Rockan Robin, pure monk build and philosophy

**Tusc** · 11-04-2009, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by Anthios888

As far as alignment, there are still metalline of pure good handwraps in Shadow Crypt that do not require UMD 20. Eventually, I hope to get static pure good UMD: 11 ranks + 6 greensteel + 3 Vile Blasphemy + 4 Greater Heroism, but I admit that it will be a ways away. I personally like the neutral alignment for the extra saves, HP, and to-hit, but that really comes down to your preference. There are definite advantages either way.

I'm new. Fill me in a little better about alignment, if you don't mind. You listed some reasons to be lawful neutral, what are the reasons to be good. I'm guessing from your comment that the weapons might be a little better for good alignment, and that's why you're taking the UMD. How important is UMD to this build? What are the values of these extra saves, hitpoints and to-hit that a neutral gets. What advantages does good alignment get you?

Thanks. Cool build.

**eagle995** · 11-04-2009, 06:30 AM

I sent a tell to Anthios888 about the Fists of light. It was left out on accident and should be considered in the build. I took this build into Delera's tomb at level 5. I was able to stand there for a while and just see *miss* appear like mad when the skellys were trying to hit me. I was really impressed on how this build is setup. I have been going through mobs like mad and have not died in the 5 levels of useing this build. I can not wait to see how this build plays out when i get higher level and do Giant Hold quests. I been switching off stance depending on the instance mobs and their resists. Also if i have to assume the primary tank role or dps role. I was thinking of doing rez path but this balanced path is too solid to pass up.

Just wished their were more handwraps to be found. Best i found from quests was a +2 handwrap. Was also checking out http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=121279 and noticed there is hardly any monk items out there. Hope this changes in the future.

**Thanimal** · 11-04-2009, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by eagle995

Best i found from quests was a +2 handwrap.

In general, Min's Handwraps are better than those. They are always offered as a reward for that Korthos quest in the tavern (that I can never remember the name of). Before Headstart came into existence, I'd often run with Min's until at least level 4 on any of my Monk-splash builds (which is to say: all of them).

Free and pretty decent. A good combo.

**Junts** · 11-04-2009, 12:48 PM

the veteran head start handwraps are +1 flaming and the way to go for sure

**Darkrok** · 11-04-2009, 02:14 PM

Yeah, Delara's on normal is pretty close to a joke for us. Only spot I ever had to sweat (and call in my cleric hireling parked at the entrance) was on the spot that has 4 wraiths at the same time. Shield clickies whenever you'll be facing arcane, resist fire for the bigger fights in case a stray fireball hits you, and a ghost touch kama/handwraps for the wraiths and you're set.

**Tusc** · 11-10-2009, 11:24 AM

Basically what I am getting from this is that this build vs a strength based build (wearing similar gear and if both are halflings)

Wisdom based will net you about +4 AC and DC over the Strength version
Strength based will net you about +4 damage per hit over the Wisdom version

and of course the points toward those respective saves. That about right?

**Thanimal** · 11-10-2009, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Tusc

Basically what I am getting from this is that this build vs a strength based build (wearing similar gear and if both are halflings)

Wisdom based will net you about +4 AC and DC over the Strength version
Strength based will net you about +4 damage per hit over the Wisdom version

and of course the points toward those respective saves. That about right?

There is no save that is based on STR, and the Stunning Fist DC is almost the entire ballgame here.

STR-based would be quite different, and -- in my opinion -- once you decide to focus on STR on a "Monk," you should go mostly Fighter levels. I have linked 3 takes on Fighter 12/Monk 6+/Rogue 1+ from my favorite builds page. These offer way more DPS than Robin, BUT also don't have the defenses and the massive utility that a real monk does.

I think most of the community currently agrees that THE way to build a real Monk is Wisdom-focused. Your overall contribution will be greater than STR-focused.

**Tusc** · 11-10-2009, 11:56 AM

Yeah, I dunno what I was thinking on the saves...Fort is con, not str. My brain isn't working yet today.

I rolled up something based on this build last night, but dropped int to 10 and raised con to 15. Ate a +1 con tome to even it out, and have the possibility of maybe someday getting a +3 tome to get the mountain stance thing.

