Blasphemy Banish Re-entry

[lanthan]

Obviously, the goal of making a suggestion like this is that the risk would not be the same.

If your argument is that ToD part 3 is too hard because of banish then yes lowering the risk would be the goal. However if your argument is that banish is a bad mechanic then you need something to off set the change in risk in order to keep the difficulty of the raid the same.

As for arguments against the change if you leave the DC same you would likely reduce the time needed to kill horoth to 1/2 or 1/3 making part 3 trivial.

[Pyromaniac]

I'm really surprised that some of you think that you have to be an uber power gamer to get boots. Now if you need 10 pairs of boots, its going to take a while - but that's your choice to have 10 characters with perfect equipment.

2 parts (Iron/Keepsake) - from weapon shipment, drop all the time. AH value is currently down to maybe 1.5 mill gp.

Blood/Artifact are tougher, personally I pulled lots of artifacts, traded them for blood. These ingredients are also on the AH, so if you can't pull them, buy them and sell something else you pull a lot of. Prices dropping daily on the AH, so wait it out if you have to.

To me getting boots was much, much easier than some other things in the game such as chattering ring, DQ torc etc etc.

[78mackson]

/signed.

..and lol at alot of ppl.

Do you really, for real ask the raid-group if they got the boots in part 3.
If they say "no, I got no boots" would you feel comfortable with having em chasing orthons or just sit idle by ala reaver-raid and would you like to invite em back to your next TOD re-union?

eurmm.. no.

Would be better if there was a penalty-box and perhaps he throws the banishing-thinghy alot more then he currently does.

[Angelus_dead]

If your argument is that ToD part 3 is too hard because of banish then yes lowering the risk would be the goal. However if your argument is that banish is a bad mechanic then you need something to off set the change in risk in order to keep the difficulty of the raid the same.

If you scrolled up and read the text then you could know what my argument is.

I'm really surprised that some of you think that you have to be an uber power gamer to get boots.

In what way do you think that is relevant?

To me getting boots was much, much easier than some other things in the game such as chattering ring, DQ torc etc etc.

Is that supposed to be a joke? Have you tried counting up the number of quests where a Chattering Ring or Torc of Rayum-de is useful, compared to the places where you'd wear Boots of Anchoring?

[Twerpp]

Its a high level raid and they put an obstacle in it that we need to overcome somehow. I don't see it as a big thing farm out the boots or dont melee. Most people in that raid have many toons anyway and only your melee will need the boots.

[JOTMON]

I would like to see the boots get expanded capabilites such as permanent Freedom of Movement, Immunity to web, Immune to slippery surfaces, Immune to chains, Immune to encasement. that would make these boots useful in many other quests in this game. the side effect of being unable to be hasted is a good offsetting counterbalance.

As time goes on more people will have boots, in the early stages we struggled to get our key frontline people with boots. Our Bard, Rogue , casters and clerics had no boots so we made sure to stay away from the potential sphere of banishing. This worked unless Horoth broke and ran willy nilly around trying to catch my cleric ( I'm only little but apparently I can run fast... ~
...who knew empowered healing pulls aggro better than the intimidate/defender of sybris ?? ....

As we progress our we gather more ingredients for the boots and have most of our groups equipped with the boots still a few to go and.... yayy.... we do have an elite competion with no banishments/deaths/or pots used.. although I still haven't got my rings yet....

[Angelus_dead]

Problem: It is excessive for Horoth's Blasphemy banishment effect to not only remove a character from contributing to the fight against him, but also lock him out of looting the good chest.

It has just been announced that Horoth's range for Blasphemy banishment has been increased so it may threaten the entire party.

This makes it more important than ever that players who have been banished from the raid are allowed back in to loot. It can be kinda fun to crank up your Will save and face a couple 5% chances to get ejected from the fight... lucking through risks like that is a bit thrilling, and with good DPS he won't have time to cast Blasphemy much much. But those unbooted players who do fail the save should have a way to get back in and loot.

Here is the announcement of the increased Blasphemy range:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=206066

* Horoth has been taking opera lessons. It is recommended that non-tanks find Boots of Anchoring.

[Bunker]

It has just been announced that Horoth's range for Blasphemy banishment has been increased so it may threaten the entire party.

This makes it more important than ever that players who have been banished from the raid are allowed back in to loot. It can be kinda fun to crank up your Will save and face a couple 5% chances to get ejected from the fight... lucking through risks like that is a bit thrilling, and with good DPS he won't have time to cast Blasphemy much much. But those unbooted players who do fail the save should have a way to get back in and loot.

Here is the announcement of the increased Blasphemy range:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=206066

I personally am not for this. This does like you said, add the element of risk that is a bit thrilling. If you are banished, no loot for you. (and yes, i have been and yes i have lost out on loot in the past)

With the change to Blasphemy, I think that it is more important to slightly increase the availibility of boot ingredients. The boots are there as a tool. A tool available to any and all players that wish to be 100% immune to the Blasphemy attack.

Pure Iron and Devil Keepsake are easier to come by then the other 2 ingredients. Adding the availibility for Demon Blood and Mysterious Artifact to drop in more then 1 quest, perhaps drop in the other short quest Wrath of Flame, will help increase the speed at which a player can make thier boots.

If I can loot from the end chests when banished, why have boots in the game at all?

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Well for once I agree with you.


it could effectively take you out of the quest...without taking you out of the quest, and screwing you out of end loot.


They could even throw in something like the reaver where it might be possible to get you back in the action so to speak. Although I would settle for not missing out on end loot.


