Render: 2 Monk/6 Ranger/12 Paladin

[Creeper]

Render
2 monk/6 ranger/12 paladin
Tempest I/Knight of the Chalice II
Halfling
32 pt

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.08
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(12 Paladin \ 2 Monk \ 6 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 244
Spell Points: 324 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 23
Reflex: 24
Will: 18

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    24
Dexterity            16                    24
Constitution         11                    14
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               13                    18
Charisma             13                    16

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    17
Bluff                 1                     5
Concentration         0                     2
Diplomacy             1                     3
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                1                     3
Heal                  1                    13
Hide                  3                     9
Intimidate            1                     3
Jump                  6                    20
Listen                1                     6
Move Silently         3                     9
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                  1                     4
Swim                  2                     7
Tumble                n/a                   8
Use Magic Device      3                    14

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Mobility


Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing


Level 4 (Ranger)


Level 5 (Ranger)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Healing


Level 16 (Paladin)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Healing


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use II
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use III
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use IV
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II

Strengths: High saves, Decent armor, Decent damage, Significant burst damage via Smites and Divine sacrifice II (I <3 this enhancement) These also allow for a sometimes crude way to draw agro without having spent points in intimidate, High healing output via LOH/Unyielding Sov/Heal Dragonmarks/Heal scrolls, Evasion, Tempest I, Manyshot, Potentially great solo build

Weaknesses: Just under 40 UMD, No Khopesh, No meta-magics

This build will also work well as a Human (extra feat/healing enhancements) or Elf (rapier damage). The reason I took Halfling was primarily for the Dragonmarks. They are on separate timers than scrolls/wands/spells and are more reliable. The sneak attack bonus is also nice.
This equates to a large amount of near-instant emergency healing when you also take LOH and Unyielding Sov. into consideration.



Stats:
15 +6 item +4 tome +2 size (ram‘s might) +5 level = 32 strength (+11 mod)
16 +6 item +4 tome +2 Halfling dex +2 ranger dex = 30 dexterity (+10 mod)
11 +6 item +3 tome = 20 constitution (+5 mod)
8
13 +6 item +4 tome +1 monk = 24 wisdom (+7 mod)
13 +6 item +3 tome = 22 charisma (+6 mod)

10 base
1 halfling
1 dodge
10 dex
7 wis
4 aura
2 tempest
1 ritual
4 insight
4 icy raim
8 armor
5 deflection
3 chattering
60 unbuffed

3 bs pot
2 shield (4 - 2 = +2 from tempest)
1 haste
3 pally boost (situational)
1 favored (situational)
2 defensive fighting (situational)
72 self buffed

2 recitation
4 bard
2 additional aura bonus
+2 barkskin (max spell 5 - 3 potion = +2)
82 fully buffed

UMD
11 base UMD
6 charisma
4 greater hero
5 item (6 fingered gloves)
2 item (head of good fortune)
6 item (shroud charisma skill goggles)
2 boost
36 max UMD

Damage bonuses
11 str
5 power attack
2 size (ram’s might)
3 luck (divine power)
21

Situational Damage Bonuses
4 sneak attack (Halfling Guile)
4 divine might
2d6 vs. Evil Outsiders
+6 favored enemy
Divine Sacrifice II (7d6 +1 crit multiplier)
8 Smite evils


Saves
Base
20 +3 from stat item +5 resistance +6 charisma +4 gh = 38 fort
21 +3 from stat item +5 resistance +6 charisma +4 gh = 39 ref
15 +3 from stat item +5 resistance +6 charisma +4 gh = 33 will
(+3 saves vs. Evil Outsiders)


Healing Ability
Full Halfling Dragon marks (5 heals/6 cure serious/7 cure light)
4 Lay on Hands
Unyielding Sovereignty
80% chance to activate heal scroll and cure serious wands for topping off after fights
Raise Dead scrolls

This build is open to a great deal of customization. You can trade the Dragonmarks for Maximize, Khopesh prof., or Extend. Perhaps even take skill focus: UMD if you would rather rely on scrolls. It all depends on how you like your healing. Feel free to “adjust” in any way to your particular play-style.

