Rockan Robin, pure monk build and philosophy

[CountHenri]

Nooooooooooooooo you made it Helf...

They are the offspring of Real-Dolls and The Stepford Wives and really just creep me out...

I love my Halfling pounding away with his 2d14 fists of fury...

Thankyou in advance for adding in the Halfling info again.

Was going to ask about improved sunder etc...

Will just play with my Monks build now and see how it works out

[Quetzacoala]

I'm in the middle of finals right now but I will include a halfling section on the original post. Do you think I should include the original dex build halfling, or the more current strength build? The strength build kinda needed a lot of gear help to work right in my opinion, but it was a bit better since it had an extra feat.

To be honest, I feel that you should include the original dexterity build. While including a strength version would be nice, you can fairly easily figure what it would be by comparing it to the half-elf build. You just cannot do that with the dexterity build

[angelwblueeyes]

To be honest, I feel that you should include the original dexterity build. While including a strength version would be nice, you can fairly easily figure what it would be by comparing it to the half-elf build. You just cannot do that with the dexterity build

I second that motion!

Ever since I was introduced to your build, I always refer back to your page for advice on my monk. I'd like to see the oriiginal version again, if you please!

[stoerm]

Just here to thank Anthios for putting up this build for us. I'd listened to Alex Haddox's DDOcast segments way back and this seemed to be similar in style to his recommendations, so I picked it as a traditional balanced dex/wis/AC option over newfangled str builds.

My halfling is the first monk I've played and so far - from Korthos to lvl 6 - it's awesome. I'm still learning how to put monk abilities to best use, but just the survivability is unbelievable. DPS is not the main focus, so it's not worth comparing with others, although I just carried a newbie pug with 90% of the kills. AC self buffed reaching mid-high 40s, evasion, saves, and wearing crafted lesser vampirism handwraps means this girl never has to hit a shrine and rarely even drinks a cure potion. So far my only worry is can it be as awesome at higher levels - I'm sure it will.

[Quetzacoala]

Why does this build take the Way of the Elegant Crane as opposed to the Way of the Patient Tortoise or the Way of the Clever Monkey?

Is it simply a matter of preference?

[Anthios888]

Why does this build take the Way of the Elegant Crane as opposed to the Way of the Patient Tortoise or the Way of the Clever Monkey?

Is it simply a matter of preference?

I prefer tortoise (hp) or hound (to-hit). Crane used to be amazing when stun was autocrit.

[Anthios888]

Updated as requested with a link to the original dex-based halfling build. It might not have been able to heal itself well, but halflings have more fun!

[Splotto]

Updated as requested with a link to the original dex-based halfling build. It might not have been able to heal itself well, but halflings have more fun!

Thank you!

[magnvix]

Currently leveling a monk following your guidelines and friggin' love it! I'm curious about Improved Sunder at higher levels. With a 34 DC, is it still gonna hit? I was thinking of maybe swapping it later for some more hitpoints (toughness).

Also, is there no way to fit Monk Improved Recovery II and Human Recovery II into the enhancement list? I never use the 10% bonus elemental damage attacks, maybe I could fit more healing amp in place of those?

[Anthios888]

Currently leveling a monk following your guidelines and friggin' love it! I'm curious about Improved Sunder at higher levels. With a 34 DC, is it still gonna hit? I was thinking of maybe swapping it later for some more hitpoints (toughness).

Also, is there no way to fit Monk Improved Recovery II and Human Recovery II into the enhancement list? I never use the 10% bonus elemental damage attacks, maybe I could fit more healing amp in place of those?

Glad you like it! I'm thinking about dropping improved sunder as well, but I'm going to give it a little more time. It does drop fortification every time you use it, so you can start landng it after a while. It really shines when you're in a raid with others doing it, too, so that you can all keep the boss debuffed. I'll weigh how often I'm actually in raids versus how long I'm running epic quests and take toughness if it doesnt seem worth it.

I don't miss the improved recovery much, but you can fit it in if you are willing to get rid of void 4. If you can push your quivering palm up high enough, you might be able to dispense of void 4.

I'm also thinking about using mostly fire stance even at endgame, because of how often I am using ki-intensive moves. I feel like I'm wanting to use quivering palm, touch of death, stunning fist, shadow fade, and more every time they're off timer.

