our BB or their BB

[Ereshkigal]

or you could make it so we take damage from our own aoe spells then it would be a moot point. Also it might mean people would use a wider variety of spells. Standing in your own (or your partymember's) firewall/bladebarrier/etc ... I can't deny the effectiveness or efficiency at which they work, but I also can't say it has ever added to my enjoyment of the game.

Of course I realize more people would hate this idea than would love it, and I don't expect to see it happen.

[Arlith]

ding ding ding

bor seems only really me and you know the pure hell of people who dont use voice chat!!! I feaking cant stand typers, and the other thing that goes hand in hand, the cleric who casts bb, doesnt use voice and he just stands in the back, how useless is that....and even worse, I am on my cleric with max/empower bb and the group pug dies trying to melee everything outside the bb.....makes me want to throw up

jrp

Why even have those spells then? If we know not to walk into green blade barriers, why can't mobs know not to walk into blue blade barriers? It will happen. If the change was implemented it would have to happen. For blade barrier, firewall, CK, Acid Fog, any/all of them. You start making them different colors and you just open the door for mob AI to be changed.

As far as people who do not use a mic. How does, "They don't have a mic" translate into, "Must change spell behavior!" It doesn't. That is a whole different problem.

Let's say, for the sake of arguement, it does get changed. What will you do then with the players who still walk through the blade barriers? Maybe they are colorblind. Maybe they play without a monitor. What do you change about the game then?

The solution, teach them. If they don't talk, or dont have speakers, take the time to type it out.

If they won't learn, well, then it really doesn't matter what color the blade barriers are.

[Borror0]

Why even have those spells then? If we know not to walk into green blade barriers, why can't mobs know not to walk into blue blade barriers?

You're incorrectly assuming that the presence of an AoE spell would not modify our behavior. If that was true, those spells would be useless in D&D as well. After all, who would cross a Wall of Fire or a Blade Barrier? Unless the critter does not have an Int score, that won't happen.

If the mobs cast Wall of Fire on themselves, it will force us to fight from a distance or accept to burn in the Wall of Fire.

As far as people who do not use a mic. How does, "They don't have a mic" translate into, "Must change spell behavior!" It doesn't.

That is absolutely correct. It does not follow from "They don't have a mic" that "[we] [m]ust change spell behavior!" That would be a non-sequitur.

Thing is, no one is arguing that!

Rather, the argument is that, for people not using a microphone, conversation speed is too slow to prevent situations where a party member run into a lingering AoE spells that they thought were casted by their party members. For this reason, there should be a visual cue for players to distinguish whether a spell was cast by an opponent or a party member.

Let's say, for the sake of arguement, it does get changed. What will you do then with the players who still walk through the blade barriers? Maybe they are colorblind. Maybe they play without a monitor. What do you change about the game then?

Nirvana fallacy. Simply because a change is not perfect does not mean it is not a worthwhile endeavor (thankfully so because perfect solution do not exist). Opposing a change simply because it does not act as a panacea to all problems is an invalid argument because the goal of a solution is to solve problems and, for as long as it does that without having major drawbacks, it will fulfill that goal.

This is also a slippery slope fallacy: "You will change X because of Y. Then, you'll change X again because of Z. You'll go on like this until you destroy all that is good in the game. We should prevent it right now before so that the real bad changes never happen!"

Each change should be evaluated case by case. It is not because a reasoning is valid for one problem that is valid for another.

If they don't talk, or dont have speakers, take the time to type it out.

The problem is that, if they don't use a microphone, the time required to type "Not my Blade Barrier" or "Not my Wall of fire" is too long to be efficient because people will have already realized that fact after having taken damage from it.

That has been jrp's position since the beginning...

[FluffyCalico]

The problem is that, if they don't use a microphone, the time required to type "Not my Blade Barrier" or "Not my Wall of fire" is too long to be efficient because people will have already realized that fact after having taken damage from it.

..

Nope good players dont need to be told that a spell that is damaging them is not a friendly spell. The fact its damaging them is proof that its not a friendly spell. IE if a spell hits you stop standing it, noone should need to tell someone that.

Also the real solution to this is make the spells correctly damage friendlys. As noone should be standing in a wall of fire or BB. This all comes from not being able to take friendly fire.