[Jonny_D]

nice build. I have a similar tempest pally 12 rogue 2 (ce instead of high wisdom). The problem I find with mine is that his AC/saves isnt quite high enough (basically if someone casts rage on you, you slip below the "relative safe threshhold") to mitigate the low hp. I would make sure you get any and every possible addition to hp you can find. The healing dragon marks are nice and the decent UMD heal scrolls are viable, but expensive post combat, definately will work for soloing normal content/wilderness area's. 3 +4 tomes is kind of steep at this point ( I ruin 1-3 tod's every night and havent seen a +4 drop yet)

Whats your optimal gear load out?

[Creeper]

nice build. I have a similar tempest pally 12 rogue 2 (ce instead of high wisdom). The problem I find with mine is that his AC/saves isnt quite high enough (basically if someone casts rage on you, you slip below the "relative safe threshhold") to mitigate the low hp. I would make sure you get any and every possible addition to hp you can find. The healing dragon marks are nice and the decent UMD heal scrolls are viable, but expensive post combat, definately will work for soloing normal content/wilderness area's. 3 +4 tomes is kind of steep at this point ( I ruin 1-3 tod's every night and havent seen a +4 drop yet)

Whats your optimal gear load out?

Thanks!

Luckily the +4 tomes aren't actually needed for prereqs or anything. A set of +2's will get you an even number.

I debated for a long time if I should just go with 18 paladin/2 monk. Zeal can replace Tempest and I would get a second tier of PRE. I would also loose all ranged ability and ram's might. My ranger dex too. Maybe when they add on Holy Avenger it might be worth it. Plus going paladin gives me two more short duration buffs I would have to keep up; shield and zeal.

I have also been working on a human with the same split but going Hunter of the Dead instead of KotC. I really like the passive bonuses. 50% additional healing on a human also - another build worth real consideration.


I haven't spent too much time thinking about it, but for ideal equipment i'd probably go with something like:
Mineral Rapiers +4 insight and +2 wisdom
Icy Raimients/DT robe
+5 prot cloak or green steel w/ radiance guard/saves
+8 armor bracers
Minos Legens
Tharne’s goggles/Greensteel for UMD
Eye for saves/bloodstone for dps
Chattering ring
kyosho’s ring
Titan Belt (str)
Shintao cord
Greensteel gloves (dex and hps maybe)
Madstone Boots

[transtemporal]

Its a very interesting build creeper. I like it a lot. Even without doing the numbers, it has some pretty decent dps potential.

I'm playing around with same level split and PrE's, but maybe drow for early DMII access and weapon finese. I know right - drow, ewww. But if its one build I can think of that actually has good synergy with drow, it might be this one.

[Creeper]

Its a very interesting build creeper. I like it a lot. Even without doing the numbers, it has some pretty decent dps potential.

I'm playing around with same level split and PrE's, but maybe drow for early DMII access and weapon finese. I know right - drow, ewww. But if its one build I can think of that actually has good synergy with drow, it might be this one.

Yeah, this will work good as Drow or Elf, also as weapon finesse. All the damage buffs that paladin/ranger split yields really shines on a finesse build. Add on another +2 with rapiers and you will be doing crazy damage. Either Elf or Drow will work. As 32 pt Elf you will still be able to reach the same level of Charisma.

The question is: How much str-based dps are you willing to give up for how much AC? I wouldn't start it with less than 14 str which puts you around 18 dex at start-up then +5 points at levels, vs 16 at start of a str based. You are looking at a max of four extra points of AC. That's a HUGE deal, but... is it worth it?

It probaly is... espically if you already have a nice selection of rapiers. This build does enough damage even with the -4 str. You will be drawing a lot of aggro. The AC will help, and str based damage equates to only 0.5x damage to off hand. Comparing that to all these other buffs that work 100% on off-hand damage mod, and i'd say you really aren't giving up too much by going finesse.

[jmonty]

hmm.. i think i'd rather have the 2 extra levels of pally instead of monk, for zeal--if the attack speed stacks.

[Creeper]

hmm.. i think i'd rather have the 2 extra levels of pally instead of monk, for zeal--if the attack speed stacks.

It does stack but Zeal is very short duration at level 14.

I don't think the extra 10% speed boost is worth losing evasion and wisdom based ac - but that is just my opinion. Personally, I would never even make a build without evasion.

The 6 ranger/14 paladin is a viable DPS build, but instead of 14 paladin I would recommend taking 2 rogue (2/6/12). This way you get rogue haste boost (Better than Zeal IMO if you don't have room for extend), evasion, and potential 1d6 +3 sneak attack, not to mention UMD as a class skill.

