Turbine run pug raids

[Club'in]

I totally understand this statement. If I had run raids on 5 alts and can do it with my eyes closed then I too wouldnt want any noobs messing up my runs. That is why it should be up to Turbine to ensure their customers are having a good time, not other players.

I think you're missing Gadget's attitude. He'll be glad to help. But he isn't gonna play puppetmaster for you, just guard your back as you stumble around in the dark.

[Aranticus]

No, I havent. It is good fun to do quests that you havent done before. I havent had any problems finding full noob 6 man teams to do quest. The problem is finding enough people to do noob friendly raids. People want minimal effort to get in and get their loot and get out.

I am sure there are a lot more people willing to go trial and error when a raid first comes out. You have a whole server of people willing to tough it out to get loot. Once that initial wave is done it gets harder to find the people to do a raid, much less people willing to help out the noobs.

I really dont see the downside of having someone at Turbine run some noob friendly raids. I am not asking that they spawn the loot directly into our inventories or make things easier than normal.

It isn't about the lack of people running the raid, it's about the lack of people wanting to learn the raid. Go ahead put up a lfm and stat that you are a first timer. You will be surprised that many players like you will join. There will even be vets willing to hop on to guide you if they are flagged. The main thing is someone gotta start it

he who waits never arrives

[lugoman]

It isn't about the lack of people running the raid, it's about the lack of people wanting to learn the raid. Go ahead put up a lfm and stat that you are a first timer. You will be surprised that many players like you will join. There will even be vets willing to hop on to guide you if they are flagged. The main thing is someone gotta start it

he who waits never arrives

And he who puts up lfm spends a long time doing rares while waiting for team to fill up all the while people dropping because it is taking to long. Maybe I am just playing at a bad time.

[Gadget2775]

I totally understand this statement. If I had run raids on 5 alts and can do it with my eyes closed then I too wouldnt want any noobs messing up my runs. That is why it should be up to Turbine to ensure their customers are having a good time, not other players.

No, you don't get it. Turbine shouldn't be leading Raids. Players should be playing them. It's players wanting others to do all the work for them without learning on their own that bothers me. My favorite days to play are when a Mod first hits and I get to explore the new content, figure out the puzzles , find the traps. It's less enjoyable for me when I loose out on that experience.

It has nothing to do with new players messing up the quest. It has everything to do with an unwillingness to do for oneself. As others have said, if there's a marker in the LFM saying new to quest it isn't going to drive me away. It's NEED GUIDE type messages that bothers me. That whole statement says "I'm too lazy try/learn for myself".

[Makar40]

The idea that Turbine should be leading raids because you dont wanna put forth the effort to help yourself is without a doubt one of the funnier things Ive read in an MMO forum. People arent running pug raids? No wai d00d! In most MMO's Ive been a part of (many), pug raids were the exception, not the rule. Most raids get done by guilds. People dont wanna waste hours of thier time with pugs that suck. Join a guild that runs raids, end of story.

[thegreatcthulhu]

The problem with this suggestion is that it is a result, caused by an even more subversive and sadly, difficult to address (or realize) problem.


... unfortunately, I have a post of my own to hammer out; thus I will save my long-winded comment for this particular thread, for later.

[lugoman]

No, you don't get it. Turbine shouldn't be leading Raids. Players should be playing them. It's players wanting others to do all the work for them without learning on their own that bothers me. My favorite days to play are when a Mod first hits and I get to explore the new content, figure out the puzzles , find the traps. It's less enjoyable for me when I loose out on that experience.

It has nothing to do with new players messing up the quest. It has everything to do with an unwillingness to do for oneself. As others have said, if there's a marker in the LFM saying new to quest it isn't going to drive me away. It's NEED GUIDE type messages that bothers me. That whole statement says "I'm too lazy try/learn for myself".

When the mod first hits, everyone is psyched up about new content and dying/failing is part of the fun. Three months later when the same person is running an alt through the content for the 20th time they arent so patient and will drop a team at the first mistake. Raids seem to be more complex and unforgiving than quests thus exasperating this problem. You may not be this type of player but there are enough of them out there that it is a problem for new players doing older content.

I dont see it as a laziness problem but a time problem. I dont care if a raid wipes a few times before it is finally completed. The problem is some people will drop at the first sign of trouble causing downtime while we wait to fill spot. I only have a limited time to play.

[lugoman]

The idea that Turbine should be leading raids because you dont wanna put forth the effort to help yourself is without a doubt one of the funnier things Ive read in an MMO forum. People arent running pug raids? No wai d00d! In most MMO's Ive been a part of (many), pug raids were the exception, not the rule. Most raids get done by guilds. People dont wanna waste hours of thier time with pugs that suck. Join a guild that runs raids, end of story.

I dont really get this type of post. Why do you care how I play the game? How are you harmed if someone from turbine runs a scheduled pug raid? You can still run your guild runs all day long if you want to. Because I am in a small guild of new players who dont have unlimited time to spend online, I shouldnt be allowed access to certain parts of the game? There is a reason why the game went f2p - it needed new players to continue. I would think keeping these new players in game and buying new content would be a top priority to vet players. If new players all quit at higher levels because they cant access content then all your work on all your toons will go down the tubes when DDO is canceled.

