Rockan Robin, pure monk build and philosophy

[Visucius]

nice build rockan but how much does the 28pt build compare to 32pt? will it suffer alot or..? because i was thinking about purchasing the 32pt build. also since i party alot with freinds how fast will this class be able to lv(zerging)? and how well does this build contribute to the rest of the group? i party with a cleric/barb and a sorc and on occasion with a ranger all together.

oh! and just how rare are tomes? i mean they go for what 30kplat on AH or sumtin so i guess pretty rare.

[Dim_Mak]

Build is nerfed if you ask me. Been playing like past 3-4 hours and I can't kill anymore like I used to LVL 14..Greater Wind stance is pretty much like it isn't on...

[Anthios888]

Build is nerfed if you ask me. Been playing like past 3-4 hours and I can't kill anymore like I used to LVL 14..Greater Wind stance is pretty much like it isn't on...

I was thinking just the opposite.

Every melee build got nerfed. Every monk build got nerfed. These changes do not affect this build disproportionately more than the next monk out there.

This build is better off than it was before the change because unlike many other melee builds out there, it lands stun very reliably now. Between that and AC working in epic, a wisdom-based monk makes much more sense than it did last mod, where neither stunning nor AC was reliable enough to be called a sure thing.

I would strongly consider speccing Ninja Spy instead of Shintao Monk (depending on your preferences ... Shintao is more new-player friendly and generates a lot more healing). Extra 2d6 sneak attack would go a long way here.

So, sorry you're not having fun. I played Rockan last night through epic house P quests, and although I definitely missed the extra attacks and stuns from weighted (how can you not), I was really happy with how fast I could still take monsters out when I landed stun on them.

[SickCat]

I'll agree with the positive aspect of the changes in U5. My pure monk LR'd several months ago and started with an 8 Wis since I couldn't land a stun to save my butt. I LR'd back to Wis/Dex last night and ran VoN 1 and 2 epic. Where before I couldn't tell you that I ever landed a stun, this time, I was hard pressed to find a mob it didn't land on. A 42 DC on Fist and the lowered saves on epic mobs is HOT! Hmmm...this isn't all true I think...the trolls in Ready Room 1 have ridiculously high saves to Fist, as do the Hounds in VoN 2. And even with a base 8 Chr, I can still VERY reliably dance things in epic. I'm actually using my monk abilities now instead of just auto-attack/afking waiting for the weighted wraps to proc. I also see quite a few double strikes when I Smite, which is ~400 dmg (~200 for a regular hit), and a couple times I saw a triple Smite! I have a Pro from Evil ability buff which lasts 20 minutes, and Moment of Clarity had people in my group cheering! It only lasts 10 seconds, but now I'm spamming abilities like crazy! Between keeping Clarity up, I'm smiting and stunning...it's far better game play for me than it was...I'm very happy

The down side...I ended up missing out on tier 3 and 4 of 1/2ling cunning, so I'm doing 4 points less damage. I could always shift something around...but what. On a very small scale, Void Strike is making up for at least a tiny portion of that missing damage since I use it to keep Clarity up. That +5 to hit for the melee is worth it! I'm sure I could shift things around and LR this guy one more time to get it right...but I'm having a lot of fun at the moment, so it's going to wait.......at least a week

I'm holding out for Shintao III...where they just might let us bypass silver DR...

[drromanelli]

I was thinking just the opposite.

This build is better off than it was before the change because unlike many other melee builds out there, it lands stun very reliably now. Between that and AC working in epic, a wisdom-based monk makes much more sense than it did last mod, where neither stunning nor AC was reliable enough to be called a sure thing.

I would strongly consider speccing Ninja Spy instead of Shintao Monk (depending on your preferences ... Shintao is more new-player friendly and generates a lot more healing). Extra 2d6 sneak attack would go a long way here.

Agreed... I used your build for my first Champion, got it leveled and geared up, and it works as beautifully now as it did pre-U5. Very potent, and my favorite character to play.

In fact, I'm planning to reincarnate to take advantage of the +20% xp, but I'm agonizing over doing so without being sure how the new PrE's might or might not fit in.

Do you have any recommendations, or perhaps even a revised template cooking up?

[Anthios888]

Agreed... I used your build for my first Champion, got it leveled and geared up, and it works as beautifully now as it did pre-U5. Very potent, and my favorite character to play.

In fact, I'm planning to reincarnate to take advantage of the +20% xp, but I'm agonizing over doing so without being sure how the new PrE's might or might not fit in.

Do you have any recommendations, or perhaps even a revised template cooking up?