[Creeper]

Something like this:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.08
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(12 Paladin \ 2 Rogue \ 6 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 260
Spell Points: 144 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 28
Will: 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    16
Dexterity            18                    30
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             14                    18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 16
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 16
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 16
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 16
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 16
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               8                    14
Bluff                 2                     6
Concentration         4                    10
Diplomacy             2                     4
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle                6                     8
Heal                  1                     1
Hide                  4                    12
Intimidate            2                     4
Jump                  6                    11
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         4                    12
Open Lock             8                    14
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                     0
Search               -1                     0
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  2                     3
Tumble                n/a                  n/a
Use Magic Device      6                    27

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge


Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse


Level 4 (Ranger)


Level 5 (Ranger)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Selected) Mobility


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Paladin)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 10 (Paladin)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Enhancement: Paladin Redemption I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II

[Geonis]

why blow 3 feats and 6 levels to get something that 2 more levels of Pally will get you?

14 Pally gets you Zeal (+10% attack speed).

Also, you can then get 18 levels of Pally (more Smite damage and Exalted Smite 4) and a tier 3 PrE.

[Creeper]

why blow 3 feats and 6 levels to get something that 2 more levels of Pally will get you?

14 Pally gets you Zeal (+10% attack speed).

Also, you can then get 18 levels of Pally (more Smite damage and Exalted Smite 4) and a tier 3 PrE.

Please consider what the six levels of ranger give you: Much more than three feats. Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Many Shot, Bow Strength, Rapid Shot, Die Hard, Favored Enemy I and II.

Then think about Spells: Ram's Might, Longstrider, Jump

Then enhancements: Ranger Dex II, Skill Boost, Sprint Boost, Favored Damage, Tempest.

Furthermore, with Tempest I vs. Zeal - you don't have to cast Tempest every half-minute, you can also be forgiven for not using a shield clicky every minute, because you only gain +2 armor.

In my opinion - based on the above - the six levels of Ranger VASTLY out-weigh the value of six additional paladin levels.

[Geonis]

Please consider what the six levels of ranger give you: Much more than three feats. Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Many Shot, Bow Strength, Rapid Shot, Die Hard, Favored Enemy I and II.

Then think about Spells: Ram's Might, Longstrider, Jump

Then enhancements: Ranger Dex II, Skill Boost, Sprint Boost, Favored Damage, Tempest.

Furthermore, with Tempest I vs. Zeal - you don't have to cast Tempest every minute, you can also be forgiven for not using a shield clicky every minute, because you only gain +2 armor.

In my opinion - based on the above - the six levels of Ranger VASTLY out-weigh the value of six additional paladin levels.

Feats- You spend 3 to get 2 (that matter at least). FE is nice, but you get pretty much the same with the tier 3 of KoC.

Spells - You get 2. Rams Might and whatever. Rams Might is nice, but gotta recast every 6 minutes, and for 1 point of damage on your main hand, meh. Longstrider and Jump are truly a waste of effort to cast, if you dont have 30% striders, then maybe Longstrider is worth casting.

Enhancements- Dex, meh. Skill boost, for what? UMD? My Pally/Monk has a 30+ UMD, boosting for +2, meh. Sprin boost, this is the only one I would actually like to have, but not worth the loss of Pally abilities. FE damage is covered with the tier 3 PrE.

With the feat you gain (dropping Dodge, Mobility, Spring Atk and picking up TWF/ITWF), get Extend and your Zeal lasts 4+ mins not 1 min.

Edit- And if AC matters (necessitating the Shield clicky for the Pally), then the loss of 2 points matters.

[Creeper]

Feats- You spend 3 to get 2 (that matter at least). FE is nice, but you get pretty much the same with the tier 3 of KoC.

Spells - You get 2. Rams Might and whatever. Rams Might is nice, but gotta recast every 6 minutes, and for 1 point of damage on your main hand, meh. Longstrider and Jump are truly a waste of effort to cast, if you dont have 30% striders, then maybe Longstrider is worth casting.

Enhancements- Dex, meh. Skill boost, for what? UMD? My Pally/Monk has a 30+ UMD, boosting for +2, meh. Sprin boost, this is the only one I would actually like to have, but not worth the loss of Pally abilities. FE damage is covered with the tier 3 PrE.

With the feat you gain (dropping Dodge, Mobility, Spring Atk and picking up TWF/ITWF), get Extend and your Zeal lasts 4+ mins not 1 min.

