Remove Glancing Blows

[FluffyCalico]

No, because a real-time MMO based purely in DnD rules would suck.

Eye of the beholder 3 did not suck. All you need to do is make the 3 team mates the computer was controlling be other people and you have a 4 man party MMO of very much more DnD based DnD MMO. Would not be hard to code that game with upto date graphics and toss it into a MMO style.

[Chimaira]

No, because a real-time MMO based purely in DnD rules would suck.

Yes, it would suck if you let a bunch of monkeys design the game.

It's not hard at all to change a round into, say, 5 seconds. So a melee at BAB 5 or lower would have 1 attack every 5 seconds, mages need 5 seconds to cast a non-quickened spell, etc. This is all very basic stuff, yet this game completely failed to even balance that. Instead were stuck with a game that looks like an ex-WoW player pulled it out of his hat, mobs immune to everything except straight DPS, kobolds with 100s of HP and silly stuff like that. I'm not talking about putting every single spell and skill in the game so that it perfectly reflects PnP, certain things are actually limited by what's practical in a video game. Correct attack speed and spells per day and mob HP, however, is not such a thing.

Neverwinter Nights had it right, there were even PvP servers for that game and it was balanced for all classes. They did not need Spell Points, melees that attack twice as fast as archers or mobs with inflated HP and immunities to everything.

[dredre9987]

OP i've just got to say if this is such a problem for low lvls how come i don't have a problem with them? could it be that i actually try to use some kind of tactics instead of just running into mobs?

must say though you are one of the better trolls on the forum have fun in life or whatever it is you do

[wamjratl1]

[Show_me_the_Platinum]

OP i've just got to say if this is such a problem for low lvls how come i don't have a problem with them? could it be that i actually try to use some kind of tactics instead of just running into mobs?

must say though you are one of the better trolls on the forum have fun in life or whatever it is you do

When you have people who will follow tactics that works. The problem is 9 times out of 10 people just want to do speed runs on EVERYTHING (that is what the dungeon alert system was suppose to fix). So they want quick, that means forgetting tactics and just run up to things a beat on them.

[Aranticus]

When you have people who will follow tactics that works. The problem is 9 times out of 10 people just want to do speed runs on EVERYTHING (that is what the dungeon alert system was suppose to fix). So they want quick, that means forgetting tactics and just run up to things a beat on them.

then let them die and stay in your backpack? seriously, even when i'm zerging, grazing hits do not hurt the party much. there are alot of stuff at your disposal, its how you play and adjust

[SquelchHU]

Yes, it would suck if you let a bunch of monkeys design the game.

It's not hard at all to change a round into, say, 5 seconds. So a melee at BAB 5 or lower would have 1 attack every 5 seconds, mages need 5 seconds to cast a non-quickened spell, etc. This is all very basic stuff, yet this game completely failed to even balance that. Instead were stuck with a game that looks like an ex-WoW player pulled it out of his hat, mobs immune to everything except straight DPS, kobolds with 100s of HP and silly stuff like that. I'm not talking about putting every single spell and skill in the game so that it perfectly reflects PnP, certain things are actually limited by what's practical in a video game. Correct attack speed and spells per day and mob HP, however, is not such a thing.

Neverwinter Nights had it right, there were even PvP servers for that game and it was balanced for all classes. They did not need Spell Points, melees that attack twice as fast as archers or mobs with inflated HP and immunities to everything.

This game would then suck terribly. One attack per 5 seconds? That's slower than any other MMO, including WoW. Let's be honest here - the fast paced combat system is the only thing DDO has going for it. Without that it would just be a standard MMO, except many others have a lot more content, and are better designed and balanced.

To say NWN had it right at all is beyond laughable. Yes, novaing every encounter then spamming the rest button is so balanced. You didn't even see that in PnP, despite the fact you easily could.

About the only part you've gotten right is the bit about ranged attack speed. Though that has nothing to do with this subject.