[Quikster]

And he who puts up lfm spends a long time doing rares while waiting for team to fill up all the while people dropping because it is taking to long. Maybe I am just playing at a bad time.

On the positive side, you wont be able to do rares in a raid group (unless you are doing them in the sub which i doubt) so you dont have to worry about that part


Seriously throw an lfm up and put, "First time" in it. Grab some popcorn, and wait for it to fill. Once you do it once or twice you will be a pro, and you wont have to worry bout it anymore.

[Cedwin]

You can always wait until you are a 2 or 3 levels higher than the raid, and then go back and 6 man it. You don't always have to have a full raid party to do the raids, unless you plan on a zerg-fest.

[lugoman]

On the positive side, you wont be able to do rares in a raid group (unless you are doing them in the sub which i doubt) so you dont have to worry about that part


Seriously throw an lfm up and put, "First time" in it. Grab some popcorn, and wait for it to fill. Once you do it once or twice you will be a pro, and you wont have to worry bout it anymore.

yes, that was trying to do the gianthold pre raid.

[Croix]

A few guildies and myself explored the Orchard of the Macrabe last night and had an absolute blast! Coming back after a 2+year break and seeing how big that explore area was with hidden bosses & quests there........... I was more than just pleasantly suprized.

My point is take your time. There is nothing more fun than getting with a group of friends and enjoying the unexpected ecstasy of hacking up new and improved monsters. Of course repeating quests is always fun too, especially with this game but the unknown factor has that extra thrill to it.

[ZexionII]

I totally understand this statement. If I had run raids on 5 alts and can do it with my eyes closed then I too wouldnt want any noobs messing up my runs. That is why it should be up to Turbine to ensure their customers are having a good time, not other players.

Man, you are missing his point completely. He doesn't mind "n00bs messing up his runs". He minds people being scared of taking initiative, sitting around like scared little babies waiting for their mommy to tell them what to do.

[lugoman]

Man, you are missing his point completely. He doesn't mind "n00bs messing up his runs". He minds people being scared of taking initiative, sitting around like scared little babies waiting for their mommy to tell them what to do.

Yes that is exactly what I meant in my original post. I wish my mommy was here to hold my hand while I play in case I start to cry.

I have played enough online games to know that the game base is always split into those who will lead and start groups and those who wont. The ones who wont out number the others by a pretty big margin. You can moan and demand they play a certain way or call them babies all you want, but if they cant play the game the way they want to they will just quit. It just seems like a good idea for turbine to help this group better enjoy the game.

[Gadget2775]

When the mod first hits, everyone is psyched up about new content and dying/failing is part of the fun. Three months later when the same person is running an alt through the content for the 20th time they arent so patient and will drop a team at the first mistake. Raids seem to be more complex and unforgiving than quests thus exasperating this problem. You may not be this type of player but there are enough of them out there that it is a problem for new players doing older content.

All I'm hearing is whining. I still go into Raids that wipe. None of them are a sure thing. The Reavers been out for ages, and a group I was in wiped not even a month ago. Not because anyone did anything wrong, but because the air elementals picked off the Clerics. Half the group dropped. Boo-frigin-who. We took the time to refill and push on.

That being said: Having Turbine lead the Raid won't solve anything.

• The first and most obvious problem is they should be designing and producing interesting content for the player base. At no time should they take away from their work load to babysit players.
• Secondly those same *&^@ who run off at the first sign of a problem are still going to run off when things go south. Any why wouldn't they go south? I mean heck you want to put 11 players who aren't willing to try for themselves in a Raid they haven't done before and you're think it'll work out fine? That none of them are gona mess it up and then drop because they just wasted xxx time?
• Third, when the Raids do go bad those same player are now going to blame Turbine for ruining their game play. "You stole my money and time!!" they'll scream. Because obviously if the game maker is running a Raid it should be a smooth easy ride across the finish line. And if it isn't woe betide Turbine.
• Fourth how many man hours should they sink into these runs? At a minimum your looking at what 12 hours? 2 hours per server at least once a week. Of course that wouldn't ever be enough. All it takes is them doing this once and players are demanding more...They'll want every Raid run every week so that everyone has a shot. Can't stop there though, there'd still be players who couldn't fit into those runs. Better make it a full set of Raids every night. Where does it stop? (Before it even starts is the obvious answer)

If you really want to Raid form your own group. Use the forums for your Server. Expand your guild. Make friends with other guilds. Do what ever YOU need to. Don't expect others to do it for you.

[redoubt]

Because I am a new player and have never run one before. I would have no idea what I am doing.

Well, how do you think those raids were run the first time?

[lugoman]

All I'm hearing is whining. I still go into Raids that wipe. None of them are a sure thing. The Reavers been out for ages, and a group I was in wiped not even a month ago. Not because anyone did anything wrong, but because the air elementals picked off the Clerics. Half the group dropped. Boo-frigin-who. We took the time to refill and push on.