Edit- And if AC matters (necessitating the Shield clicky for the Pally), then the loss of 2 points matters.

So what are you gaining as six levels of Paladin? You just lost the extra point of aura AC from not having dodge, and another point from having less dex. By your own admission the extra tier of KotC is equal to Favored Enemy, although With Favored Enemy, the Ranger build will do the same damage against Evil Outsiders (2d6 vs 6 damage) and ANOTHER enemy. You also lose Ram's Might and all ranged viability.

Now you have Zeal instead of Tempest which is a downgrade because it costs time and mana to cast.

As Paladin you gain extra smite damage and two extra LOH. Is it worth it? Not in my opinion. My build is already OK on the Healing and has plenty of Smites. While your build has 30 UMD mine has 34, so you see the advantage to skill boost; it makes Heal scroll viable.

So, your build is different from mine. I am not saying that my build is better, I am only saying that I am NOT giving up three feats and six levels just for something a Paladin could already get, I am spending six levels and three feats on something that a Paladin COULDN'T get otherwise.

For me the trade is very much worth it. That is why this build has six levels of Ranger.

Edit: You lose another point of AC from not having Ranger Dex II.

[nicro]

You are losing a lot for skipping those 6 levels of paladin. Here's a short list:

Lay of Hands III
Bulwark of Good IV
Divine Might III
Smite Evil +1
Tier 3 PrC
Tier 3 PrC Set Bonuses
Exhalted Smite III
Exhalted Smite IV
Level 4 Spells
90 spell points

You need to have a very good reason to lose all of that.
Does your comparison of FE to Tier 3 PrC include the set bonuses?

[Creeper]

You are losing a lot for skipping those 6 levels of paladin. Here's a short list:

Lay of Hands III
Bulwark of Good IV
Divine Might III
Smite Evil +1
Tier 3 PrC
Tier 3 PrC Set Bonuses
Exhalted Smite III
Exhalted Smite IV
Level 4 Spells
90 spell points

You need to have a very good reason to lose all of that.
Does your comparison of FE to Tier 3 PrC include the set bonuses?

No it doesn't include the set bonuses. Could you show me how you can fit all the enhancements you list into my build?

Even if I did go 18 paladin, I wouldn't have enough points for Exhalted Smite, Bulwark of Good, or Lay on Hands III in addition to the other paladin and halfling feats I have taken, according to my math. In particular, I am interested how you figure in Divine Might III, since I only have 16 Charisma.

Here is how I feel in regard to my build based on your list:
Lay of Hands III: Do not really need it. I have a silly amount of healing already.

Bulwark of Good IV: Even with spending the extra four enhancement points for this I get the same +1 armor from Ranger Dex II, not to mention I dont think you would have room for dodge feat on an 18 paladin.

Divine Might III: As mentioned before - not enough charisma for this.

Smite Evil +1: Not really worried about it.

Tier 3 PrC: Similar to FE.

Tier 3 PrC Set Bonuses: Not worried about this particular PRE set.

Exhalted Smite III: I don't even have enough points for I tier of this.

Exhalted Smite IV: Ditto

Level 4 Spells: Which of these do I actually need? None of them as far as I can tell. I already have the 10% from Tempest. Restoration would be nice but isn't really needed.

90 spell points: This would be nice too, but I would still rather have my free ranger feats.



Edit: I bet you would spend a lot more than 90 spell points trying to keep Zeal active.

[Jeromio]

Creeper, I really think you should go for it.

I've been playing with the same class distribution with a dorf during over a year and it's been tons of fun playing with that toon. It's a strength based build with nice AC, lots of HP and good DPS (dwarven axes with axe enhancements) plus decent selfhealing. He's also very good for solo playing.

It's about fun after all, so don't listen to the nay sayers.

Edit: Up until mod 9 my class distribution was monk 2/ranger 6/paladin 8.

[Creeper]

Creeper, I really think you should go for it.

I've been playing with the same class distribution with a dorf during over a year and it's been tons of fun playing with that toon. It's a strength based build with nice AC, lots of HP and good DPS (dwarven axes with axe enhancements) plus decent selfhealing. He's also very good for solo playing.

It's about fun after all, so don't listen to the nay sayers.

Edit: Up until mod 9 my class distribution was monk 2/ranger 6/paladin 8.