With the lower int, I figure I will forgo getting CE, and skip hide and move silently and drop more skill points into some of the other stuff. I have no idea how useful the sneak stuff is, and I may be missing out by dropping it, but I haven't seen that much need for it so far. I just like to run around and kill stuff.

**Mythal** · 11-11-2009, 10:49 PM

I also rolled one of these, taking very careful consideration of the build and trying to follow everything to the T.

i did hwoever take lesser dragonmark and 2 extra DMark enhancements.
i find as a halfling it is impossible to pass that up, at least while leveling. later ill swap it out as i realize 5 casts of CLW is meaningless.

now then the question is - what about spring attack? you didnt get it, and for a monk using fists its one of those huge "YES YOU NEED THIS" feats.
i try to stand still while fighting, it just isnt possible to do really.

in all, this build is awesome. first pure char ive made aside from a cleric. first monk. so dont have much to compare to, but it is badass. i even ran into tear that a guildie barb was soloing and he only had 6 HP left, and was only halfway thru, so i ran in and with fists of light charges was able to heal him up - no access to shrines because neither of us had rogue level.
was able to keep him alive the entire way down to boss just by fists of light and its finisher. got him off the ground from incap quite a few times with finisher, or a DMark.
clickies are easy to come by and make this build very self sufficient, half my inventory is now full of clickies, and i tend to stockpile all the potions i pickup. however im of the mindset that i never buy pots or scrolls or wands, if i rely on those, im a gimp build. so far theres never been an issue with that though.
fully buffed up in a group its also totally badass to play this.
i also overlooked halfling companion, until a friend cast it on me, and i was doing +10 dmg on my lightning fast fists. needless to say i got 2 ranks of that as soon as i left that dungeon with him.

my monk is on orien and im one of the higher levels now, hard to find groups sometimes as most players are lower, but that doesnt stop this build either because you just go solo machine anyway.

some things id note that i have issues with, are:
-UMD...is it really worth putting 0.5 pts into this every level? it will cap out at about 10-12 or so anyway. need 20 to use most things/wands/scrolls etc. even with necklace from deleras +3 so lets say you have 15 - but you cant rely on temporary buffs to be able to equip weapons, for example. so is it even worth me wasting 1 very precious skillpoint each level to get UMD to 12'ish???
-hide/move...these are currently slacking a few points behind, because of me pumping 1 pt into UMD always.
-ki, how do you get more ki, faster!? im a ki junkie. i just never have enough of it. also it seems a bit ******** to have such a high max ki (at level 10 its 150 or so) when you never get it filled up past maybe 50 anyway, and the (-X) degeneration is so high by then....if you dont use it up its just wasted in 20 seconds. how do you get higher concentration? is it seriously going to cap out at about 20+x at lvl 20? then say a 15 skill item if you can manage that...for 35+x concentration? 35 doesnt sound bad but ofc relies on getting that endgame skill item...
-power attack...you cant get power attack without 13 str. this build has 12. im thinking of eating a tome, or putting 1 str at lvl 12. probably better to eat a tome, i can afford one now on orien but it'll be all my money. probly not a bad thing though.
-dex vs wis. i really dont like putting everything into wis. lvl 4 and 8 i put into wis, but i am really missing the dex. i dont think it is worth it to put 5 lvls into wis. the only benefit is DC on stunning fist. is stunning fist really that important? right now for me, i try to use it on bosses, or giants, or big mobs that you actually need to stun to help the groups survivability...but it never lands on those anyway. at lvl 10 i have 21 or 23 wis, with only a +1 wis item. stunning fist lands fine on the small trash mobs...id say about 70% of the time (which is still pretty bad, considering im pumping my wis), but on important mobs that id actually want to stun, hardly ever works. on bosses, no way. so far this wis based stunning fist is totally gimp imo. i dont however have any weighted wraps yet, but weighted at my lvl only gives max +2 or +3 if lucky.
with dex id also get better to-hit, and of course AC would be the same, and id trade more reflex for less will save. i think a balance in dex/wis seems more appropriate, or no wis at all and just give up on the failing stunning fist goal.

