Nix the 'force folks into a party' stuff

[Azonalanthious]

I was frustrated to the point of almost deleting ddo this afternoon, so please understand that while this is probably going to come across as a bit of a rant, thats only because of my frustration. My goal is a serious suggestion/point, not to just let of steam. Anyways, the whole thing with puzzles that require a party has got to go. I understand its a party focused game, and I understand that finding a party isn't that hard. I party with most of my toons. But I've got one toon I'm trying to only solo with. Why? Because I like the challange and find it interesting. But until you run a solo only toon, it doesn't really register how much stuff there is that you just can't do, which is really frustrating.

My specific issue today was Tomb of the Shadow King. A level above the toon in question, a good tough fight for a solo, even on normal. Just what I was looking for. After a long battle, and having to duck out of the quest once to pick up another healing wand from my bank, I make it all the way through to the end... And find a pair of levers that you have to have a second party member to trigger. *beep* Annoying as all get out, particularly coming at the end of the quest, rather then at the begining, when, you know, I could have actually remembered it took two and had the benefit of another player all the way through. But hey, at least it only takes two, I can do it with a hireling, right? I get pounded til I manage to find a safe corner to recall, leave the adventure a second time (more xp penalty, sigh), run franticly through three maps to a hireling vendor, then franticly back to get there before the instance has reset. Every monster and its brother had respawned in the meantime, so I fight my way back through roughly a third of the creatures I had already killed (at least its not a linear so I didn't have to fight everyting), get back to the last room, get up the ladder, pull one lever while the hireling pulls the other... guess what, it takes three. Because there is no way to get the mummy to stand where he'll get caught in the light without a third person down there as bait. Otherwise he just follows to the base of the ladder you go up and stands there.

The whole mess costs me several times the loot I found, multiple deaths and several hours. I can live with that. Its the price of soloing, particularly above your level. Bit onlly if I could just finish the **** adventure! Moreover, its a paid module with 5 adventures. Two of them I now can't play with the character I bought it for since Tomb of the Shadow Lord also requires a party and as I said, I'm sticking to solo with that character. And the since the final adventure requires you complete all of the other four, I can't do it either, so over half the pack I paid for is now useless. I'm half-tempted to ask for my money back (but only half, since I will surely run it with alts in a party, and get my money's worth. Its still frustrating though.)

As I said earlier, I understand that its a party focused game, and I have no issue with that. But there are already huge benefits to partying - no one character can master all abilities and the buffs, healing, trapfinding, or dps of your allies is a great advantage. And even for the best character, many adventures are extremely tough to solo. There is already every reason in the world to party. So I don't see why there is a need to force players to party with in-adventure puzzles on top of everything else. It provides no useful benefit, and it provides a major negative for players like myself who happen to enjoy soloing sometimes.

So please, please, please, fix the adventures so they don't require a group (ideal would be that they recognize that only a single player is in them and adjust, but given the way instances and groups interact, I can understand that that wouldn't be workable). Or at the very least, don't add anymore as you continue to work on new items in the game.

Thanks.

[Lithic]

That quest is currently bugged (and has been reported as such for 15months, but nobody seems to care to fix it). You can easily kill the king where he spawns. At least, you can with a caster or cleric, not sure if melee weapons work.

Worst case, you summon a hireling and sit him on top to hit levers.


As for quests that are impossible even on normal to solo, there are very very few. Off the top of my head they are:

1) Tomb of the something heart (I forget which, probably burning). You need 2 people with hirelings, though a caster with flesh to stone can solo it easily enough.

2) Deleras tomb pt 2. A hireling may be enough to allow you to solo.

3) gladewatch outpost. Not necessarily impossible, but stupidly easy to fail while solo.

[Azonalanthious]

I didn't know about the bug and I'll try and I'll see if I can exploit it - Thanks. But the levers won't work. They are resetting, far enough apart that you can't reach the other before the first resets, and both have to be tiggered at the same time. You have to have two people on them to get them to work, which covers me and the hireling. Which still leaves the issue of needed bait to get him in the right spot.

I stand by my core point - there is no added benefit from forcing players to party via quest puzzles and there is a disadvantage and they should be removed.

[KillEveryone]

I like the party requirement.

It adds flavor. I think it is entertaining. They should still develop stuff for parties, not stop developing it all together. Maybe do a few quests for those soloists but I enjoy the party more.