I guess at this point I just recommend doing what you enjoy with the build. I think Ninja Spy is really nice because the dark monk stuff works better with high wisdom, and the extra sneak damage is especially good when stuff is stunned. That said, I'm not going to look down on anyone enjoying Shintao Monk, either. Silver and Cold Iron effectively give Shintao Knight of the Chalice on mobs with DR -- being able to use a X of greater bane instead of metalline is a nic DPS jump. And, buffs and healing aren't quantifiable on DPS calculators, but everyone who has played a monk know that they are a huge help.

The biggest thing making monks attractive to me is the very high stunning / quivering palm / earthwindfire dance / unbalancing strike. I'd keep wisdom as high as possible (I'll run with 18 base WIS when I TR again, unless fire stance continues to be bugged out to give more double strike than wind stance). Achieving a good balance between DPS and AC is now as true as it was when this build was designed.

Don't forget to take past life: monk. I'd take it in place of Combat Expertise. Dropping INT to 8 or 10 is also a nice way to shore up other stats that you find you use a lot or have an odd number in.

Good luck!

[SickCat]

Hmmm...I'm pretty sure we never got silver DR...just Byeshk from Shintao I and Cold Iron from Shintao II...I was hoping we'd get Silver from Shintao III if that gets released at some point.

[Anthios888]

Hmmm...I'm pretty sure we never got silver DR...just Byeshk from Shintao I and Cold Iron from Shintao II...I was hoping we'd get Silver from Shintao III if that gets released at some point.

Right. I was just saying that looking down the road and comparing light vs dark, neither is really a bad choice. It sounds as though Shintao III will add silver. Even if it doesn't, it's like KOTC for chaotic outsiders.

Some people forget that when Turbine adds a buff to your class (adding Ninja Spy) it's not a nerf. No one is forcing anyone to take anything.

[Dim_Mak]

Hey Anthios!
I didn't mean to offend you and your build.
It is jsut how the things are.
The attack speed is not as it used to be before.
Dmg output is not as it used to be before.
Everything is slower now
I am still enjoying this build and not planing to quit or stop playing it.
It is still in my top 3 fav builds that i am runnin now.
it is not your fault that it's been nerfed..it's how the things are...
Cheers

[Anthios888]

Hey Anthios!
I didn't mean to offend you and your build.
It is jsut how the things are.
The attack speed is not as it used to be before.
Dmg output is not as it used to be before.
Everything is slower now
I am still enjoying this build and not planing to quit or stop playing it.
It is still in my top 3 fav builds that i am runnin now.
it is not your fault that it's been nerfed..it's how the things are...
Cheers

I don't take it personally at all. I just tend to look at the facts. Attack speeds are slower, but every class is experiencing lower damage output than before -- not just monks and not just one build. There are threads full of rangers and barbarians and paladins and rogues all complaining about the same issues. If you don't enjoy playing a monk, I won't waste space convincing you they're better. I just feel that "this build is nerfed" is inaccurate, because the game changes affected everyone. Attack speeds feel really slow on my ranger, bard, and favored soul as well, and none of them can take out epic trash mobs nearly as fast as a good monk. We just have to get used to the new pace of attacks and optimize from there.

[grodon9999]

So, sorry you're not having fun. I played Rockan last night through epic house P quests, and although I definitely missed the extra attacks and stuns from weighted (how can you not), I was really happy with how fast I could still take monsters out when I landed stun on them.

What's your stunning-fist DC?

[Jamma]

I'll agree with the positive aspect of the changes in U5. My pure monk LR'd several months ago and started with an 8 Wis since I couldn't land a stun to save my butt. I LR'd back to Wis/Dex last night and ran VoN 1 and 2 epic. Where before I couldn't tell you that I ever landed a stun, this time, I was hard pressed to find a mob it didn't land on. A 42 DC on Fist and the lowered saves on epic mobs is HOT! Hmmm...this isn't all true I think...the trolls in Ready Room 1 have ridiculously high saves to Fist, as do the Hounds in VoN 2. And even with a base 8 Chr, I can still VERY reliably dance things in epic. I'm actually using my monk abilities now instead of just auto-attack/afking waiting for the weighted wraps to proc. I also see quite a few double strikes when I Smite, which is ~400 dmg (~200 for a regular hit), and a couple times I saw a triple Smite! I have a Pro from Evil ability buff which lasts 20 minutes, and Moment of Clarity had people in my group cheering! It only lasts 10 seconds, but now I'm spamming abilities like crazy! Between keeping Clarity up, I'm smiting and stunning...it's far better game play for me than it was...I'm very happy

The down side...I ended up missing out on tier 3 and 4 of 1/2ling cunning, so I'm doing 4 points less damage. I could always shift something around...but what. On a very small scale, Void Strike is making up for at least a tiny portion of that missing damage since I use it to keep Clarity up. That +5 to hit for the melee is worth it! I'm sure I could shift things around and LR this guy one more time to get it right...but I'm having a lot of fun at the moment, so it's going to wait.......at least a week

I'm holding out for Shintao III...where they just might let us bypass silver DR...