[Show_me_the_Platinum]

then let them die and stay in your backpack? seriously, even when i'm zerging, grazing hits do not hurt the party much. there are alot of stuff at your disposal, its how you play and adjust

Fine, you know what debating people like you is pointless. Punish the many because of the mistakes of the few.

Someone can't build a character that can hit anything... put in grazing hits
Someone can't stand to spend more then 5 minutes on a quest... put in the dungeon alert system (This also removed a BONUS XP possibility from the game basically. Indigenous bonus. You know the bonus % if you complete a quest without killing 1 thing in the quest. I think it is like 15%)
Someone can't do something else... make a fix for it (Unless it's turning undead or helping caster's not decked out with Spell pen to have their spells go off at LEAST 5%)

I've NEVER had a problem where my characters need a change in the game system to make them playable. I've only had 1 build I was using hurt because of a change. That was a cleric sorc who was using both SP lines before they changed that. 1 build out of 39 on all of the servers had it's usefulness become lessened, not removed, because of a change in the system. Only losing less then 100 spell points because of it

People on this forum are so ignorant of thinking, using that brain of theirs, that they can't see past their own upturned noses: "I think you're laughable so the fact that others have been agreeing with you means nothing. We are just going to keep on insulting you and putting you down with insults and not bothering to give a STRONG or VALID argument because you are below us in the sophistication of playing a game."

NOT ONE PERSON during this whole time gave a GOOD reason that Grazing hits should be added. NOT ONE PERSON gave a GOOD reason as to why it should stay in. Everyone seems to agree that grazing hits is pointless as the damage it does is negligible, and the ONLY thing it does is increase the demand of Damage Reduction items, abilities, and spells.

And watch they'll either pick ONE thing out of this whole post to try and discredit the WHOLE post by, or bring up a BUGGED item I had received, or just post *facepalm* or something stupid like that. NOT a valid argument of why grazing hits should be KEPT in the game. By THEIR OWN WORDS they have said it is a pointless game mechanic and that it is so minor that you don't even need to think about it. THEN WHY FIGHT TO KEEP IT IN THE GAME

[Pwesiela]

Fine, you know what debating people like you is pointless. Punish the many because of the mistakes of the few.

Keeping this in here for the sake of completeness.

Someone can't build a character that can hit anything... put in grazing hits
Someone can't stand to spend more then 5 minutes on a quest... put in the dungeon alert system (This also removed a BONUS XP possibility from the game basically. Indigenous bonus. You know the bonus % if you complete a quest without killing 1 thing in the quest. I think it is like 15%)
Someone can't do something else... make a fix for it (Unless it's turning undead or helping caster's not decked out with Spell pen to have their spells go off at LEAST 5%)

Actually, Indigenous and Devious are both still in the system.

I've NEVER had a problem where my characters need a change in the game system to make them playable. I've only had 1 build I was using hurt because of a change. That was a cleric sorc who was using both SP lines before they changed that. 1 build out of 39 on all of the servers had it's usefulness become lessened, not removed, because of a change in the system. Only losing less then 100 spell points because of it

Actually, like you, I've only had 1 character seriously hurt by changes in the system. He was a wizard tempest. Yeah, it didn't work out post-tempest changes. Oh well.

People on this forum are so ignorant of thinking, using that brain of theirs, that they can't see past their own upturned noses: "I think you're laughable so the fact that others have been agreeing with you means nothing. We are just going to keep on insulting you and putting you down with insults and not bothering to give a STRONG or VALID argument because you are below us in the sophistication of playing a game."

Actually, many - if not most - of the people here have offered valid and strong arguments for the addition of grazing hits. You've chosen not to acknowledge them.

NOT ONE PERSON during this whole time gave a GOOD reason that Grazing hits should be added. NOT ONE PERSON gave a GOOD reason as to why it should stay in. Everyone seems to agree that grazing hits is pointless as the damage it does is negligible, and the ONLY thing it does is increase the demand of Damage Reduction items, abilities, and spells.