im curious if the poster actually built this char and played it. if she did, was there any similar issue with stunning fist?
some builds look great on paper, and i think this is one of them, but in reality its often a different story, because we didnt imagine properly the game mechanics when creating the build.
its a great build ingame, but i know i am not the best dps, i know im also not the best defensive, so...what do i get instead?
so far to me - although i still love it, dont get me wrong - it seems like im just a bit of a gimped version of the typical halfling rogX/rangerX/fighterX/monkX splashes. i do less dps, i have less AC and survivability, i have no mana and no spells and must generate ki which is very hard to maintain in order to do any kind of "effects" (that are in effect quite minimal and dont last long - typically, using air-pos-air to give me blur for 1 minute doesnt last til the next fight, and it requires enough ki that i usually have to fight through the entire fight im currently facing, just to get it primed....so more often then not, i prime up a finisher and save it for the next fight. which sortof sucks because if you use any clicky, swap items, or even touch a lever - your finishing move disappates).

any feedback on this? is there something im missing?
gear wise i have quite OK gear, although a few slots are redundant. i also have no +wis item aside from a measly +1 on graskitches skullcap from WW. before that i had the +3 conc +1 tumble hat from korthos, and it seemed like an upgrade. though perhaps not

+2 will saves is nice though.
other then that, my setup now is:
armor: outfit +mobility +sr(15)
bracer: +3str (TGR)
gloves: +3dex (TGR)
boots: pathfinders (korthos)
amulet: pathfinders (korthos) -- just cant beat this set for a looong time. lol.
trinket: voice of the master (+1 or +2 saves/skills? cant remember. ofc 5% exp too

belt: +2con +light fort
ring1:+2con +5 skill (forgot which skill, and yup i need to swap either belt or ring)
ring2:+2cha+5diplo
helm: +1wis +2will
wraps: +1 true law, or +1 frost, or +3, or +1 pure good
shuriken: +2 returning acid blast of backstabbing (yeh it kicks ass actually! redwillow giants = easymode from rocks)
robe: +3cold/fire/electric (that robe from TGR)

any tips on what i should try to get? right now im trying to get a +2 wis item or +3. also need to swap ring1 or belt to something else because +2 con twice is meaningless. wraps are hard to come by on orien still, nobody is selling em. ive thought about selling my +1 pure good's just to get a ton of money, because i havent seen a single pure good wrap or kama up there yet since server started. id surely rake in at least 20kp for it.

and ya i think ill be buying that +1 str tome to get power attack for my next feat.
i am foregoing CE completely. i dont think this build is going to be a defensive monster like some AC builds are able to achieve, and the to-hit with so little points in dex (if any) will be too big of a drop with CE. i use normal defensive stance from time to time if i really need it. however i couldnt imagine being permanently in CE or DefStance anyway. this build uses alot of clickies, and they turn off both those stances right away anyhow.

**Individual** · 11-12-2009, 01:07 AM

Just a couple little nit-picks here;

A guildie of mine posted his Monk build here although I think hes currently on hiatus for school, its a 36 point build but the gear and feats seem to be a little cleaner. Would you change anything there?

I personally like the Wretched Twilight/Mentau/Litany combination, because it offers both great defensive and offensive, and the bonus from ghosty grants +5 Hide/Move aswell for Elite/Epic sneaking - Thrane's Goggles for spot when doing so, although with a high Wisdom it should be fine without ranks. Mineral 2 Helm vs Cloak loses 20 hitpoints buts gains the 20% - yes 20% concealment from WT which IMO > than 20 Hps. And Sneak Attack 4 + Seeker 4 > Sneak Attack 5.

In your Ac breakdown you mention the Chattering Ring but you dont have it listed in your gear selection, also you have Insight 2 listed aswell although would you give up both M9 rings for this +5 ac bonus? Instead of +2 Insight Ac on one of your M9 rings, consider Wisdom +2, you lose 1 Ac but you gain a DC.

**Anthios888** · 11-12-2009, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Individual

Just a couple little nit-picks here;

A guildie of mine posted his Monk build here although I think hes currently on hiatus for school, its a 36 point build but the gear and feats seem to be a little cleaner. Would you change anything there?