If they can implement a system to scale a quest so that when only 1 person enters or require a hireling, then it can be completed by that one person, sure, I could go for that. But don't stop making quests that require more than 2 people.

I don't want to have to carry a backpack full of pots, wands and other gear besides what I already carry, as well as have to add skill points to other stuff that takes more than 2 points to get 1 level higher. I don't want to be a jack of all trades and a master of none. The party takes care of that.

If they stopped making party quests, I personally wouldn't see any reason to play a MMO. I might as well go play a FPS or other single person game. I come here because I have the chance to party with people and to work together to finish something, not rely on some computer.

I have to just disagree.

[enochiancub]

I agree that for you types who like to solo there should be more solo quests, but punishing others by removing party requirement quests is a little harsh no?

[DoctorWhofan]

Agreed Kill, so do I. It's an MMO, for goodness sakes!

[Azonalanthious]

I don't want to have to carry a backpack full of pots, wands and other gear besides what I already carry, as well as have to add skill points to other stuff that takes more than 2 points to get 1 level higher. I don't want to be a jack of all trades and a master of none. The party takes care of that.

Yup. And that is why you can and should party. Its a good reason and a strong encouragement to party. I'm assuming you party for most/all quests? Yet, in many quests, you don't have to be in a party to complete them - you party because of the reason you just stated. And to be clear, I'm not asking for them to do anything at all to make it easier to solo - just to be able to do the quest, if you put enough time and effort into it. So what is the point in adding something mandetory within the quest to make folks party above and beyond the existing reasons for them? For that matter, I've no real issue for their being optional content that requires a party to get, much like there are things you can't get without open locks or search or detect secret doors. But I strongly disapprove of any/all adventures that you cannot complete without a party.

[Azonalanthious]

I agree that for you types who like to solo there should be more solo quests, but punishing others by removing party requirement quests is a little harsh no?

I'm not even asking for a solo mode. I'm perfectly happy to run the quests as they are. I just want to be able to finish the quest without needed three people to push leverls at the same time or four people to stand on stones somewhere. Its a minor part of the quest that takes three seconds to do, everything else you can do by yourself, and you can't finish the darn thing because of those 3 seconds.

[enochiancub]

I'm not even asking for a solo mode. I'm perfectly happy to run the quests as they are. I just want to be able to finish the quest without needed three people to push leverls at the same time or four people to stand on stones somewhere. Its a minor part of the quest that takes three seconds to do, everything else you can do by yourself, and you can't finish the darn thing because of those 3 seconds.

I see what you're saying, however there...nevermind not even worth it. I hope they fix this senseless grouping for you, enjoy.

[GreenGurgler]

I agree that for you types who like to solo there should be more solo quests, but punishing others by removing party requirement quests is a little harsh no?

Amen to that.

This is a party centered game and always has been. As such, there are certain things you will be unable to do solo.
Dont like it or cant finish it solo?
Dont run it.
Run other quests that you can solo.

Cold, harsh but cut and dry. Welcome to DnD. This has been said so many times its silly. DnD is a party game and always has been. Sure there are times a player and DM hooked up for the rare solo quest but it was a fraction of the core idea: Group play.

DDO is the same way. It is set up to primarily be a group game with a fraction of it dedicated to solo. In a group based game, a solo player should not expect to be able to solo everything.

Do you play racing games and ask for there to be levels/tracks that you have to walk instead? Or a fighting game that has a level where you have to negotiate peace instead? The majority would say dont waste the time. This is no different.

Enjoy what you can solo, stop asking to screw the rest of us. Alot of those things you dont like that restrict solo play, make the basic boring way of doing quests (in DDO and all other games) alot more interesting and varied. These vary mechanics help make things more enjoyable and interesting to the party play.

Sorry, we do not agree at all. (broken mechanic or not).

[GeneralDiomedes]

I understand your frustration, but I would do some forum and internet research beforehand, and be prepared for some trial and error. Hell, send me a PM if you have questions as I've done my share of soloing (including this one).

Again keep it in perspective - you had trouble with ONE quest. You are going to need more patience than you have shown thus far.

[Azonalanthious]

Amen to that.
Enjoy what you can solo, stop asking to screw the rest of us. Alot of those things you dont like that restrict solo play, make the basic boring way of doing quests (in DDO and all other games) alot more interesting and varied. These vary mechanics help make things more enjoyable and interesting to the party play.