[transtemporal]

for all the players running in and around Blade Barriers, maybe their Blade Barrier is slightly different color than ours..... just a thought as its really a pain to know, truely a pain

But then I'd have to worry about whose blade barriers are whose!!! I don't want to do that!!! You're trying to tell me how to play my toon! You're not the boss of me!

[sirdanile]

Maybe they play without a monitor. What do you change about the game then?

I have ddo linked via copper wire to the electrical impulses in my brain, I do not need to see to play!

I feel sorry for the fool that plays with a monitor.

[Borror0]

Nope good players dont need to be told that a spell that is damaging them is not a friendly spell. The fact its damaging them is proof that its not a friendly spell.

What you quoted directly refutes this argument.

Also the real solution to this is make the spells correctly damage friendlys.

No, obviously not. It's also a very bad idea for very obvious reasons already stated in this thread.

If you need a refresher: griefing, fast paced gameplay and creation of tensions between players. Griefing is the most important one.

I have ddo linked via copper wire to the electrical impulses in my brain, I do not need to see to play!

'm trying to recall what this thing is called in Shadowrun. Connectlink?

[sirdanile]

oooh lemme check, *pulls out shadowrun books*


*Edit*

The nodes of all electronic devices a person carries are connected in a similar manner, creating a Personal Area Network (PAN). People access their PAN with their Commlink, a combination personal computer/cell phone/PDA/wireless device available either as an implant or a head-mounted display.

Wikipedia shadowrun link, MAN my books are dusty...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowrun#The_Matrix



ON TOPIC: I support the tinting of enemies and players persistant aoe effect spells different colors to allow easier distinguishing than "OOPS my hp went down"

[Borror0]

Commlink! That's it! Thanks.

[sirgog]

My solution is that I just don't use Bladebarriers in quests where the mobs uses it--works fine for me, I can energy drain/zap stuff instead--plus its seems these days everyone is dual wielding lightning 2s and mobs die in a few hits anyway.

I do get a kick out of the clerics that insist on casting BB throughout Bastion and Sins, getting a ton of mobs porting on them, and dying --with 2 kills at the end of the quest.

That must be a pretty low HP cleric.

Even in Elite, I have no trouble healing myself through the mob aggro you get when you BB-kite the mobs; as long as the room I'm doing it in hasn't got a trap (Traps mean extreme care needs to be taken, they hurt on Elite).

Can't keep it up for the whole quest (SP issues ) but that's why I always bring 3 clerics to Elite Sins runs. The other three characters get a free ride.

[Xyfiel]

While I could see this helpful to some people sometimes, it's effect is so minimal it should be really low on the priority list if at all. I would not want time spent on this before half elf, half orc, druid, finishing prestiges, new quests, bug fixing, new spells, domains, etc.

I can't see how this really comes into play that much.
1) If caster is casting multiple blade barriers and you need to kill it, you are going to go thru the blades and kill it to lower the healing needed in the long run. Of course you could voice to your caster or evasion players to handle it, but changing the color won't help that. Everyone should be taking out the casters first anyway, resulting in fewer situations this arises.

2) Situational awareness. What else are you concentrating on unless you are a healbot? If you are in melee vs a mob, do you not look around to see which mob to move to next, what other melee is having problems, does caster have aggro and are they handling it, cleric have aggro? Good players know whats going on, and don't have problems with this. Bad players don't know whats going on, and fancy colors won't help that much.

[arminius]

I have ddo linked via copper wire to the electrical impulses in my brain, I do not need to see to play!

I feel sorry for the fool that plays with a monitor.

Holodeck.

With the Safety. Protocols. Off.

_

[SquelchHU]

You're incorrectly assuming that the presence of an AoE spell would not modify our behavior. If that was true, those spells would be useless in D&D as well. After all, who would cross a Wall of Fire or a Blade Barrier? Unless the critter does not have an Int score, that won't happen.

Anyone smart would. Fire Wall is completely negated by a simple Resist Fire cast by a caster of the same level, or even a much lower level. Blade Barrier is slightly more relevant, but as damage spells are a joke in D&D and combats are over quick the smart move is to lose 10% of your HP at most if that would allow you to pose a serious threat to the dangerous enemies on the battlefield instead of standing back and getting hit by something that will remove you from the combat, or the game in one shot. Sure, you shouldn't just run through it for the hell of it, but the scenario where you play Benny Hill with the enemies doesn't happen because fights aren't long enough for that.

If anything, it would be the Int nil enemies more likely to shy away from it, because all they know is that when they touch it it hurts.