I personally like the Wretched Twilight/Mentau/Litany combination, because it offers both great defensive and offensive, and the bonus from ghosty grants +5 Hide/Move aswell for Elite/Epic sneaking - Thrane's Goggles for spot when doing so, although with a high Wisdom it should be fine without ranks. Mineral 2 Helm vs Cloak loses 20 hitpoints buts gains the 20% - yes 20% concealment from WT which IMO > than 20 Hps. And Sneak Attack 4 + Seeker 4 > Sneak Attack 5.

In your Ac breakdown you mention the Chattering Ring but you dont have it listed in your gear selection, also you have Insight 2 listed aswell although would you give up both M9 rings for this +5 ac bonus? Instead of +2 Insight Ac on one of your M9 rings, consider Wisdom +2, you lose 1 Ac but you gain a DC.

I love Inspire's build, but I think you missed a few things.

The dodge +3 is on the dragontouched robe.

The insight +2 is listed as an option and included in the maximum potential (swap off shocking burst ring). It is not included in my normal AC calculations, or in my power attack calculations. As a personal note, I would probably prefer the 1 AC over the DC since I would likely be using that maximum AC against red/purple names. The great thing is that I can make both

Now, seeker +4 is not > sneak attack +2, in this rare situation. For every other build, yes, but not on a monk on an unstunned mob (especially one with a high unbalancing strike DC). I initially used Wretched Twilight/Mentau's Goggles, but have switched back and forth in my original build post several times. The reason I settled with the Tharne's Goggles was the fact that Mentau's goggles adds very little DPS in boss situations for a monk. They don't crit often. The exception would be autocrit situations, where sneak attack is always applied - +8 vs +2. The rest of the time, the +2 sneak would significantly outdamage Mentau's, as well as provide an extra +1 to-hit, spot, and true seeing. That gap is increased if you consider the potential for fitting in an additional guard item or DPS-adding item. Keeping

In reality, I am holding off on crafting because this build potentially has the most to gain from epic items. An epic spectral gloves and epic bracers of deftness with +1 exceptional wisdom, dex, and con or extra +6 stats is very likely something I will work into this build to free up gear slots and thus fit in the extra seeker item. If I can get enough +1 exceptionals worked in, I will swap the DT robe for the Icy Rainments to pick up 1 AC point (+4 dodge vs +3 dodge)

I would not consider crafting a mineral II helm unless I find a way to put toughness elsewhere. Losing 20 HP is not worth it. Now, with epic crafting, it's likely I will be able to fit it in, so that is why I am waiting.

Thanks for the feedback. I agree with Inspire that this is a build that would benefit very much from going to 36 point build, but it is not the one that I personally will true reincarnate, since it performs its functions very well as-is and has more to gain in epic grinding than rerolling (ie I didn't make huge mistakes I regret)

**Junts** · 11-12-2009, 06:48 PM

Just to add to Anthios's commentary re: tharnes and wretched twilight, seeker +4 (or even 6) does almost nothing on a monk except when the mob is stunned (its worth 1.2 dps or something similarly silly), and its not worth the cost of an entire equipment slot. Litany+tharnes+free equipment slot creates a far better character than litany+mentaus+twilight.

**baddax** · 11-12-2009, 07:15 PM

I am currently leveling up almost this exact build with 1 major difference, I went Dwarf instead of hafling for the enhancements to stunning fist.

Just curious how the OP felt how this build would do with the extra points added to stunning fist DC from the dwarven enhancements vs. the loss of the extra AC/Dex from the hafling enhancements.

**onethreeone** · 11-12-2009, 11:43 PM

Rolled this build with 13str, 14con, and 10int (not going CE). Wow, this thing is amazingly easy & fun to level. Just hit 7, and Wholeness of Body adds the icing to the cake.

Unbalanced strike + Halfling guile = crazy damage.
AC is almost unhittable on Normal. For Hard, I find myself running around in the second stone stance for the DR 4/- for grazing hits.

FoL + its finisher keeps me topped off on HP pretty much all the time - there is definitely no need for Halfling dragonmarks with this build.

You also don't need Sprint Attack, since your to-hit is already really high. You're getting the extra attack benefits from TWF, but you're not getting the to-hit penalties.

Oozes & zombies make great HP rechargers with FoL, since they are slow to attack and take longer to kill.

