Rockan Robin, pure monk build and philosophy

[onethreeone]

What about feat selection? Any significant changes?

Nope. The only difference will be at level 18, where I take something else in place of CE.

[In_Like_Flynn]

I'm a little confused about which set of feats are recommended for this build. Or maybe it's just a matter of preference.

Feats:
1 Two weapon fighting
1 (monk) Toughness
2 (monk) Weapon Finesse
3 (monk) Path of Harmonious Balance
3 Dodge
6 Power Attack (requires +1 str tome)
6 (monk) Stunning Fist
9 Improved Two Weapon Fighting (requires +1 dex tome)
12 Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
15 Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18 Combat Expertise (requires +1 int tome)

Feats:
1 Two weapon fighting
1 (monk) Toughness
2 (monk) Weapon Finesse
3 (monk) Path of Harmonious Balance
3 Dodge
6 Combat Expertise (requires +1 int tome)
6 (monk) Stunning Fist
9 Improved Two Weapon Fighting (requires +1 dex tome)
12 Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
15 Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18 Power Attack (requires +1 str tome)

[oogly54]

Another VN build Rock!

[Anthios888]

please see OP for most recent updates to this build

[Anthios888]

I'm a little confused about which set of feats are recommended for this build. Or maybe it's just a matter of preference.

You're right - it's a matter of preference. I took CE first, and have found it useful on occasion. I just happened to have a +1 int tome but no +1 str tome. Probably if I did it again, I would take PA first. I don't feel like I was severely gimped for my decision either way .

Combat Expertise is difficult to use because you have to keep activating it, but it can be really nice to have that near-invincible mode for certain situations. Are those situations as frequent as the ones that require increased DPS? I don't know. Originally I thought I would never be able to handle the to-hit penalties being a wis build, but that turned out not to be the case - hitting has always been a strength.

With pros and cons both ways, I'd just consider your personal preference when it comes to low levels.

Edit - This discussion applies while leveling up with both feats. Endgame monks should have power attack as it comes into play far more often than combat expertise.

[maddmatt70]

Epic gear like epic spectral gloves, epic bracers of deftness, and epic dustless boots will make fitting in equipment very easy, which probably means that I will switch over to icy rainments + epic bracers of deftness to pick up a point or two of AC. I will also carry a robe of destruction for the situations where my AC is just not high enough and/or the to-hit problems are too much. I expect this to be a very useful epic character.

Just out of curiousity do you actually have any of these epic items made. Its a real grind to get epic items out of the desert even though these actually fit your build fairly well unlike many builds where the gear is not so great. A big comment for monks and epic content is the lack of prestige enhancements which hurts dps and the bug with weighted handwraps not applying to stunning fist/blow. Does your stunning fist land some on epic? Hopefully they fix this hideous bug. A pure monk is not a bad character in epic it would just be nice if the bug was fixed and dps prestige enhancements were added.

[Anthios888]

Just out of curiousity do you actually have any of these epic items made. Its a real grind to get epic items out of the desert even though these actually fit your build fairly well unlike many builds where the gear is not so great. A big comment for monks and epic content is the lack of prestige enhancements which hurts dps and the bug with weighted handwraps not applying to stunning fist/blow. Does your stunning fist land some on epic? Hopefully they fix this hideous bug. A pure monk is not a bad character in epic it would just be nice if the bug was fixed and dps prestige enhancements were added.

I have faith that with enough time, I will be able to grind whatever is needed. This would be the only character of mine to use most of those items, and is not in competition with other characters for any item but the epic spectral gloves (she'll get it 2nd after RockCandy).