I already have one, rerolled from a 16/2 Paladin/Monk

[stazer]

very cool build man...

jsut a thought..how important is having a str of 32 if you are going for burst damage...would stat distribution be better served put into chr and go for high numbers that way? Maybe start with a ridiculous dex and build around weapon finesse feat...early game could be managed with gear (though this build would be HIGHLY gear dependent). I have never built a dex based toon and wonder what kind of AC and damage output a dex based weapon finessing halfling could come up with...fighting favored enemies..

[Creeper]

very cool build man...

jsut a thought..how important is having a str of 32 if you are going for burst damage...would stat distribution be better served put into chr and go for high numbers that way? Maybe start with a ridiculous dex and build around weapon finesse feat...early game could be managed with gear (though this build would be HIGHLY gear dependent). I have never built a dex based toon and wonder what kind of AC and damage output a dex based weapon finessing halfling could come up with...fighting favored enemies..

Having a high str isn't so important although I wouldn't build with any less than 14 str. Finesse works fine as I said earlier, but costs a feat, weapon selection, and some DPS. Is the -4 str based damage worth the extra 4 AC?

As I said in an earlier post; it probaly is. It all depends on what you wanna gear toward and what weapons you want to use.

[transtemporal]

The question is: How much str-based dps are you willing to give up for how much AC? I wouldn't start it with less than 14 str which puts you around 18 dex at start-up then +5 points at levels, vs 16 at start of a str based. You are looking at a max of four extra points of AC. That's a HUGE deal, but... is it worth it?

On a drow, yeah. Its inexpensive to get dex and cha, but expensive to get decent con (and hp in general) so I figure it might pay to focus on AC a bit for survivability.

For stats, I'm looking at (hopefully the point costs are correct, I'm just doing this from memory):

Str 14 (6pts) (6 item, 2 rams, 4 tome) = 26
Dex 16 (6pts) (5 lvl, 2 drow, 2 rgr, 6 item, 4 tome, 3 excpt crafted on morahs ring) = 38
Con 12 (6pts) (6 item, 3 tome, 3 except crafted on veriks ring) = 24
Int 10 (0pts) (meh, probably won't bother) = 10
Wis 14 (6pts) (1 monk, 6 item, 3 tome, 2 except on minII) = 26
Cha 14 (4pts) (3 pal, 6 item, 3 tome) = 26

+4 tomes str and dex are a pretty tall order so lets say these are two less: 24/36 respectively. I also didn't add yugoloth pots or rage.

It probaly is... espically if you already have a nice selection of rapiers.

I must admit, that was part of the decision process. It makes things a hell of a lot easier.

This build does enough damage even with the -4 str. You will be drawing a lot of aggro. The AC will help, and str based damage equates to only 0.5x damage to off hand. Comparing that to all these other buffs that work 100% on off-hand damage mod, and i'd say you really aren't giving up too much by going finesse.

I have a feeling if I did the numbers for str-based halfling/human/dorf khopesh, I might cry, but for now I'll go with drow. Lol.

[Junts]

It does stack but Zeal is very short duration at level 14.

I don't think the extra 10% speed boost is worth losing evasion and wisdom based ac - but that is just my opinion. Personally, I would never even make a build without evasion.

The 6 ranger/14 paladin is a viable DPS build, but instead of 14 paladin I would recommend taking 2 rogue (2/6/12). This way you get rogue haste boost (Better than Zeal IMO if you don't have room for extend), evasion, and potential 1d6 +3 sneak attack, not to mention UMD as a class skill.

evasion, while a great feat, is a lot less necessary at the present endgame.

Your build would be better at 14 pal / 4 ran than 12 / 6 .. keeping zeal up may cost you one feat (extend spell), but keeping tempest up costs 3. You'll get a much better character out of 14 paladin levels, and you can work in whatever else for those other 4 levels to maximize your dps potential. Zeal is straight up better than Tempest 1, since tempest 1 is only 2 shield ac, it does not replace the shield spell anyway. Extend also maximizes divine favor time, letting you use madstone boots, which are counterproductive if you have un-extended divine favors (3 hit 3 dam is better than madstone).

By the way, the KOTC set bonus for Knight of the Chalice 3 is the msot dps added by any tier 3 set bonus (a stacking 4d6) and you -should- worry about losing it.

an 18 pal /2 monk build will out-dps this build, hands down, straight away, to say nothing of having much, much more feat flexibility to work with.