Reason #1 - Realistic. While we're in a fantasy game, it's simply realistic to take minimal damage on occasion. As stated earlier, hp can be considered your ability to keep fighting. The longer you fight, the worse off you're going to be. Armor absorbs the full brunt of the hit? Not really, you may be bruised underneath.

Reason #2 - Minimize frustration and boost "fun" factor. It was a pain in the butt to fight the House P vampire in olden days. His AC was beyond insane, and is still nuts for at level characters. It's not fun to swing at him for 30+ minutes and have him regen faster than the 5% of the time you can hit him. Same goes for TS, and any other high AC mob.

Reason #3 - Reintroduce risk. Yes. Your high AC tank can die. Watch yourself.

Reason #4 - Slow the escalation. My prior post still applies. With grazing hits, mob AC doesn't have to inflate as it has been. Mob to-hit bonuses don't have to be inflated as much as it has been.

Reason #5+ - reserved since I don't have the time right now to go through everything. 1-4 are sufficient for the purpose I've placed them here for.

And watch they'll either pick ONE thing out of this whole post to try and discredit the WHOLE post by, or bring up a BUGGED item I had received, or just post *facepalm* or something stupid like that. NOT a valid argument of why grazing hits should be KEPT in the game. By THEIR OWN WORDS they have said it is a pointless game mechanic and that it is so minor that you don't even need to think about it. THEN WHY FIGHT TO KEEP IT IN THE GAME

Actually, I've included your entire post. Including the first part that I felt no need to really include. I think the more accurate statement is: BY OUR OWN WORDS, we have said there is a reason for the implementation of the system, but that there is no reason to blast it as thoroughly and venomously as you have. It is not as damaging or as evil as you seem to feel that it is.

DR has always been a benefit. This is simply one more thing it's an advantage for.

[toughguyjoe]

Fine, you know what debating people like you is pointless. Punish the many because of the mistakes of the few.

Someone can't build a character that can hit anything... put in grazing hits
Someone can't stand to spend more then 5 minutes on a quest... put in the dungeon alert system (This also removed a BONUS XP possibility from the game basically. Indigenous bonus. You know the bonus % if you complete a quest without killing 1 thing in the quest. I think it is like 15%)
Someone can't do something else... make a fix for it (Unless it's turning undead or helping caster's not decked out with Spell pen to have their spells go off at LEAST 5%)

I've NEVER had a problem where my characters need a change in the game system to make them playable. I've only had 1 build I was using hurt because of a change. That was a cleric sorc who was using both SP lines before they changed that. 1 build out of 39 on all of the servers had it's usefulness become lessened, not removed, because of a change in the system. Only losing less then 100 spell points because of it

People on this forum are so ignorant of thinking, using that brain of theirs, that they can't see past their own upturned noses: "I think you're laughable so the fact that others have been agreeing with you means nothing. We are just going to keep on insulting you and putting you down with insults and not bothering to give a STRONG or VALID argument because you are below us in the sophistication of playing a game."

NOT ONE PERSON during this whole time gave a GOOD reason that Grazing hits should be added. NOT ONE PERSON gave a GOOD reason as to why it should stay in. Everyone seems to agree that grazing hits is pointless as the damage it does is negligible, and the ONLY thing it does is increase the demand of Damage Reduction items, abilities, and spells.

And watch they'll either pick ONE thing out of this whole post to try and discredit the WHOLE post by, or bring up a BUGGED item I had received, or just post *facepalm* or something stupid like that. NOT a valid argument of why grazing hits should be KEPT in the game. By THEIR OWN WORDS they have said it is a pointless game mechanic and that it is so minor that you don't even need to think about it. THEN WHY FIGHT TO KEEP IT IN THE GAME

No ne is "Fighting" to keep it in game. Its in game, and its staying. You cannot change the minds of the developers by yelling the word NERF!!!

I know you weren't listening up there when i made the argument that an AC of 85 to 90+ was unbalancing the game.

Remember the "Exploiter"? Every Shroud/Hound/VoD/ToD was chock full of these toons. Why? Because they were the easiest to get the amazing game breaking AC, and also UMD to make them so self sufficient and unbalanced.