And enough people do not have the boots. And there are already enough groups that say "must have boots". Thus wil only increase with the next mod.

I think Banishment should be a valid fear in the game, and I do think it is kinda neat that people find themselves back in Stormreach.

But in this kinda game it is very harsh just because someone failed a save.

And player discrimination against those who do not have the right shoes is even harsher.

Edit: Actually I wish they would get rid of the stupid boots all together.

[Angelus_dead]

If I can loot from the end chests when banished, why have boots in the game at all?

To keep the probability of a successful TOD completion from sinking nearly down to zero. For a no-boots run to win would seem almost miraculous after the Blasphemy buff.

[Hendrik]

It has just been announced that Horoth's range for Blasphemy banishment has been increased so it may threaten the entire party.

This makes it more important than ever that players who have been banished from the raid are allowed back in to loot. It can be kinda fun to crank up your Will save and face a couple 5% chances to get ejected from the fight... lucking through risks like that is a bit thrilling, and with good DPS he won't have time to cast Blasphemy much much. But those unbooted players who do fail the save should have a way to get back in and loot.

Here is the announcement of the increased Blasphemy range:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=206066

This is a great change!!!

There needs to be the risk of no entry if Banished. What is the point of boots then if you just re-enter? All your change would do is let someone else do the work while people sit back and pike while in the box. Not contribute a thing to the fight while everyone else is and just loot after it is over.

What about MOBs we Banish? Gonna have them come back to the fight after sitting in the penalty box? I didn't think so...

[Kilarthia]

Just bring a monk.

[Sirea]

Just bring a monk.

Monks can't prevent Banishment, just the Stun that goes along with it.

[bobbryan2]

This is a great change!!!

There needs to be the risk of no entry if Banished. What is the point of boots then if you just re-enter? All your change would do is let someone else do the work while people sit back and pike while in the box. Not contribute a thing to the fight while everyone else is and just loot after it is over.

What is the point of boots... hmm.. I would say it's to prevent going into a penalty box. If the healers wind up in a penalty box, you just failed the quest. The risk is that the group must suffer on without you.

What about MOBs we Banish? Gonna have them come back to the fight after sitting in the penalty box? I didn't think so...

Mobs can prevent banish by deathward.... Not to mention they would only get out of the penalty box if the quest failed, so it's not even at all applicable.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

[Noctus]

Its very easy to get a set of boots. No real reason why every melee shouldn't have a pair at this point.

Let me answer with a picture:

[moorewr]

Having gotten serious about rinse/repeat for boot ingredients, I feel compelled to resurrect this thread.

Let me start with some affirmatives (shall I call them the Shade Catechism?):
Yes, it's an endgame raid. Yes it should be hard. Yes it is acceptable, I suppose, to hve healers etc praying they don't roll a one and make the whole raid fail. Yes the boot mechanic for everyone in the party can work, provided it is reasonable (from the player's perspective) to acquire boots.

That said, for most people I play with the balance is off, and in increasing num,bers they do not flag for or run the raid. Call them noobs if you wish. Either the penalty for banishment needs to be ameliorated or the drop rate for boot ingredients needs to go up.

I don't know what the rate is now, so I don't know how far below the curve I am, but I can say that repeating quests over and over on capped characters, opening dozens of end-chests for zero ingredients is not fun. It makes me want to shut down DDO and go watch 3D Coraline*, and that's not what I like to feel about this game.

* that's desperation for you - the 3D version gives me a migraine.

[Angelus_dead]

Having gotten serious about rinse/repeat for boot ingredients, I feel compelled to resurrect this thread.

Note that back when this thread was written, you could only be subject to banishment if you were in close range of Horoth, meaning you were also being hit with a stream of Meteor Swarms and related spells. But the new bigger Blasphemy also reaches characters who are not within the AOE of any other spells, meaning you can use a Mantle of the Worldshaper to absorb Blasphemy, without the Meteor Swarms eating up the charges.

I really don't understand why more people don't use that. For healers especially it is much better to remain moving instead of getting stunned; on several occasions I have been the only person moving after a Blasphemy and singlehandedly saved the raid attempt. It does feel a little bit silly to rely on a Threnal item in a level 20 raid, but it is incomprably easier to obtain than the boots (unless you don't have the adventure pack, I suppose).

The availability of the Mantle doesn't change the point of the suggestion, though: from a game design perspective, it is unfair for a character who spent the end fight banished to be rewarded less than one who spent it dead.

PS. I also hate clogging a bank slot on a raid-flagging item that I don't use anymore, but don't want to throw out because it was hard to get. But the real solution there is that it's past time to increase bank space.

[moorewr]

Note that back when this thread was written, you could only be subject to banishment if you were in close range of Horoth, meaning you were also being hit with a stream of Meteor Swarms and related spells. But the new bigger Blasphemy also reaches characters who are not within the AOE of any other spells, meaning you can use a Mantle of the Worldshaper to absorb Blasphemy, without the Meteor Swarms eating up the charges.

Yes.. I've primarily run my cleric and warchanter in there since the raid came out, and I use the mantle now. There's drawbacks, of course, as the cloak slot has a lot of other uses, and if you stray into enough other spell effects you'll be out of charges.

With care on a non-melee, however, five charges will often suffice to last long after other failure conditions have doomed a raid.

[Pyromaniac]

I view it as forced content - grind for the boots, or take a chance of being banished. The other possibility is that they want to force people to buy the mantle quest pack.

Personally I just don't run tower on 2 of my 5 toons that are bootless. If I'm not prepared for the quest properly, I'm not normally in there.

I'm not sure if less playing of DDO was what was intended, but it has that effect.