That being said: Having Turbine lead the Raid won't solve anything.

• The first and most obvious problem is they should be designing and producing interesting content for the player base. At no time should they take away from their work load to babysit players.
• Secondly those same *&^@ who run off at the first sign of a problem are still going to run off when things go south. Any why wouldn't they go south? I mean heck you want to put 11 players who aren't willing to try for themselves in a Raid they haven't done before and you're think it'll work out fine? That none of them are gona mess it up and then drop because they just wasted xxx time?
• Third, when the Raids do go bad those same player are now going to blame Turbine for ruining their game play. "You stole my money and time!!" they'll scream. Because obviously if the game maker is running a Raid it should be a smooth easy ride across the finish line. And if it isn't woe betide Turbine.
• Fourth how many man hours should they sink into these runs? At a minimum your looking at what 12 hours? 2 hours per server at least once a week. Of course that wouldn't ever be enough. All it takes is them doing this once and players are demanding more...They'll want every Raid run every week so that everyone has a shot. Can't stop there though, there'd still be players who couldn't fit into those runs. Better make it a full set of Raids every night. Where does it stop? (Before it even starts is the obvious answer)

Maybe I didnt make myself clear. It isnt about anyone helping me do a raid, or making it easier, or telling me exactly what to do every second. It is about just getting a group to join in the first place. Just looking at the grouping window when I am online the only raid I regularly see looking for people is Tempest Spine. I've never seen a DQ raid and only once saw a gianthold raid or shroud.

If you really want to Raid form your own group. Use the forums for your Server. Expand your guild. Make friends with other guilds. Do what ever YOU need to. Don't expect others to do it for you.

Yes, these are a valid options, but guess what? I dont find doing any of that very fun. I dont NEED to play DDO. Maybe you just cant play the high end content unless you do all the things you mention here. If so I guess DDO isnt the game for me.

[lugoman]

Well, how do you think those raids were run the first time?

Probably on a beta server with people who are there specifically to be the first to solve it. So they are ready to explore/try/fail as long as it takes. Same thing when the raid first goes live. You have a whole server of people who are patient enough to get their loot. A few months goes by and the pool of people with enough patience to do an "imperfect" raid goes way down.

[Gadget2775]

Maybe I didnt make myself clear. It isnt about anyone helping me do a raid, or making it easier, or telling me exactly what to do every second. It is about just getting a group to join in the first place. Just looking at the grouping window when I am online the only raid I regularly see looking for people is Tempest Spine. I've never seen a DQ raid and only once saw a gianthold raid or shroud.

You made yourself very clear. You aren't willing to help yourself out. The only way YOU will run the content is if someone takes the time to set things up for YOU.

And you're still barking up the wrong tree if you expect Turbine to set up and run Raids. They aren't in the business of running Raids. They're in the business of making them, providing servers, prepping new content and providing a platform for players to enjoy. It's (hold on to your seat here...Cause this is a shocking concept) up to the players to play the game. (Wow! I know! I mean just way out there!)

Trying to foist it off on Turbine isn't just lazy, it's wrong (see my previous post if you need a refresher on why). It doesn't matter how you put it out, as soon as runs are stamped "Turbine" they cross a line and open themselves up to all sorts of abuse and hostility.

Yes, these are a valid options, but guess what? I dont find doing any of that very fun. I dont NEED to play DDO. Maybe you just cant play the high end content unless you do all the things you mention here. If so I guess DDO isnt the game for me.

No, you aren't locked out of high end content. You may have locked yourself out of Raids and the less popular content, but that's your own doing and no one elses. Good luck finding an MMO where the Dev Teams sets up Raids for you. Really, good luck with that.

[lugoman]

You made yourself very clear. You aren't willing to help yourself out. The only way YOU will run the content is if someone takes the time to set things up for YOU.

And you're still barking up the wrong tree if you expect Turbine to set up and run Raids. They aren't in the business of running Raids. They're in the business of making them, providing servers, prepping new content and providing a platform for players to enjoy. It's (hold on to your seat here...Cause this is a shocking concept) up to the players to play the game. (Wow! I know! I mean just way out there!)

Trying to foist it off on Turbine isn't just lazy, it's wrong (see my previous post if you need a refresher on why). It doesn't matter how you put it out, as soon as runs are stamped "Turbine" they cross a line and open themselves up to all sorts of abuse and hostility.


No, you aren't locked out of high end content. You may have locked yourself out of Raids and the less popular content, but that's your own doing and no one elses. Good luck finding an MMO where the Dev Teams sets up Raids for you. Really, good luck with that.

Other mmo's have players who set up public raids, ddo doesnt. I really dont get why you care who leads raids. Maybe I am lazy or mentally challenged and dont want the hassle of starting and leading a raid. Why do you care if I join someone else's? How does it matter if it is some random player or an intern at Turbine? What abuse are you talking about? I think it would encourage people to buy the adventure packs that have raids in them if they were actually able to do the raids. It's a crazy theory I know.