UMD was "nerfed" so that it was harder but not impossible to keep your UMD at the levels you want it at certain times.

Grazing Hits were added to "nerf" AC builds. What did it do? It made them take a bit of damage. Now they are not so invulnerable and have to use resources or work with their party to get through things.

Is the sky falling Chicken Little? Not that i can see.


BTW:

*FACEPLAM*

Oh yeah, That "Bugged Item you recieved" Yeah, the one you claim to still have and refuse to show anyone? Yeah. Thats the one I thought you were talking about.

Figured since you brought both of those things up you would feel cheated if they weren't added to my post.

[Show_me_the_Platinum]

Keeping this in here for the sake of completeness.



Actually, Indigenous and Devious are both still in the system. They have EFFECTIVELY been removed from the game. Cause you have to kill at least 1 thing to keep the dungeon alert system from going off



Actually, like you, I've only had 1 character seriously hurt by changes in the system. He was a wizard tempest. Yeah, it didn't work out post-tempest changes. Oh well. I was the same thing with my sorc cleric. That was because people kept saying that I'm having a build nurfed by this



Actually, many - if not most - of the people here have offered valid and strong arguments for the addition of grazing hits. You've chosen not to acknowledge them. Yes they have, that AC builds needed to be nurfed



Reason #1 - Realistic. While we're in a fantasy game, it's simply realistic to take minimal damage on occasion. As stated earlier, hp can be considered your ability to keep fighting. The longer you fight, the worse off you're going to be. Armor absorbs the full brunt of the hit? Not really, you may be bruised underneath.#1 Don't bring realism into a fantasy game. Also want realism? How come a .45 pistol can't take out a M1A1 tank if you shot it enough? I mean it is unrealistic for something to not take damage if hit by something

Reason #2 - Minimize frustration and boost "fun" factor. It was a pain in the butt to fight the House P vampire in olden days. His AC was beyond insane, and is still nuts for at level characters. It's not fun to swing at him for 30+ minutes and have him regen faster than the 5% of the time you can hit him. Same goes for TS, and any other high AC mob. Minimize frustration fail. I know lots of people that refer to grazing hits as an Annoyance. Last time I checked something that annoys you CAUSES frustration. Also I actually would like to see a miss, then a grazing hit while attacking. Also maybe he had a high AC so that caster's could shine. I know it is pointless for a spell caster to be the start of the show. It HAS to be the fighters. I mean that's the solution to every encounter. Swing at it enough times till it does. Don't rely on anyone but MELEE

Reason #3 - Reintroduce risk. Yes. Your high AC tank can die. Watch yourself. Yes cause it was so hard for force missile, Chain Lightning, fire ball, cone of cold, delayed blast fireball, polar ray, and so many other spells to HIT AC builds

Reason #4 - Slow the escalation. My prior post still applies. With grazing hits, mob AC doesn't have to inflate as it has been. Mob to-hit bonuses don't have to be inflated as much as it has been. There might be an unhittable AC, but there is no such thing as a UNDAMAGEABLE monster. If fighter's can't hit it... caster's nuke it... see it's called strategy, but people don't want to follow it so they whined and complained until grazing hits was put in.

Reason #5+ - reserved since I don't have the time right now to go through everything. 1-4 are sufficient for the purpose I've placed them here for.



Actually, I've included your entire post. Including the first part that I felt no need to really include. I think the more accurate statement is: BY OUR OWN WORDS, we have said there is a reason for the implementation of the system, but that there is no reason to blast it as thoroughly and venomously as you have. It is not as damaging or as evil as you seem to feel that it is.

DR has always been a benefit. This is simply one more thing it's an advantage for.