I think the mistake most people make is underestimating monk DPS. Monks do not need prestige enhancements to be competitive in DPS in epic content - I built this character to be competitive now with the way class balance is right now. With triple bursting handwraps and weighted 5%, combined with great sneak attack, great undead damage, and punches, DR/10, great saves and improved evasion, DPS-focused monks are an ideal class for epic. They are strong both against mobs that can be crit and against those who cannot. Think about it - most of the tanks out there are wearing weighted 5% or greater undead bane or whatever a huge amount of the time, anyway. Monks get to combine that with the fast attack speed and even more bursts and other modifiers, especially once the stun lands. They have fewer weaknesses than other classes that may be specialized against a few mob types. The only major flaw imo is the difficulty meleeing against the marilith due to the knockdown and close range on h2h

I have not tried my stunning fist in epic, but my guess is that it will not be quite high enough to be reliable on that difficulty at least until weighted applies to the DC. Even so, the 5% chance every swing of rendering the mobs autocrit is going to take down nearly every mob type very quickly.

[Junts]

I have faith that with enough time, I will be able to grind whatever is needed. This would be the only character of mine to use most of those items, and is not in competition with other characters for any item but the epic spectral gloves (she'll get it 2nd after RockCandy).

I think the mistake most people make is underestimating monk DPS. Monks do not need prestige enhancements to be competitive in DPS in epic content - I built this character to be competitive now with the way class balance is right now. With triple bursting handwraps and weighted 5%, combined with great sneak attack, great undead damage, and punches, DR/10, great saves and improved evasion, DPS-focused monks are an ideal class for epic. They are strong both against mobs that can be crit and against those who cannot. Think about it - most of the tanks out there are wearing weighted 5% or greater undead bane or whatever a huge amount of the time, anyway. Monks get to combine that with the fast attack speed and even more bursts and other modifiers, especially once the stun lands. They have fewer weaknesses than other classes that may be specialized against a few mob types. The only major flaw imo is the difficulty meleeing against the marilith due to the knockdown and close range on h2h

I have not tried my stunning fist in epic, but my guess is that it will not be quite high enough to be reliable on that difficulty at least until weighted applies to the DC. Even so, the 5% chance every swing of rendering the mobs autocrit is going to take down nearly every mob type very quickly.

I think you will find that even with weighted applying to the dc, stunning fist will be of questionable reliability on epic, as the living creatures seem like they're all carrying saving throws in the 40s. Fully specced out casters are pretty much only hitting stuff on a 1 with reflex and will based stuff, and flesh to stone hasn't faired any better. A pure wisdom monk is looking at a better dc than casters are bringing to the table, but only by 7-9 points, not 15. On the other hand, the only way to fight drow, scorrow and gnolls is with weighted 5, and monks are really excelllent at that. Most beneficial, I think, will be being a halfling monk, as monk to-hit is sort of questionable without the flanking bonuses. Halfling Cunning (and even way of the faithful hound) will really go a long way.

Its worth saying that Raiyum's undead tend to have considerably worse saving throws and armor class compared to the OOB/Chains mobs, probably because they have so many other immunities. I think few things will be as effective as a holy burst + icy/flaming/shocking burst + holy of weighted 5 using monk, though the hardest part will be finding weighted 5 weapons with higher pluses .. it'd probably be better to use +3 of weighted 5 than +1 holy of weighted 5, given the mob acs in question.

[Anthios888]

I think you will find that even with weighted applying to the dc, stunning fist will be of questionable reliability on epic, as the living creatures seem like they're all carrying saving throws in the 40s. Fully specced out casters are pretty much only hitting stuff on a 1 with reflex and will based stuff, and flesh to stone hasn't faired any better. A pure wisdom monk is looking at a better dc than casters are bringing to the table, but only by 7-9 points, not 15. On the other hand, the only way to fight drow, scorrow and gnolls is with weighted 5, and monks are really excelllent at that. Most beneficial, I think, will be being a halfling monk, as monk to-hit is sort of questionable without the flanking bonuses. Halfling Cunning (and even way of the faithful hound) will really go a long way.