[sweez]

Currently leveling a monk following your guidelines and friggin' love it! I'm curious about Improved Sunder at higher levels. With a 34 DC, is it still gonna hit? I was thinking of maybe swapping it later for some more hitpoints (toughness).

That sounds like about what I have on my monk, with crafted cursespewing wraps of shatter +8 I keep eLoB shattered/dark cursed roughly 90% of the time (although there's always at least one more person with imp sunder in these groups).

Also, is there no way to fit Monk Improved Recovery II and Human Recovery II into the enhancement list? I never use the 10% bonus elemental damage attacks, maybe I could fit more healing amp in place of those?

Those are prereqs for touch of death.

[magnvix]

I'm also thinking about using mostly fire stance even at endgame, because of how often I am using ki-intensive moves. I feel like I'm wanting to use quivering palm, touch of death, stunning fist, shadow fade, and more every time they're off timer.

Yea, leveling right now I find myself desperate for more ki generation and sometimes want to run in fire stance but it's hard to not watch the numbers fly by as fast, which is what I love about monk.


Also, didn't know that those were prereqs for touch of death. And I love void a lot, so I probably won't go for the improved recovery.

[Crusad]

Why is the Helf build starting with 15 dex and halfling with 16? Considering +2 tome GM of Storm requires 18 dex, how does the Helf qualify for that? I dont own Helfs (yet), so im curious about this

[Anthios888]

Why is the Helf build starting with 15 dex and halfling with 16? Considering +2 tome GM of Storm requires 18 dex, how does the Helf qualify for that? I dont own Helfs (yet), so im curious about this

You were right. The "final stats" were pretty outdated, so I fixed them to be more realistic to be able to get void 4 and all of the other things you want.

The issue was not a halfling and half-elf comparison. I'm not recommending the halfling anymore unless someone wants a halfling. There shouldn't be any halfling stuff in the main part of the build post unless it's an error. The reason halfling started with 16 is because halfling gets DEX cheaper because of a racial +2 bonus.

If you're making a 32-point build and can't get +2 and +3 tomes, just use fire stance and start DEX at whatever you need to hit 17 with a tome to qualify for improved/greater two weapon fighting.

I changed everything to 15 so that people could use a +3 tome to get any of the grandmaster stances and also qualify for void 4 on a 32 point build. This is probably a more balanced approach for new monk players, since it lets you try different stances out.

[DemonMage]

Your standard enhancements have some halfling stuff still:

Rockan Robin standard action points
Monk Serenity
Halfling Dex II
Halfling Cunning II
Halfling Guile II

Rockan Robin with void IV (epic 6-man focused)

Halfling Dexterity II
Halfling Cunning I
Halfling Guile I

Unless I'm mistaken and half-elfs can take those too now, you probably should update that section for what you currently use.

[Edit]
Also this just before the stats

The cool thing is that it is very easy to re-spec now. A lesser reincarnate can change the same halfling dex build to a wisdom ninja spy to a strength ninja spy to a wisdom shintao monk. Decide what you like -- monks are awesome!

And

Presenting Rockan Robin, the balanced air stance punchy new age monk!

Implies you use air stance, but your stat breakdown implies you use fire stance. May be worth a word on when you prefer which or changing it if you only stick to once stance.

[Edit2] Under your new player information:

Taking the stances, toughness, healing amplification, wisdom and dex, and Halfling cunning and guile will rarely lead you astray.

[OliviaCrowley]

I adapted your build into a 34p Light monk with Paladin PL, as that's what I am going to end up as once I get the tokens (and eventually 36p Light). Dark is neat, but I'd like to play a supportive, moderate-damage and hard to kill character. My question is how tanky could I make the monk? I was planning on picking up GM Earth and slipping in Human Heal Amp II, but I could drop the heal amp and grab Air or Fire instead for versatility.

Current HP for this build is:

20 Base
+10 Argo
+69 2 toughness+enhancements+1 tortoise
+30 GFL
+45 GS min2 hat
+20 Toughness item (would go on jidz probably)
+160 20 monk
+140 7 con mod
= 494 HP

GM Earth stance w/ +1 Exceptional Con = 534
+ Yugo pot = 574
+ Rage = 594

For the life after this I'm not sure if I'd lose a Toughness or not. Depends if I want to keep both PL:Pal and PL:Monk. I'd probably add my extra 2 points at 36p into Con though, which would net me an extra 20 HP with a Litany.

