You have got to fix Shield and Nightshield

[krud]

Go into a Brawl and test it out, 100% block.

Nerfing something to make it work in PvP will always draw a chorus of no's. Read what I and others have said. This game had no PvP at the beginning. It was added much later as an afterthought. It is and never will be the driving force behind any changes in the game. PvP is only a sideshow to the rest of the game. If your only argument for nerfing something is to make it work in PvP, you'll never get a good response.

[bandyman1]

You need to get The Spell Compendium, so you can actually know what your talking about. Force Missles and others are all in there and none of them are blocked my Shield or Nightshield.

Are you sure you have the spell conpendium???

Maybe you should take another look at chain missles.

Especially since it's already been quoted to you once in this thread.

[EddieB_TBC]

Go into a Brawl and test it out, 100% block.

As it is intended and as it works in the actual game content too. And sorry but why anyone would waste their time in a "brawl" for any reason in a game that isn't remotely balanced for PvP is seriously beyond me. Find a new spell to use when you are measuring up or whatever drives ya, and when you are employed by Turbine perhaps you will be in an authoratative position to rules lawyer for the rest of us.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Seriously are you guys just all ********? The Shield spell and Nightshield Spells SPECIFICALLY ONLY BLOCKS magic missles, no other spells AT ALL. Read in game and every single writing of both spells in any 3.5E book. It's broken and needs to be fixed.

Well since you want to go to the 3.5 handbook, you might want to notice that the other force spells aren't in it, they are constructs of DDO, and thus your reference to PnP in this case is meaningless

[Aspenor]

Let's see because the spell specifically stats Magic Missle ONLY! it's pretty simple. Read the players handbook, all the rules and you will understand why those 1st level spells are broken.

And it's not on a small portion of people. it's every single person who does brawls, cuz they all have Shield or Nightshield item buffs too. it's broken just fix it.

You apparently haven't got the first clue how Wizards of the Coast writes their rulebooks.

[hydra_ex]

DDO is not 3.5.

Any argument saying "its that way in pnp" is automatically defunct.

Give us one good reason other than PvP for why it should be changed, and we will listen.

And no, "because it says so in the description" is not an argument. Descriptions should follow mechanics, not vice-versa.

Just one good mechanical reason on why it should be changed.

[Aspenor]

Well since you want to go to the 3.5 handbook, you might want to notice that the other force spells aren't in it, they are constructs of DDO, and thus your reference to PnP in this case is meaningless

I've got a great 3.5 reference for him:

It's called Rule #1, it's found in the Dungeon Master's Guide.

The Dungeon Master's interpretation of the rules is always right.

[Angelus_dead]

Regardless of the problems pointed out in the suggestion, it would be reasonable to allow Force Missiles a chance to penetrate Shield / Nightshield, such as by passing an opposed caster-level check (as if Shield provided SR against FM), or by a failed Reflex save from the target.

For verisimilitude, it is odd for a low level spell to absolutely block out one that's quite a bit higher. And for balance it's a little unfair to hypothetical force-specced casters that certain mobs can easily become totally immune.

And on the subject of Force Missiles, it would be good for them to get a bit of splash damage against nearby enemies. Then the Mordenkainen's Sword spell has this problem where it doesn't even exist...

[krud]

Regardless of the problems pointed out in the suggestion, it would be reasonable to allow Force Missiles a chance to penetrate Shield / Nightshield, such as by passing an opposed caster-level check (as if Shield provided SR against FM), or by a failed Reflex save from the target.

For verisimilitude, it is odd for a low level spell to absolutely block out one that's quite a bit higher. And for balance it's a little unfair to hypothetical force-specced casters that certain mobs can easily become totally immune.

And on the subject of Force Missiles, it would be good for them to get a bit of splash damage against nearby enemies. Then the Mordenkainen's Sword spell has this problem where it doesn't even exist...

and add ranged touch attack for ray spells. I'm sure all pvp casters would welcome that too.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

and add ranged touch attack for ray spells. I'm sure all pvp casters would welcome that too.

And lets not forget SR should stop direct damage spells too.

[hydra_ex]

Regardless of the problems pointed out in the suggestion, it would be reasonable to allow Force Missiles a chance to penetrate Shield / Nightshield, such as by passing an opposed caster-level check (as if Shield provided SR against FM), or by a failed Reflex save from the target.