No DR is now a requirement. Before it was optional

[Show_me_the_Platinum]

No ne is "Fighting" to keep it in game. Its in game, and its staying. You cannot change the minds of the developers by yelling the word NERF!!! Why people put it in the game by yelling "I QUIT"

I know you weren't listening up there when i made the argument that an AC of 85 to 90+ was unbalancing the game. And my game balancing idea was... "Spells that ignore AC"... wait those are already in the game

Remember the "Exploiter"? Every Shroud/Hound/VoD/ToD was chock full of these toons. Why? Because they were the easiest to get the amazing game breaking AC, and also UMD to make them so self sufficient and unbalanced.Yes know the solution to exploiter? Cross Class Penalties

UMD was "nerfed" so that it was harder but not impossible to keep your UMD at the levels you want it at certain times. I don't use UMD that often so I didn't even notice it was nerfed. Please explain this nurf to me

Grazing Hits were added to "nerf" AC builds. What did it do? It made them take a bit of damage. Now they are not so invulnerable and have to use resources or work with their party to get through things. You finally admit that grazing hits are a nerf to AC builds. I'm so proud you're making progress. Even though I see time and time again player's getting ridiculed for pulling out a sword and board by the TWF builds "You have a gimped build, get two weapon fighting and we'll talk."

Is the sky falling Chicken Little? Not that i can see.


BTW:

*FACEPLAM*I knew you couldn't resist

Oh yeah, That "Bugged Item you recieved" Yeah, the one you claim to still have and refuse to show anyone? Yeah. Thats the one I thought you were talking about. Sorry Risia was taken down so I can't access the character anymore. That was one of the reasons I COULDN'T show it on any of the servers.

Figured since you brought both of those things up you would feel cheated if they weren't added to my post.No but you did prove me right. I thank you for that

*facepalm*

[Pwesiela]

No DR is now a requirement. Before it was optional

Well, I'd love to intersperse my comments, but how you've quoted me makes it impossible. So:

It hasn't been effectively removed. Last night I ran a monastery of the scorpion and didn't kill One. Single. Thing. And I didn't have any dungeon alert either.

AC builds needing to be nerfed is a problem to be fixed, not the reason for the fix. There's a difference.

A pistol can take out a tank. You simply have to find a way to shoot the operator. Realism is a valid argument. Not everything in DDO is controlled exclusively and entirely by magic. In fact, you can say that an AC tank going up against a DPS tank is purely a function of realism.

It can be frustrating, it can not be frustrating. Depends on if you're looking at the benefits or detriments. Your choice.

Shield, evasion, twitch skills. Almost every spell can be overcome. And how much enjoyment would you have facing a mob that could only be killed in one way?

Fought Wisperdoom in TR recently? Or the catacombs?

DR is still optional. Most of my characters don't have it. They survive just fine. Requirement is something like hit points.

Edit for the post above: Your solution is spells ignoring AC. Great. What about those melee that don't cast spells?

[Show_me_the_Platinum]

Well, I'd love to intersperse my comments, but how you've quoted me makes it impossible. So: Sorry putting the post in individual quotes is a pain and I tried taking the easy way around it

It hasn't been effectively removed. Last night I ran a monastery of the scorpion and didn't kill One. Single. Thing. And I didn't have any dungeon alert either. Well that's on one quest. Now how about Stealthy repossession, or kobolds new ring leader (I know you have to kill at least 2 to complete the quest, but it is dorable) or Hayton's family tomb, or Misery's peek (I know it was mainly put in that because of the zerging, but there are other ways around it), or tangle root where all you have to do is run from the start to the end to get to the next quest (sure there were people exploiting it, but that's not the point)

AC builds needing to be nerfed is a problem to be fixed, not the reason for the fix. There's a difference. I don't see the problem with unhittable ACs. Cold touch, Burning hands, magic missile, shocking grasp. All of them will hit a level 20 AC build when cast by a level 1 caster. What's the problem?


A pistol can take out a tank. You simply have to find a way to shoot the operator. Realism is a valid argument. Not everything in DDO is controlled exclusively and entirely by magic. In fact, you can say that an AC tank going up against a DPS tank is purely a function of realism. What I'm saying is why should a Kobold in Water Works be able to hurt a level 20 character more then 5% of the time? Realism and Fantasy DO NOT MIX WELL. Like I said in an earlier post, we have characters who can life a TON over their heads with no problem, but not taking damage is to unrealistic. I would like to do that though. Have my character walking around holding an elephant over their head cause they can.