Excellent. An actual monk with the shintao pre. The burning question everyone asks and nobody answers: Does PfE act as a light move for the Healing Ki Finisher, allowing you to use healing Ki more often? This was reported as broken on Lammia, and never reported as fixed.

[Anthios888]

What's your stunning-fist DC?

This is on my 12 fighter / 8 monk Rockan incarnation. I had a DC 39 Stunning Blow last night with the gear I have (+1 tome, no LOTD, not using Yugoloth). I can squeeze out a few more points soon. For a while, my buffs and power surges ran out, and even at 34, I was knocking stuff flat more often than not.

I was really wishing I had the DC 44 to 45 Stunning Fist that the original build will have when I roll back to it eventually. The shorter cooldown on Stunning Fist is really awesome (plus they have access to earthwindfire).

[drromanelli]

So you wouldn't change the recommended stat split (34pt) if someone went dark path to take advantage of the ninjaspy sneak attack etc? Really, only difference being a redistribution of enhancement points.

Recap:
[34 point: 12 STR, 15 DEX, 14 CON, 8 INT, 18 WIS]
btw isn't there an unused point here? 16 DEX maybe?

[Anthios888]

So you wouldn't change the recommended stat split (34pt) if someone went dark path to take advantage of the ninjaspy sneak attack etc? Really, only difference being a redistribution of enhancement points.

Recap:
[34 point: 12 STR, 15 DEX, 14 CON, 8 INT, 18 WIS]
btw isn't there an unused point here? 16 DEX maybe?

the 15 was a mistake. You need 16+2 dex tome to get Ultimate Wind Stance. But otherwise, yeah, that looks perfect.

[koili]

What is the best way for a new player with 32p statbuild to allocate stats to minimize the amount of tomes required?

Edit: or alternatively, are there some feats that could be dropped in order to minimize the tomes needed for the build but still remain functional?

[Anthios888]

What is the best way for a new player with 32p statbuild to allocate stats to minimize the amount of tomes required?

Edit: or alternatively, are there some feats that could be dropped in order to minimize the tomes needed for the build but still remain functional?

Drop INT to 8, eliminating the need for a +1 INT tome.

You could raise DEX to 17 to eat a +1 DEX instead of +2, or all the way to 18 to be able to use Grandmaster Wind Stance without any additional tomes.

This is a build that requires very very few tomes, and none until levels 18+.

[koili]

Drop INT to 8, eliminating the need for a +1 INT tome.

You could raise DEX to 17 to eat a +1 DEX instead of +2, or all the way to 18 to be able to use Grandmaster Wind Stance without any additional tomes.

This is a build that requires very very few tomes, and none until levels 18+.

Thank you for the quick reply.

I was just concerned that I would have to get my hands on +1 str tome by level 6 because the build on OP says:
6 Power Attack (requires +1 str tome)

[HumanJHawkins]

Rockan Robin, Balance Adept [halfling 20 monk]

Hey Anthios,

Is there anything about DDO:EU Update 5 (or what you've learned since making this) that would cause you to do anything differently?

Nice build. I'm going to try a Monk based on it very soon.

Cheers!

[Anthios888]

Hey Anthios,

Is there anything about DDO:EU Update 5 (or what you've learned since making this) that would cause you to do anything differently?

Nice build. I'm going to try a Monk based on it very soon.

Cheers!

DDO:EU Update 5 has made me stick more closely to the original build concept because of the emphasis on stunning and DPS while maintaining a very nice armor class. I would likely still drop Combat Expertise to pick up an extra point of wisdom (unless I needed that feat for Shintao Monk).

I would also encourage people to try both Dark Monk and Light monk, because this build's high wisdom fits perfectly with Dark Monk's DC-based debuffs. Ninja Spy's extra 3d6 is pretty nice as well. Light monk will be easier to level and able to keep itself alive through more, in addition to granting party buffs. IMO it's up to the player's preference -- I'm not going to tell people how to spec their character when both give very nice benefits to themselves and the party.