Unless they've added something while I was gone, there isn't a single quest in the game that requires a rogue to complete. There is plenty of interesting content and varied content involving rogues and their exclusive skills, and they remain a very popular class. They haven't suffered in any way by the fact that quests can be completed without them. I am not/will not/ and would not ask for all party content to be removed. The only thing I have an issue with is the quests that cannot be completed because they require a party. Anything else is fair game.

And sorry, but I gotta tell you the 'accept that you are screwed because I don't want to be screwed instead' argument doesn't carry a lot of weight. If you like partying, making things doable by a solo won't stop you from partying in any way, shape, or form. The reverse doesn't hold true.

[sephiroth1084]

Split-party situations are a staple of nearly all sorts of gaming. You have in in Final Fantasy, many D&D games (paper or electronic), etc... It had a different element to a quest, requiring players to work in ways they aren't necessarily used to, developing different tactics, etc...

The game is ultimately about grouping. Yes, soloing is fun. Yes, it is frustrating to solo 90% of a difficult quest only to find that you cannot complete it without a second person.

Personally, I'd prefer they make hirelings a little more useful in this situation, by allowing you to assign the hireling to a particular lever/door/switch/etc... where they will remain and continue to target so that you can leave them and tell them to activate it from across the dungeon, and/or should put a message in the quest entrance panel stating that the quest requires X number of ppl to complete.

There are many more soloable quests out there than there are party-required ones.

[Azonalanthious]

Personally, I'd prefer they make hirelings a little more useful in this situation, by allowing you to assign the hireling to a particular lever/door/switch/etc... where they will remain and continue to target so that you can leave them and tell them to activate it from across the dungeon, and/or should put a message in the quest entrance panel stating that the quest requires X number of ppl to complete.

And I would be absolutely fine with the hireling solution. I've no issues with quests that require them to complete something (even when its annoying). The x people to complete, eh, I wouldn't be happy, happy. But I'd be far happier then I am now.

[Azonalanthious]

I understand your frustration, but I would do some forum and internet research beforehand, and be prepared for some trial and error. Hell, send me a PM if you have questions as I've done my share of soloing (including this one).

Again keep it in perspective - you had trouble with ONE quest. You are going to need more patience than you have shown thus far.

Sorry, mon-general, I missed this post earlier or I would have replies sooner. Your point about research is well founded, but in this case it would have revealed a bug in the quest that let me get around the issue, not addressed the issue itself. And I'm not frustrated with 1 quest, I'm frustrated with (scans though quest list) 6 so far, with more to come I'm sure. This isn't something new, in fact its something I've been annoyed with for a good two years. This afternoon just got me frustrated enough to take the time to post something. I'm normally fairly quiet on the boards.

[Thrudh]

I was frustrated to the point of almost deleting ddo this afternoon, so please understand that while this is probably going to come across as a bit of a rant, thats only because of my frustration. My goal is a serious suggestion/point, not to just let of steam. Anyways, the whole thing with puzzles that require a party has got to go. I understand its a party focused game, and I understand that finding a party isn't that hard. I party with most of my toons. But I've got one toon I'm trying to only solo with. Why? Because I like the challange and find it interesting. But until you run a solo only toon, it doesn't really register how much stuff there is that you just can't do, which is really frustrating.

My specific issue today was Tomb of the Shadow King. A level above the toon in question, a good tough fight for a solo, even on normal. Just what I was looking for. After a long battle, and having to duck out of the quest once to pick up another healing wand from my bank, I make it all the way through to the end... And find a pair of levers that you have to have a second party member to trigger. *beep* Annoying as all get out, particularly coming at the end of the quest, rather then at the begining, when, you know, I could have actually remembered it took two and had the benefit of another player all the way through. But hey, at least it only takes two, I can do it with a hireling, right? I get pounded til I manage to find a safe corner to recall, leave the adventure a second time (more xp penalty, sigh), run franticly through three maps to a hireling vendor, then franticly back to get there before the instance has reset. Every monster and its brother had respawned in the meantime, so I fight my way back through roughly a third of the creatures I had already killed (at least its not a linear so I didn't have to fight everyting), get back to the last room, get up the ladder, pull one lever while the hireling pulls the other... guess what, it takes three. Because there is no way to get the mummy to stand where he'll get caught in the light without a third person down there as bait. Otherwise he just follows to the base of the ladder you go up and stands there.