It can be frustrating, it can not be frustrating. Depends on if you're looking at the benefits or detriments. Your choice. Benefits 0 unless I'm playing a caster and want to go "LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME I'M UBER" and detriments getting hit 10-35% of the time by everything I come across... sotty I'm not seeing the benefits of grazing hits only the detriments

Shield, evasion, twitch skills. Almost every spell can be overcome. And how much enjoyment would you have facing a mob that could only be killed in one way? Actually no. Does evasion or high saves or shield work on shocking grasp? How about Chill Touch? Melf's Acid Arrow? Scorching Ray? Chain Missiles? Sleet Storm? Acid Rain? Fire Shield? Force Missiles? Ice Storm? Wall of Fire? Acid Fog? Shout? Greater Shout? Incendiary Cloud? Horrid Wilting? Polar Ray? There are probably some will and fort save for half spells I miss... cause evasion doesn't work on those. Only Reflex saves

Fought Wisperdoom in TR recently? Or the catacombs? Wisperdoom in TR is Unkillable because THEY MADE HER THAT WAY. You use to be able to kill Wisperdoom in TR, but they changed that

DR is still optional. Most of my characters don't have it. They survive just fine. Requirement is something like hit points. Yes, about as much as AC before stalwart defender. It was useful... just not much emphasis on it

Edit for the post above: Your solution is spells ignoring AC. Great. What about those melee that don't cast spells? Put some hard to reach casters in the quest... Also TACTICS on the monster's side. I mean some of them have an int of 20 and they still act like kobold Shamans in WW. as the level increases the tactics of the enemies do. How about a caster that surrounds themselves with melee types, that don't move. Forcing the melee's to deal with the melees while the caster is safe from getting into melee? Currently everyone runs at each other and there is very little strategy on either side.

There is one thing I would like to see put in. GIVE WORGS AND WINTER WOLVES LINES. They have the ability to speak common, but you wouldn't know it in DDO because they take on the same roles as mundane dogs

[toughguyjoe]

]I don't see the problem with unhittable ACs.

And we come to the Crux, of the Biscuit.

P.S: If you read my posts above I always thought that Grazing Hits made AC builds weaker. The word Nerf? Hardly applies. Bringing over powered AC builds more into line is hardly worth being called a Nerf. Its called Balancing.

Con damage not killing when it hits Zero, THAT is a Nerf.

also, you best quit while you're ahead with the whole "bugged item" thing and the reasons heaped on reasons why you couldn't show it. Or in this particular case quit while you are way, way behind.

[toughguyjoe]

There is one thing I would like to see put in. GIVE WORGS AND WINTER WOLVES LINES. They have the ability to speak common, but you wouldn't know it in DDO because they take on the same roles as mundane dogs

Pay attention to the "Say" channel when you're in tangleroot gorge. Though winterwolves have never spoken to me, Worgs have.

[Pwesiela]

Well that's on one quest. Now how about Stealthy repossession, or kobolds new ring leader (I know you have to kill at least 2 to complete the quest, but it is dorable) or Hayton's family tomb, or Misery's peek (I know it was mainly put in that because of the zerging, but there are other ways around it), or tangle root where all you have to do is run from the start to the end to get to the next quest (sure there were people exploiting it, but that's not the point)

Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. And yup. There are many quests that can be completed without getting DA and while still getting the non-kill bonus. You just haven't tried.

I don't see the problem with unhittable ACs. Cold touch, Burning hands, magic missile, shocking grasp. All of them will hit a level 20 AC build when cast by a level 1 caster. What's the problem?

You don't see the problem with melee. That's the problem. Get off the caster thing.