**Individual** · 11-13-2009, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by Anthios888

The dodge +3 is on the dragontouched robe.

Right, my mistake. I assumed Icy Raiment with the Bracers of Deftness.

Originally Posted by Anthios888

The insight +2 is listed as an option and included in the maximum potential (swap off shocking burst ring). It is not included in my normal AC calculations, or in my power attack calculations. As a personal note, I would probably prefer the 1 AC over the DC since I would likely be using that maximum AC against red/purple names. The great thing is that I can make both

Not sure if I would personally use +2 Ac over Shocking Burst on boss mobs, unless I was soloing. Even then I think I would rather have the DPS since the Ac on this build is already fantastic, I might even prefer the DC since many boss mobs tend to have higher saves, the DC would allow for more Unbalancing and Eagle Claw on Epic diffculties which is great for the whole party and not just yourself.

Originally Posted by Anthios888

Now, seeker +4 is not > sneak attack +2, in this rare situation. For every other build, yes, but not on a monk on an unstunned mob (especially one with a high unbalancing strike DC). I initially used Wretched Twilight/Mentau's Goggles, but have switched back and forth in my original build post several times. The reason I settled with the Tharne's Goggles was the fact that Mentau's goggles adds very little DPS in boss situations for a monk. They don't crit often. The exception would be autocrit situations, where sneak attack is always applied - +8 vs +2. The rest of the time, the +2 sneak would significantly outdamage Mentau's, as well as provide an extra +1 to-hit, spot, and true seeing. That gap is increased if you consider the potential for fitting in an additional guard item or DPS-adding item.

Mentau > trash mobs, whereas Thrane's > boss mobs. I dont know about you but I always wear Weighted 5% handwraps when fighting trash mobs since - in combination with stunning fist and bursting rings - you almost never beat an enemy down without getting auto-criticals. Depending when you get your stun off(and with this build, a 32-34 DC is usually the first strike) would be the defining decision between the two. Since Thranes and Mentaus can be switched out situationally since they use the same item slot I feel this argument is kind of moot.

I disagree on the guard item, I would choose to make a Smoke GS item since the Ac on this build will almost always be fantastic or better, and the displacement is nice for soloing, although I tend to do alot more of that than some others. I which case you could 86' the Wretched Twilight for something else, or put your Smoke item there which has some nice options like Charisma skills +3 and exceptional Fire Resist and Reflex Saves or Dexterity skills for H & MS.

Originally Posted by Anthios888

Keeping In reality, I am holding off on crafting because this build potentially has the most to gain from epic items. An epic spectral gloves and epic bracers of deftness with +1 exceptional wisdom, dex, and con or extra +6 stats is very likely something I will work into this build to free up gear slots and thus fit in the extra seeker item. If I can get enough +1 exceptionals worked in, I will swap the DT robe for the Icy Rainments to pick up 1 AC point (+4 dodge vs +3 dodge)

I thought the same thing.

Originally Posted by Anthios888

I would not consider crafting a mineral II helm unless I find a way to put toughness elsewhere. Losing 20 HP is not worth it. Now, with epic crafting, it's likely I will be able to fit it in, so that is why I am waiting.

Yep, craft Toughness on your Epic items!

Originally Posted by Anthios888

Thanks for the feedback. I agree with Inspire that this is a build that would benefit very much from going to 36 point build, but it is not the one that I personally will true reincarnate, since it performs its functions very well as-is and has more to gain in epic grinding than rerolling (ie I didn't make huge mistakes I regret)

True Reincarnation may be a gradual thing for many builds, as we see new items and weapons come out etc. I like the +3 damage from reincarnating as a monk x3 though!

I mean no offense in this post, I hold Wisdom based monks in the highest regard. This one in particular is a great philoshophy on how to play a monk in its most powerful form(IMO), and I would change very little from the original build.

Originally Posted by Junts

Just to add to Anthios's commentary re: tharnes and wretched twilight, seeker +4 (or even 6) does almost nothing on a monk except when the mob is stunned (its worth 1.2 dps or something similarly silly), and its not worth the cost of an entire equipment slot. Litany+tharnes+free equipment slot creates a far better character than litany+mentaus+twilight.