For verisimilitude, it is odd for a low level spell to absolutely block out one that's quite a bit higher. And for balance it's a little unfair to hypothetical force-specced casters that certain mobs can easily become totally immune.

And on the subject of Force Missiles, it would be good for them to get a bit of splash damage against nearby enemies. Then the Mordenkainen's Sword spell has this problem where it doesn't even exist...

This is exactly the argument which I wanted to hear in the OP. I completely agree with the chance to bypass. For the splash damage, not so much.

[spyyder976]

Magic Missiles are force missiles, therefore other force missile spells are also Magic Missiles, just more of them and higher damage.

[malthusian01]

It is pretty simple if you think about it.

Nightshield - Grants a +1 resistance bonus to saves (+2 at 6th level, +3 at 9th) and protection from magic missiles.


Protection from magic missles.

Missiles.
S

Plural.

The Magic Missile spell is just a kind of missile conjured by magic.

Magic Missile.

By nightshield's def, its obvious that any missile conjured with magic is blocked. I know its confusing to understand it if you dont think about it, but it is working as it should be.

[sephiroth1084]

kobolds dont have the shieldspell
afaik the only mob with shieldspell is the demonqueen, a lvl12 raid

Pretty sure this is not the case, as I distinctly recall tossing missiles of some kind at other enemies and seeing them blocked on occasion. Now, that may be from Nightshield or from Shield, but I'm fairly certain that the DQ is not the only one immune.

That said, the fact that players have this, as A_D said, is a huge buff! Nerfing the spells to no longer protect against other force spells would make them essentially useless after level 5 or so. If monsters are blocking your Force Missiles USE A DIFFERENT SPELL! It's simple really.

And if you still don't see the point, go try soloing VoN 4 (Haywire's Foundry) on a caster with Night Shield up, then try again without it.

[Angelus_dead]

If monsters are blocking your Force Missiles USE A DIFFERENT SPELL! It's simple really.

Realistically, even if monsters aren't blocking Force Missiles you still should probably use a different spell.

[Robi3.0]

Realistically, even if monsters aren't blocking Force Missiles you still should probably use a different spell.

True Dat!

[toughguyjoe]

why was there so much talk about this? Its all terribly simple.

Magic Missle is blocked by Nightshield/Shield.

Chain Missles Is block by Nightshield/Shield.

Force missles Is blocked by Nightshield/Shield.....IN DDO ONLY

Force missles is not blocked by Nightshield/Shield in PNP in my guess because Wizards thought it was foolish for a level one spell to block a level four spell. That was their decision.

Force Missles is blocked in DDP for their own reasons. I cannot read into them as turbine usues some mystical magic eight ball to make most of their decisions.

Has this catastrophe made DDO have some problem? NO.

Did this OP maybe lose in the PVP pit becaue of it? Probably.

the biggest thing is.............Why does it matter?

[noinfo]

For verisimilitude, it is odd for a low level spell to absolutely block out one that's quite a bit higher. And for balance it's a little unfair to hypothetical force-specced casters that certain mobs can easily become totally immune.
...

Problem is the very limited number of defensive spells anyway. After 4th level defensive spells really only duplicate existing spells.

Globes are even more poorly implemented so that there is only 1 quest in the game that it is even used and that is situaltional.

Give higher level versions of shield or night sheild that may have better bonuses or addtional effects including blocking force spells of the same or lower level. Give a better range of defensive spells.

[Vanda]

Please read the 3.5 spell compendium. I'll quote the important parts.

Chain Missile:

Spells, magic items, and abilities that protect against magic missile (such as the shield spell or a broach of shielding) also protect against this spell.

Force Missile:

Sparking bolts of blue magic, like giant magic missiles, streak from your outstretched hand...

Both are force effects that are basically amped up versions of magic missile. Force attacks are extremely powerful, especially in PnP were they can hit blurred, displaced, incorporeal and other targets without error or miss chance. Shield and Nightshield are made specifically to counter the very powerful impact of force damage.

So in sort, there is not problem and DDO is doing it correctly.

[sephiroth1084]

Realistically, even if monsters aren't blocking Force Missiles you still should probably use a different spell.

Generally, yeah, though there are times when Force Missiles are useful.