The whole mess costs me several times the loot I found, multiple deaths and several hours. I can live with that. Its the price of soloing, particularly above your level. Bit onlly if I could just finish the **** adventure! Moreover, its a paid module with 5 adventures. Two of them I now can't play with the character I bought it for since Tomb of the Shadow Lord also requires a party and as I said, I'm sticking to solo with that character. And the since the final adventure requires you complete all of the other four, I can't do it either, so over half the pack I paid for is now useless. I'm half-tempted to ask for my money back (but only half, since I will surely run it with alts in a party, and get my money's worth. Its still frustrating though.)

As I said earlier, I understand that its a party focused game, and I have no issue with that. But there are already huge benefits to partying - no one character can master all abilities and the buffs, healing, trapfinding, or dps of your allies is a great advantage. And even for the best character, many adventures are extremely tough to solo. There is already every reason in the world to party. So I don't see why there is a need to force players to party with in-adventure puzzles on top of everything else. It provides no useful benefit, and it provides a major negative for players like myself who happen to enjoy soloing sometimes.

So please, please, please, fix the adventures so they don't require a group (ideal would be that they recognize that only a single player is in them and adjust, but given the way instances and groups interact, I can understand that that wouldn't be workable). Or at the very least, don't add anymore as you continue to work on new items in the game.

Thanks.

Good post OP

[abull74]

Sooooo, how many times do we have to see this?

When was the last time you saw/heard of a DM sitting in a room by himself playing D&D?
Why are there so many idiots out there that dont understand that D&D is a group based game. OH, I know you said that you knew this...but do you? Realy? How can you say you know this and yet still be here whining about not being able to solo?

Seriously, people.....if you are soooo stuck on soloing a game, go to, or back to WoW. And if you can't, because it is not F2P....go get Diablo 2 and solo till your heart is content.

But, whatever you do.....just leave DDO and stop the whining. Eventually you people will, if given your way, turn this game into every other MMO out there. Where you can lvl up to max without ever talking to another person in game.

What fun would it be to sit at the table all alone roll your own dice, tell your own story, disarm your own traps, and play D&D all on your own?

You people just make me sick. You are trying to ruin a great game with your WoW attitudes. WHAAAH, I want to solo everything, WHAAAH!!

Just leave the game..........It's not for you!!


I AM THE FPOON!!!

[Graypaws]

I agree that for you types who like to solo there should be more solo quests, but punishing others by removing party requirement quests is a little harsh no?

I have to ask, what the OP mentioned would punish you how? As to the MMO argument, it doesn't hold water. I wouldnt want the difficulty of DDO lessened any further, but the blocks thrown in to stop soloing (two or more levers at once) should either be removed or have a work around. At the very least they should say something at the very beginning of the quest (This request REQUIRES 2 players, or whichever number it needs). I work very odd hours and have other RL limitations that require me to only be able to play in spurts or odd times. Add in the fact that I made the mistake of reading these forums, and I dont want to join groups. Not because of the "Noobs", because of alot of the elitist attitudes, I dont know quests by name yet or where each is, and that would **** people off.

edit: The above post sorta drives home what I'm saying too.

[Memnir]

There is already an abundance of quests you can complete 100% solo in this game. However, I hope they do not go back and retrofit every single quest in the game to be so. If you want to solo instead of group - cool. It's a good challenge, and I do the same a lot of the time.

However, there should always be quests that requires a group to complete. This is a grouping game, after all.

If you want to solo, please do. But, to ask that each and every quest be modified to remove the intended, and perfectly reasonable in an MMO in my opinion, game mechanics where a group is needed in certain quests... well, that's just silly. Stick to the quests you can do by yourself when you want to be by yourself - and either skip the ones that require company to complete. Or, do what many others have done before you and find a way to solo it anyways.


/not signed

[Graypaws]

Looks like DDO isn't for you either Graypaws!! CYA...glad I never met ya whiny a$$ in game!!


I AM THE FPOON!!!

LOL, someone is full of themselves. Never said I was leaving, and you have no idea what is for me and what isnt. You are however the kind of ******bag that turns people away from the forums and possibly grouping. So we can agree on one thing, both of us are happy to have not grouped with the other.