Not sure what the AC breakdown would be, but assuming I can get AC into meaningful numbers, would that HP be acceptable for tanking things?

[Anthios888]

I adapted your build into a 34p Light monk with Paladin PL, as that's what I am going to end up as once I get the tokens (and eventually 36p Light). Dark is neat, but I'd like to play a supportive, moderate-damage and hard to kill character. My question is how tanky could I make the monk? I was planning on picking up GM Earth and slipping in Human Heal Amp II, but I could drop the heal amp and grab Air or Fire instead for versatility.

Current HP for this build is:

20 Base
+10 Argo
+69 2 toughness+enhancements+1 tortoise
+30 GFL
+45 GS min2 hat
+20 Toughness item (would go on jidz probably)
+160 20 monk
+140 7 con mod
= 494 HP

GM Earth stance w/ +1 Exceptional Con = 534
+ Yugo pot = 574
+ Rage = 594

For the life after this I'm not sure if I'd lose a Toughness or not. Depends if I want to keep both PL:Pal and PL:Monk. I'd probably add my extra 2 points at 36p into Con though, which would net me an extra 20 HP with a Litany.

Not sure what the AC breakdown would be, but assuming I can get AC into meaningful numbers, would that HP be acceptable for tanking things?

Hi Xinrok

That's a fine route to go. Your hp are light for some of the harder raids, but will work well for the lower difficulties of things. That said, it's still very doable, especially if you can always throw on a yugoloth potion for the harder battles when you're not too concerned about losing aggro.

Other ways to increase your HP would include using envenomed cloak (+7 con), bracers of the claw (+2 con), litany of the dead (+1, as well as AC), and a large guild augment item (20 hp).

If you're really interested in tanking, I think that you're missing out on a huge feature by choosing light monk over dark. Under ordinary circumstances, both light and dark are uber. For your purposes, the 25% shadow fade is a major asset to defense. 25% fewer hits and mournlands and everything that goes with it is something to think about.

Earth stance is the biggest boost to monk tanking. However, you're going to have to take another stance as well if you want to raid, because even as a build specced to tank, there are always situations where you cannot run the +threat out of courtesy. On a monk, that threat = aggro. For another stance to use in raids when not flanking, air would probably be ideal because it is the top DPS stance. That said, on your build, I don't see anything wrong with simply using the lowly level 1 fire stance (+2 str, -2 wis, +ki generation). It will let you ditch the hate, and it's good to keep on your bar anyway for trash mobs to get enough ki to spam quivering palm and stuff.

The bottom line is that it can absolutely be done on both a light and dark monk. Here's a guildie who regularly tanks epic lord of blades on his light monk.

[OliviaCrowley]

Thanks for the reply. I actually have GM Earth + Master of the other three in my set up right now, as I had originally wanted Void 4. I ditched that idea because in order to get void 4 I'd need to drop the entire Cleric Dil enhancement line (and the 1 in tortoise), but I kept the other stances for versatility. It sounds like it'd be acceptable to have those 3 masters, GM stone and use the extra 4 enhancements in Human Amp II.

(And I dropped the Void 4 idea because, as a friend pointed out, if I want to vorpal trash I can grab an epic Stalker ring to swap)

As for HP, I was actually laying in bed earlier thinking what else I could pick up. She's pretty gear light at the moment, mostly because that character was old/underused and gosh I can't stand playing my paladin. The only notable things she has right now are epic Mabar cloak and epic Brawling Gloves. Curious, how does Shadow Fade interact with the Ghostly effect of the Mabar cloak?

Another idea I had for HP gains would be dropping one of the stance lines (water?) to free up 6 Enhancement points. Four of those into Greater Adaptability: Con and maybe put the other two into another tortoise. That'd give me a little gear wiggle room, or allow me to jump up a tier entirely if I managed a +4 Con tome in the far future.

Thanks for the link to his profile, I keep forgetting about the Abishai set. I've played on-and-off for ages so there are a lot of things that slip my mind. I was making a Min2 hat, but maybe I could get the three piece using the boots or bracers.

[Anthios888]

Thanks for the reply. I actually have GM Earth + Master of the other three in my set up right now, as I had originally wanted Void 4. I ditched that idea because in order to get void 4 I'd need to drop the entire Cleric Dil enhancement line (and the 1 in tortoise), but I kept the other stances for versatility. It sounds like it'd be acceptable to have those 3 masters, GM stone and use the extra 4 enhancements in Human Amp II.