Its worth saying that Raiyum's undead tend to have considerably worse saving throws and armor class compared to the OOB/Chains mobs, probably because they have so many other immunities. I think few things will be as effective as a holy burst + icy/flaming/shocking burst + holy of weighted 5 using monk, though the hardest part will be finding weighted 5 weapons with higher pluses .. it'd probably be better to use +3 of weighted 5 than +1 holy of weighted 5, given the mob acs in question.

I'll make sure to use those weighted 5s on Undead

If you re-read my post, your comments are exactly what I said: stunning fist is at best a free chance to occasionally stun something in epic content, not a guaranteed reliable easy-win button. Weighted 5 is where the love is (except on undead, where I'll be using greater undead banes if you don't mind.. )

[Junts]

Oh I was agreeing with you; just noting the undead do have terrible saves, they get stuck in webs forever and stuff, unlike pretty much every other epic mob. The mummies hit webs and don't break out of them until it wears off. It's like they forgot to give them save boosts.

[Jebiah]

OK, I'm a newb when it comes to DDO (but a long time pnp player, so I get confused sometimes where the rules differ)...

I'm confused by the TWF line of feats here, combined with the talk of using handwraps -- so in DDO, does TWF apply to unarmed(handwraps)? Such that TWF/ITWF/GTWF stack with flurry?

...seems a bit... "wrong" in my head, but it seems there have been stranger things here, so I just wanted to clarify.

[Anthios888]

Yep, two weapon fighting line applies to handwraps in DDO, makes them even faster faster faster

This was a change that came about after monks were first released, but is currently the logic behind most of the handwrap builds around.

[direwolf33]

I am looking strongly at this monk build because I want a character can tank the epic grind. My preferred dex/AC ranger doesn't seem like he's going to have the oomph or stunning blow required and I'm thinking about TRing him.

Can you list some of the weapons you use to run epic quests on this build?

[Gratch]

Can you list some of the weapons you use to run epic quests on this build?

Yes... the best weapon to equip for an epic melee tank is:
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j/k... mostly. Epic is all about controlling your total number of foes and stopping them from hitting you (since ac is worthless in epic). Weighted 5% handwraps are awesome in Chains of Flame. Autocrits for you, mob stops attacking. The fastest chains run I've been on had everyone using 5% weighted with one high to-hit fighter off-wielding an imp destruction wep since the stuns don't go off if they don't hit. On a monk, having ToD rings with bursting damage will further bump up your auto-crit dps.

[metalclanger]

am I being a bit dim here, or have I missed something?
"24 STR: 12 + 2 tome + 6 item + 1 litany + 1 exceptional"
I make that a total of 22
Is that a typo or was something missed?

Just noticed the Con total's squiffy too

[Anthios888]

Thank you for the catch. My original version had a 14 base strength, which I lowered re-rolling a few times when I was first experimenting with the build. I will adjust it accordingly and update for the other changes I have made in leveling this super fun little halfling

[metalclanger]

I'm having fun with it, never really got into monk before and gave up by level 8. (just hit 6 )
The only problem so far has been the weight limit for halflings, just really screwed myself up in Stormcleave by picking up one too many crates! I started with 14 strength and went dominion just for a bit of flavour

[metalclanger]

having some issue with the stunning fist - weighted handwraps don't seem to be affecting the DC in the attack description. I had a look at the stunning blow feat but that doesn't include monk level, any idea if this is supposed to add to fist as well as blow?

[maddmatt70]

having some issue with the stunning fist - weighted handwraps don't seem to be affecting the DC in the attack description. I had a look at the stunning blow feat but that doesn't include monk level, any idea if this is supposed to add to fist as well as blow?

Unfortunately the handwrap weighted stunning fist dc is a bug which Turbine knows about but has not been fixed yet. I think it should be one of the first bug fixes Turbine makes especially since they just fixed the elite trap bug which was another hideous bug. I would hope it gets fixed by update 3 because it dramatically affects monk's usefulness on epic content.

[achitophel]

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