here. At the time of my original post, 500 hp was thought to be enough for anything, and now it clearly isn't. However, getting to this point may give up something else important.

Yep -- as you might have guessed, I was switching things back and forth a bit. But actually, the 584 is correct. I updated the AP cost and the hit point total, but forgot to update the roman numeral and hit point line item. (Fixed now, obviously.)

Hm. When I look at this I see a clear win for HM. I plan to be in AC mode at least 90% of the time, so dealing more DPS out of that configuration seems more important than having a small DPS mode advantage most of the time and a large one very rarely.

Fair enough -- I think that's really the main difference of opinion, here. I guess the main question in my mind is: do those 3 points of AC matter? That's the main "to be seen" of the Hate Monster, in my opinion; is the high-end AC "enough"? As you know, I do tend to be risk-averse when it comes to AC on a tank build... perhaps that's a result of trying for to long to make my old S&B tank relevant in a Monk-splash world .

Finally, I still don't really see any "reason" that 18/2 has more DPS, other than what appears to be the accidental brokenness of unarmed damage with the new rings. I can't see why 12/6/2 going unarmed with rings isn't better.

Yeah, I didn't try to go to much into the detail of why the damage differential is there, but it's mostly using unarmed instead of Khopesh. That being said, the hard part is going to be deciding which of the feat that this guys takes that the Hate Monster would not -- it ends up on short. SF: UMD? If you're going unarmed, you no longer get the Tempest shield bonus, and now *really* want to be able to use a 10-min shield wand. Is needing a laundry list of uber-loot to get to a 50% UMD rate enough? Alternately, maybe the Hate Monster would drop a Weapon Spec?

And, would you be comfortable going 6 levels of Ranger, sometimes being actually *in* dual-kama stance, and *not* having Tempest? If not, the question becomes which 3 feats would you skip?

[Thanimal]

Yeah, I didn't try to go to much into the detail of why the damage differential is there, but it's mostly using unarmed instead of Khopesh.

(Repeating some stuff I've said offline for others benefit.) If this is correct, then it signals a significant problem that Turbine will have to fix -- perhaps even "emergency fix." Your build has no special synergy with unarmed, while HM has both Tempest and Khopesh. And HM has non-trivially more STR and favored enemies. If unarmed STILL comes out ahead, all of this combines to mean that unarmed is radically over-powered: it will be hard to find any builds that don't do more DPS unarmed (if they can legally splash Monk -- more bad news for Barbarians).

I'm not normally one to say "I'll just wait for them to fix this," but in this case I'm going to! (And if they never fix it I'll just wreck everything with my Hammer instead.) Basically what you've done here is give up multiple DPS feats and enhancements and STR points and then come out ahead just by switching to unarmed with rings. That "clearly" cannot be allowed to be the way DDO works.

I can therefore CLEARLY not choose the build in front of you!

[FauxSho]

I can therefore CLEARLY not choose the build in front of you!

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

CON 11 [1] + 3 Tome + 2 wf + 6 item + 4 stance [+2 Earth Stance] = 26/28

Great build, just one thing. EDIT: It should list 24/28, as in windstance you get -2.

EDIT2: Also, under the health breakdown you have 2 toughness feats, but under feats you only have 1.

[abull74]

You know, I can't, for the life of me, figure out why people splash 2 lvls of monk, and then run around fighting unarmed? I mean, seriously? 1d6 damg is ok with you guys/gals?

LVL 20 monk = 2d10

Heck at least go lvl 4 and get the 1d8 damg.....


I AM THE FPOON!!!

[zealous]

You know, I can't, for the life of me, figure out why people splash 2 lvls of monk, and then run around fighting unarmed? I mean, seriously? 1d6 damg is ok with you guys/gals?

wraps + rings are that overpowered.

LVL 20 monk = 2d10

Heck at least go lvl 4 and get the 1d8 damg.....


I AM THE FPOON!!!

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...3&postcount=74
You gain more base damage by going fighter, you also gain more tohit.

The gain from monk levels is the elemental strikes, not the base damage.

Currently it's a tradeoff between dps + monk thingies and dps + fighter thingies (i.e. hate/intim/tohit).(disregarding AP/stat requirements)

Not much "room" for dps improvement for the monk PrCs. I.e. if monk get's more than a extremely minor buff dps from PrCs it could potentially "gimp" every non-monk dps build in the entire game.