(And I dropped the Void 4 idea because, as a friend pointed out, if I want to vorpal trash I can grab an epic Stalker ring to swap)

As for HP, I was actually laying in bed earlier thinking what else I could pick up. She's pretty gear light at the moment, mostly because that character was old/underused and gosh I can't stand playing my paladin. The only notable things she has right now are epic Mabar cloak and epic Brawling Gloves. Curious, how does Shadow Fade interact with the Ghostly effect of the Mabar cloak?

Another idea I had for HP gains would be dropping one of the stance lines (water?) to free up 6 Enhancement points. Four of those into Greater Adaptability: Con and maybe put the other two into another tortoise. That'd give me a little gear wiggle room, or allow me to jump up a tier entirely if I managed a +4 Con tome in the far future.

Thanks for the link to his profile, I keep forgetting about the Abishai set. I've played on-and-off for ages so there are a lot of things that slip my mind. I was making a Min2 hat, but maybe I could get the three piece using the boots or bracers.

Ghostly is currently the same as blur 20%. However, it's being changed to an incorporeal bonus 10% which will not stack with Shadow Fade. So you will pick up 2/5 of that bonus there.

Dropping one or two of the other stances would be perfectly fine and would be a nice idea if you are looking to tank more. Healing amplification is going to be among your greatest assets as a monk-tank, so that will be more of a priority.

Void 4 is extremely expensive and there are many reasons not to take it because of AP. Your friend's advice or justification doesn't make a lot of sense, though. Manslayer does not work on most enemies, and does not instakill unless the target is under 1000 hp. The point of void4 is that it can erase a full-hp target that is unaffected by many other instakills. For example, you can kill the pillars in epic lord of blades, or epic paladins with saves generally too high to quivering palm, or undead and constructs. It will really up your kill count, especially if you are undergeared for quivering palm. Basically, this falls into the "versatile party support" stuff and you would be sacrificing this offensive power to be a better tank.

[OliviaCrowley]

Ghostly is currently the same as blur 20%. However, it's being changed to an incorporeal bonus 10% which will not stack with Shadow Fade. So you will pick up 2/5 of that bonus there.

Dropping one or two of the other stances would be perfectly fine and would be a nice idea if you are looking to tank more. Healing amplification is going to be among your greatest assets as a monk-tank, so that will be more of a priority.

Void 4 is extremely expensive and there are many reasons not to take it because of AP. Your friend's advice or justification doesn't make a lot of sense, though. Manslayer does not work on most enemies, and does not instakill unless the target is under 1000 hp. The point of void4 is that it can erase a full-hp target that is unaffected by many other instakills. For example, you can kill the pillars in epic lord of blades, or epic paladins with saves generally too high to quivering palm, or undead and constructs. It will really up your kill count, especially if you are undergeared for quivering palm. Basically, this falls into the "versatile party support" stuff and you would be sacrificing this offensive power to be a better tank.

Thanks for the heads up on the Mabar cloak. As for stances, I think I'll drop Water and keep the rest.

w/r/t Stalker ring: Maybe my friend didn't realize that. He actually said more along the lines of, 'Between the thaarak wraps and stalker ring, you don't really need it.' Not sure if those same limitations apply to the wraps, as I've never actually used either them or a Terror.

But yeah, I think I'd rather focus on tanking. In order to get Void 4 on a Light monk I'd need to give up the Cleric Dil enhancements, heal amp, a tiny bit (5-10) of hp and now 1 con. Of course, while I'm in the process of gearing up, it might benefit me more to have Void 4. Then I can respec it away when I'm 'ready' to tank more difficult content.

Thanks for all your help.

e: Back on HP subject for a second, venom cloak + litany, bracers, large augment, +1 con from 36p and +1 from g. human adapt would be an extra 80 HP and put me at 674 in GM Earth w/ Rage+Yugo. Not bad!

e2: I forgot ship buff too. 694. Not sure where Gorbasch got the extra 5 con from, as I'd be at 40 with: 16 base, 7 cloak, 3 exc, 3 tome, 3 stance, 1 enhance, 1 litany, 2 ship, 2 yugo, 2 rage.