What I'm saying is why should a Kobold in Water Works be able to hurt a level 20 character more then 5% of the time? Realism and Fantasy DO NOT MIX WELL. Like I said in an earlier post, we have characters who can life a TON over their heads with no problem, but not taking damage is to unrealistic. I would like to do that though. Have my character walking around holding an elephant over their head cause they can.

Have you ever gotten mobbed in real life by a bunch of kids?

Benefits 0 unless I'm playing a caster and want to go "LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME I'M UBER" and detriments getting hit 10-35% of the time by everything I come across... sotty I'm not seeing the benefits of grazing hits only the detriments

Umm... Again. Get off the caster thing. Look at it from a melee perspective.

Actually no. Does evasion or high saves or shield work on shocking grasp? How about Chill Touch? Melf's Acid Arrow? Scorching Ray? Chain Missiles? Sleet Storm? Acid Rain? Fire Shield? Force Missiles? Ice Storm? Wall of Fire? Acid Fog? Shout? Greater Shout? Incendiary Cloud? Horrid Wilting? Polar Ray? There are probably some will and fort save for half spells I miss... cause evasion doesn't work on those. Only Reflex saves

OK. Melfs, scorching ray, acid rain, fire shield, ice storm, wall of fire, acid fog, incendiary cloud? Resists. Chain missiles, force missiles? Shield. Sleet storm? Freedom of Movement. Shouts? Resist and fort save. Polar ray? Twitch skills. Ice storm? Resists and minimal damage. Horrid wilting? Fort save for half.

Wisperdoom in TR is Unkillable because THEY MADE HER THAT WAY. You use to be able to kill Wisperdoom in TR, but they changed that

You just said an unbeatable monster doesn't exist. I just said they do.

Yes, about as much as AC before stalwart defender. It was useful... just not much emphasis on it

And there isn't as much emphasis on DR post grazing hits as you seem to think there is.

Put some hard to reach casters in the quest... Also TACTICS on the monster's side. I mean some of them have an int of 20 and they still act like kobold Shamans in WW. as the level increases the tactics of the enemies do. How about a caster that surrounds themselves with melee types, that don't move. Forcing the melee's to deal with the melees while the caster is safe from getting into melee? Currently everyone runs at each other and there is very little strategy on either side.

You really do like this caster thing, don't you. Grazing hits weren't implemented to deal with casters or in having casters deal with melee. It's a melee to melee thing.

There is one thing I would like to see put in. GIVE WORGS AND WINTER WOLVES LINES. They have the ability to speak common, but you wouldn't know it in DDO because they take on the same roles as mundane dogs

Worgs do speak. Winter wolves, while I've never seen them speak, are classified as magical beasts, giving them enough int to speak if they wanted. Guess they just don't have anything to say to us.

[Show_me_the_Platinum]

Yup. Yup. Yup. Yup. And yup. There are many quests that can be completed without getting DA and while still getting the non-kill bonus. You just haven't tried. Actually I got to dungeon alert red on Hayton's Family Tomb once I reached the end. First shrine got me green, second still green, third I was yellow. running into the fourth turned orange, then while I was running around I guess some of the sarcophagi were broken and a few more spawned cause right near completion it turned red... I still don't see how I could complete that quest without DA... the only way to beat stealthy repossession is sneaking now. You can't speed run it. I still fail to see how you do not see DA has changed some things



You don't see the problem with melee. That's the problem. Get off the caster thing. Melee is not suppose to be the end all be all of tactics. I believe that was what I was trying to say. Tell me 1 caster build that will dominate high end content (it will most likely be a one trick heightened spell pen pony)



Have you ever gotten mobbed in real life by a bunch of kids? In this (Modern Full Plate ) I don't think they could do much to me. Or regular full plate I believe I would be safe



Umm... Again. Get off the caster thing. Look at it from a melee perspective. Yes I am seeing it from their perspective "We don't want casters stealing our spot light"



OK. Melfs, scorching ray, acid rain, fire shield, ice storm, wall of fire, acid fog, incendiary cloud? Resists. Chain missiles, force missiles? Shield. Sleet storm? Freedom of Movement. Shouts? Resist and fort save. Polar ray? Twitch skills. Ice storm? Resists and minimal damage. Horrid wilting? Fort save for half. Energy Resistance=Damage Resistance, Saves=AC... are you not seeing the similarities?