So then it would come to an easy goggle swap Thranes and Mentau one when fighting trash mobs for the extra damage on auto-criticals and the other for constant sneak attack damage. That said, the Wretched Twilight also has the 20% concealment which IMO > than 20 Hps from the Minos Legens, although using the Epic crafting you can still get Toughness on other items. But the less items we have to swap in and out the more DPS these builds can dish out.

I would still really like to hold comments on what gear is better untill we see the Epic versions of the Cloak of the Zephyr, Lion-headed Belt Buckle, Dustless Boots, etc. Because we already know the great usage these builds can get from the Epic versions of the Spectral Gloves and Bracers of Deftness. Time will tell what the best gear set-up will be and even then some will be greater in different aspects. Like the first example; 20 hps vs 20% concealment, the concealment is great for most trash mobs and some boss, but for many boss mobs who have True Seeing the 20 hps would be better.

**Junts** · 11-13-2009, 01:30 AM

Originally Posted by Individual

Right, my mistake. I assumed Icy Raiment with the Bracers of Deftness.

Not sure if I would personally use +2 Ac over Shocking Burst on boss mobs, unless I was soloing. Even then I think I would rather have the DPS since the Ac on this build is already fantastic, I might even prefer the DC since many boss mobs tend to have higher saves, the DC would allow for more Unbalancing and Eagle Claw on Epic diffculties which is great for the whole party and not just yourself.

Mentau > trash mobs, whereas Thrane's > boss mobs. I dont know about you but I always wear Weighted 5% handwraps when fighting trash mobs since - in combination with stunning fist and bursting rings - you almost never beat an enemy down without getting auto-criticals. Depending when you get your stun off(and with this build, a 32-34 DC is usually the first strike) would be the defining decision between the two. Since Thranes and Mentaus can be switched out situationally since they use the same item slot I feel this argument is kind of moot.

I disagree on the guard item, I would choose to make a Smoke GS item since the Ac on this build will almost always be fantastic or better, and the displacement is nice for soloing, although I tend to do alot more of that than some others. I which case you could 86' the Wretched Twilight for something else, or put your Smoke item there which has some nice options like Charisma skills +3 and exceptional Fire Resist and Reflex Saves or Dexterity skills for H & MS.

I thought the same thing.

Yep, craft Toughness on your Epic items!

True Reincarnation may be a gradual thing for many builds, as we see new items and weapons come out etc. I like the +3 damage from reincarnating as a monk x3 though!

I mean no offense in this post, I hold Wisdom based monks in the highest regard. This one in particular is a great philoshophy on how to play a monk in its most powerful form(IMO), and I would change very little from the original build.

So then it would come to an easy goggle swap Thranes and Mentau one when fighting trash mobs for the extra damage on auto-criticals and the other for constant sneak attack damage. That said, the Wretched Twilight also has the 20% concealment which IMO > than 20 Hps from the Minos Legens, although using the Epic crafting you can still get Toughness on other items. But the less items we have to swap in and out the more DPS these builds can dish out.

I would still really like to hold comments on what gear is better untill we see the Epic versions of the Cloak of the Zephyr, Lion-headed Belt Buckle, Dustless Boots, etc. Because we already know the great usage these builds can get from the Epic versions of the Spectral Gloves and Bracers of Deftness. Time will tell what the best gear set-up will be and even then some will be greater in different aspects. Like the first example; 20 hps vs 20% concealment, the concealment is great for most trash mobs and some boss, but for many boss mobs who have True Seeing the 20 hps would be better.

Unless you are committed to using the wretched twilight, there is nor eason to swap from tharnes to mentaus, since auto-crit mobs are also auto-sneak attack, and therefore tharnes also does 8 damage per attack to them, the same as mentau's .. if you are swapping to wretched twilight for trash mobs, thats one thing, but if it doesnt get worked in its likely because that slot is needed for crafting.

**TurkCorleon** · 11-13-2009, 11:40 AM

Would this be a good solo player build? Seems like it would but I'd like to get input from others.

Also, if you're going to be going solo would you still get Halfling Heroes Companion 3? What would you take instead?

**Anthios888** · 11-13-2009, 01:53 PM