[Thanimal]

You know, I can't, for the life of me, figure out why people splash 2 lvls of monk, and then run around fighting unarmed?

While the answer to this question has already been given, it happens that I've been considering whether this particular build might net better to go with 6 level of Monk.

This drops 1 feat, but that's easy: SF:UMD can go because now we have room for a Rogue level (or two if so desired) to make UMD a full ranks skill.

Meanwhile, unarmed DPS rises significantly, saves improve non-trivially (or we could equalize and trade save feats for Toughness feats to come out ahead on HP), and AC is at least as good (lose 2 from Stalwart III, gain 2 from Monk 5 bonus and a total of +2 dex from Rogue 2 and Wind Stance II). The extra point of Monk WIS could become another point of AC, depending on where WIS lands. When not in the Stalwart stance, AC is 2 points better.

Equally importantly, full UMD means 10-minute shields are no problem, and in general UMD is a pretty huge asset for tanking. THIS might make me say "yep, this is just better than Hate Monster," because huge UMD is the one thing HM can't achieve that would be AWFULLY nice for the intended role.

In fact, a few famous forumites were speculating that HM had all the characteristics to be "the Mod 9 build" *except* that its UMD potential was very limited. And that's not minor -- UMD is ridiculous in this game. Would this Stalwart II/Monk 6/Rogue 2 build hit "all" the checkmarks??

EDIT: I should note that action points would be hit by this change, though. Those last 6 levels of Fighter are really only "using" 7 action points. I think: 2 for Stalwart III, 3 for prereqs, and 2 for further specialization enhancement. My new idea would demand 2 x 4 level II ki strikes, 4 for Monk WIS II [theoretically optional], and 2 for Rogue DEX I, or 14. Even with 2 points unallocated in the OP, this could require some aggressive cuts. Still, unless I'm forgetting something this build direction is sounding insane: Ridiculous combination of DPS, AC, and saves; end-game worthy Intim; enough HP for turtling tanking (600 seems plausible with the over-abundance of feats that can become Toughness); enough UMD for self-Reconstruct (and tons of other goodness).

[Thanimal]

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Best ... first ... post ... ever!

Here's some rep to get you started.

[phreek]

Just a little modification here, that I've noticed also has been miscalculated on Thanimal's HM thread.

Intimidate score optimally equipped at level 20:
23 ranks
+15 item
+3 CHA (6 base + 6 item + 4 Tome = 16)
+6 Shroud CHA skilz item
+4 GH
+2 luck (head)
+9 enhancements (vs. HM +6)
+2 Bard Song (hopefully available if tanking the game's hardest raid on Elite!)
---
74 (HM 71 here)

After calculating these numbers a few times, you should end up at 64?

23 + 15 = 38
+3 CHA = 41
+6 Shroud = 47
+4 GH = 51
+2 Luck = 53
+ 9 enhancment = 62
+ 2 bard song = 64

Where did the extra 10 come from?

Also, even though you haven't posted your gear list, you could basically get another +2 AC ahead of the HM build by taking advantage of the Stalwart Defender set. Stalwart Necklace & Cinder's Band.

Also another great bonus for those that go along with the third fighter PrE.

[Aerendil]

Any chance you can crunch the numbers using a slightly reverse setup of 18 Monk / 1 Rogue / 1 Ranger?
1 Rogue = haste clicky, UMD (shield/stoneskin/etc.), d6+3 SA dmg (which, as a Monk tank, you can apply while tanking), intimidate skill access
1 Ranger = +1 BAB, +3 AC/dmg vs. 1 FE (evil outsiders?), sprint boost clicky, energy resistance clicky, no UMD for heal wands

18 Monk will give you your GM stances + 2d20 ki strikes, which is *huge*, plus a relatively robust fist damage (2d8).
You also get up to tier IV animal stances (badger or tortoise seem good for tanking) and a strong enough healing ki finisher that you can be throwing out 100hp AoE heals every 30sec or so.

And you'll have similar AC (what you lose from Stalwart 3, you gain from Monk-Centered.)

Just curious.

[Missing_Minds]

Op, I've got no comments for the build. But I do love the name you gave it.

[Thanimal]

Any chance you can crunch the numbers using a slightly reverse setup of 18 Monk / 1 Rogue / 1 Ranger?
...
And you'll have similar AC (what you lose from Stalwart 3, you gain from Monk-Centered.)