You just said an unbeatable monster doesn't exist. I just said they do. Ok ONE Monster in the WHOLE game is unbeatable. Use the rule not the exception



And there isn't as much emphasis on DR post grazing hits as you seem to think there is. Ummm yes there is cause as people started earlier "Grazing hits are negated by DR." so the fact that was one the of most common responses to my comments I think that speaks for itself



You really do like this caster thing, don't you. Grazing hits weren't implemented to deal with casters or in having casters deal with melee. It's a melee to melee thing. Well I'm sorry I have a lot of frustration when my nuke caster got to high end... and I found myself handing out buffs and CC spells more then damage spells cause I was spending HUGE amounts of SP because the SR of normal difficulty monsters was 40+ and I didn't take any spell pen and I COULDN'T do damage, so I was forced to redo all my enhancements and swap feats out so I could be effective



Worgs do speak. Winter wolves, while I've never seen them speak, are classified as magical beasts, giving them enough int to speak if they wanted. Guess they just don't have anything to say to us.[/QUOTE] Read the Winter Wolf source book that's out. It gives quest ideas such as a pack of winter wolves approaching the adventurers with a quest to go into a town and rescue one of their young that had been captured. They have also been known to take humanoid young and raise them telling them lies and turning them against their race. They are evil for a reason in the Monster Manual and they have an int of 9 and speak common and giant. But this is off topic and it was mostly in there to lighten up the mood some. Though then again I would need to look up the stuff in the Eberron source book, cause... wait NM the devs go off the Player's hand book which isn't Eberron for the material they use

[Show_me_the_Platinum]

Here are some spells that CAN'T be Energy Resisted, CAN'T be saved against, and CAN'T be avoided

Nimbus of Light, Searing Light

No resist, no evasion
Inflict Light, Inflict Moderate, Inflict Serious, Inflict Critical, Inflict Light Mass, Inflict Moderate Mass, Inflict Serious Mass, Inflict Critical Mass, Harm, Deific Vengeance, Chaos Hammer, Holy Smite, Order's Wrath, Unholy Blight, Destruction (on save else death)

Though a cleric casting damage spells is not a good cleric. Their job is to heal and nothing else

I forgot to add this so here it is. Disclaimer: The above line commenting on the clerics casting damage spell is the stereotype of clerics. While there are some cleric spell damage dealers out there they fall under the same classification that the Battle Clerics are placed under, that the masses of players, I, and many of my friends, encountering many players of the "Clerics are heal bots and nothing else." mindset and those builds are often ridiculed for being something they are not, a healbot. Not responsible for the misquoting in signatures or other IDIOTS who will latter refer back to this comment, only to find this disclaimer added. Thread disclaimers have been known to cause cancer in the state of California, if you live in the state of California please do not read.

[toughguyjoe]

Here are some spells that CAN'T be Energy Resisted, CAN'T be saved against, and CAN'T be avoided

Nimbus of Light, Searing Light

No resist, no evasion
Inflict Light, Inflict Moderate, Inflict Serious, Inflict Critical, Inflict Light Mass, Inflict Moderate Mass, Inflict Serious Mass, Inflict Critical Mass, Harm, Deific Vengeance, Chaos Hammer, Holy Smite, Order's Wrath, Unholy Blight, Destruction (on save else death)

Ok so your idea is to put spells in play more often that can't be resisted. WOW. Thats a great idea since it effects the AC builds just as often as the non AC builds. Nice thinking. Or lack there of.

Though a cleric casting damage spells is not a good cleric. Their job is to heal and nothing else

Do you play this game?

Do you have a Cleric?

This is as laughable a thing to say as "I don't see a problem with unhittable AC"

My word. i literally LoL'd.