How would you hold aggro on this build? While you do officially have Intimidate as a class skill, I don't see how you can get it high enough. And there no hate-increasing option here, so I see no hope of holding aggro via DPS/Hate.

I have no doubt a Monk can achieve awesome defenses (better than most tanks), but it takes more than that to compete with the overall tanking package of Stalwart or Syberis.

[Aerendil]

How would you hold aggro on this build? While you do officially have Intimidate as a class skill, I don't see how you can get it high enough. And there no hate-increasing option here, so I see no hope of holding aggro via DPS/Hate.

I have no doubt a Monk can achieve awesome defenses (better than most tanks), but it takes more than that to compete with the overall tanking package of Stalwart or Syberis.

Yeah, that's the only possible kicker, but if you go WF you could always rely on Intimidate + warforged brute tactics + spamming 2d20 ki strikes (which is reasonable dps).
That should be enough, no?

Less hate management than the original build above, but better dps (which is hate management of a sort).

*edit* - path of the badger should be similar/equal to the +intimidate boosts that stalwart affords. You only lack the Fighter Intimidate enhancements.

[Thanimal]

Yeah, that's the only possible kicker, but if you go WF you could always rely on Intimidate + warforged brute tactics + spamming 2d20 ki strikes (which is reasonable dps).
That should be enough, no?

Less hate management than the original build above, but better dps (which is hate management of a sort).

*edit* - path of the badger should be similar/equal to the +intimidate boosts that stalwart affords. You only lack the Fighter Intimidate enhancements.

Interesting. Way of the Badger does give you up to 4 (for a rather enormous action point investment that I suspect is not realistic), but Fighter Stalwart would still have a huge lead, with +3 Intimidate Enhancements and +6 from Stalwart. +5 (realistically I think +6) is a lot, but actually closer than I was thinking.

As far as reasonable DPS + Warforged Brute Fighting, that won't be close to the top DPS builds (keep in mind you're in CE not PA when tanking and WFBF tops out at +25% with a massive investment), so I wouldn't consider that a "real" Hate tanking option.

I'm not saying the Monk direction is non-viable, but I don't think it can be called a full-fledged aggro-control tank like Punchapotamus.

[cforce]

Just a little modification here, that I've noticed also has been miscalculated on Thanimal's HM thread.

Intimidate score optimally equipped at level 20:
23 ranks
+15 item
+3 CHA (6 base + 6 item + 4 Tome = 16)
+6 Shroud CHA skilz item
+4 GH
+2 luck (head)
+9 enhancements (vs. HM +6)
+2 Bard Song (hopefully available if tanking the game's hardest raid on Elite!)
---
74 (HM 71 here)

After calculating these numbers a few times, you should end up at 64?

23 + 15 = 38
+3 CHA = 41
+6 Shroud = 47
+4 GH = 51
+2 Luck = 53
+ 9 enhancment = 62
+ 2 bard song = 64

Where did the extra 10 come from?

Also, even though you haven't posted your gear list, you could basically get another +2 AC ahead of the HM build by taking advantage of the Stalwart Defender set. Stalwart Necklace & Cinder's Band.

Also another great bonus for those that go along with the third fighter PrE.

Hm -- good catch. I was just taking the Hate Monster total and adding a net +3 from enhancements -- I never went back and checked the math. Thanimal?

[cforce]

Great build, just one thing. EDIT: It should list 24/28, as in windstance you get -2.

EDIT2: Also, under the health breakdown you have 2 toughness feats, but under feats you only have 1.

The first listing was intentional -- just trying to list the base/max there, rather than min/max. Corrected the second -- nice catch, thanks.

[Thanimal]

Hm -- good catch. I was just taking the Hate Monster total and adding a net +3 from enhancements -- I never went back and checked the math. Thanimal?

ADDITION FAIL! I just went and fixed the HM post, but this does change things a bit. It means Hate mode is the only mode (probably for both of these options) against Elite end-game foes. But I'm increasingly convinced that's just fine, as long as a) they fix the hate generation stuff, and b) both HM and Punchapotamus put a little more focus on HPs.

I'll be updating some details on HM at some point to reflect the latest info I have about end-game tanking (from other forumites, not my own experience). The bottom line is I remain convinced that all of the "good" hate tanks can do the job with a little planning, a lot of equipment and consumables, and a good party.