Epic DQ Raid Completed

[totmacher]

Break in the sense that every time you die, your gear loses what, 10% of it's current quest life usability so that after 10 deaths (or whatever), your gear is unusable - what you're wearing / weilding of course.

To complete an Epic quest virtually naked and perhaps without weapons is , well, I don't even think 'unbalanced' is the right word.

yes, bust completely. without the gfl, exceptional con and con +6, i would've been down to nothing hp... it would've been rough, especially with the blades around. quicken healing is not fast enough

[Cyr]

A few questions

1) Did you have a very high AC toon attempting to intimidate? (By very high I mean 85 or so)

2) Was everyone properly decked out for the fight as well as the party make up? As in using the bow to their best advantage.

3) The quoted reflex save was 30 with around 75 damage a hit right?

4) How quickly would have efreets went down if you had 4 extra peps concentrating on them the moment they popped?

5) The super speed boost mode seems to be the real issue and apparently she randomly agro's. Did you just try splitting the party up as much as possible and having the agroed person move?

6) Wow, that is a huge number of Mana pots. That said if you had quit at 10% before beserker mode how many would you have used?

Thanks,
Cyr

[Jonny_D]

For 2 reason:

1. It is beta. No need to be critical about something I have not seen myself. I already see peeps talking about resources that will be required and to me that is kind of goofy. It still might change before it goes live and as past experience of other raids has shown us, anything that took crazy amounts of resourses the first few times will require none or next to none in a short time post live release.
This will happen regardless as long as access to DDO store is available. Also there is crazy resourses and then the amount that we used... 200ish pots does not translate well to like servers.

2. This is the achievement section. IMO, critical comments are great in the proper spot.
I dont think anyones criticisms are overly negative or unhelpful in the thread so far. I do think many people or in for a rude awakening when they try this raid out on live servers, especially if they make it harder.
edit: #3. I don't do beta. Bwhahaha.
you are doing beta right now discussing tactics, resource consumption, and difficulty BWHAHAHAAHAH

Reply in red

[Zaal]

yes, bust completely. without the gfl, exceptional con and con +6, i would've been down to nothing hp... it would've been rough, especially with the blades around. quicken healing is not fast enough

I guess I am obtuse... by the 10th death death or so, your gear was unusable, yes?
Same goes for the rest of the party?

And what about death penalties?

You were able to complete an Epic quest with 30+ death penalties ?
Your party even more ???

Yes, I am really missing something here

[SableShadow]

I guess I am obtuse... by the 10th death death or so, your gear was unusable, yes?
Same goes for the rest of the party?

And what about death penalties?

You were able to complete an Epic quest with 30+ death penalties ?
Your party even more ???

Yes, I am really missing something here

Let me test my understanding: the quest is too easy because people die a lot in it?

[Jonny_D]

A few questions

1) Did you have a very high AC toon attempting to intimidate? (By very high I mean 85 or so)
No. I agree this would be nice to try although they will need DR because you will get a ton of glancing blows.
2) Was everyone properly decked out for the fight as well as the party make up? As in using the bow to their best advantage.
Not even close for me atleast on my caster... 1 greensteel item
3) The quoted reflex save was 30 with around 75 damage a hit right?
damge yes, never checked the save (my wizards is like a 3) 30 sounds about right
4) How quickly would have efreets went down if you had 4 extra peps concentrating on them the moment they popped?
5mins an Efreeti as opposed to 5:30 they have huge HP, thankfully no DR

5) The super speed boost mode seems to be the real issue and apparently she randomly agro's. Did you just try splitting the party up as much as possible and having the agroed person move? Impossible, the party was completely split most of the time, she is to fast to avoid and you cant face her all the time or you will end up falling off the platform, so you cant always see her come for you

6) Wow, that is a huge number of Mana pots. That said if you had quit at 10% before beserker mode how many would you have used?
of the 40+ I would have used 5 less approx on my wizard

Thanks,
Cyr

reply in red

[HeavenlyCloud]

I guess I am obtuse... by the 10th death death or so, your gear was unusable, yes?
Same goes for the rest of the party?

And what about death penalties?

You were able to complete an Epic quest with 30+ death penalties ?
Your party even more ???

Yes, I am really missing something here

It's impossible to have 30+ death penalties. Death penalties after 5 deaths if i remember right.

Also Efreets with a full party would have taken around 1 min to kill 1 and the Queen is only off the platform for 30 seconds

[totmacher]

A few questions

1) Did you have a very high AC toon attempting to intimidate? (By very high I mean 85 or so)

2) Was everyone properly decked out for the fight as well as the party make up? As in using the bow to their best advantage.

3) The quoted reflex save was 30 with around 75 damage a hit right?

4) How quickly would have efreets went down if you had 4 extra peps concentrating on them the moment they popped?

5) The super speed boost mode seems to be the real issue and apparently she randomly agro's. Did you just try splitting the party up as much as possible and having the agroed person move?

6) Wow, that is a huge number of Mana pots. That said if you had quit at 10% before beserker mode how many would you have used?

Thanks,
Cyr

1) no

2) to my knowledge, yes. the only person that used a bow was shabam (the ranger) and maybe sableshadow, i'm not sure

3) probably quickly. that group would need its own healer/mass prot: fire spammer as well. they would probably have to split, kite, split, kite.

4) there was no organization when she berserked... it was everyone for themselves on the platform, in do as much dps to her as possible mode. i ran around and bb'd.

5) mana pots were used consistently throughout the raid. just as many were drank at the end as were at the beginning. i didn't even attempt to use a scroll although others might have.

I guess I am obtuse... by the 10th death death or so, your gear was unusable, yes?
Same goes for the rest of the party?

And what about death penalties?

You were able to complete an Epic quest with 30+ death penalties ?
Your party even more ???

Yes, I am really missing something here

my gear was not competely broken: at 0 durability. the death penalties took me down to 250 HP if I remember right. yes we were able to complete.

[Jonny_D]

I guess I am obtuse... by the 10th death death or so, your gear was unusable, yes?
Same goes for the rest of the party?

And what about death penalties?

You were able to complete an Epic quest with 30+ death penalties ?
Your party even more ???

Yes, I am really missing something here

at the end I simply stood by the rez shrine: 1) rezed 2)cast reconstruct 3a) Cast Otilukes, then Polar ray; 3b) drank a mana pot then cast polar ray 4)Died by blade, DBF, DQ 5)wait for blades to move 6) repeat steps 1-5 accordingly

[Zaal]

Wow - I think from this experience that Epic quests (imho) are joke.
Yeah I know I'm seeing only the tip of the berg here but really:
- literally, gear is reduced to goo
- literally, a permanent 5 death penalty (thx for clarification) though the raid

and as long as you have the cash, you'll finish it.
(no disrespect to the achievers as I know that, knowing how to play really helps)

I suppose really, do you believe that the quest is do-able with an in-flux of cash through the DDO store? And we're talking about repeating this more than a few times if you've any chance of tricking out your loot to be Epic.

[transtemporal]

Grats guys, awesome work!

[totmacher]

Wow - I think from this experience that Epic quests (imho) are joke.
Yeah I know I'm seeing only the tip of the berg here but really:
- literally, gear is reduced to goo
- literally, a permanent 5 death penalty (thx for clarification) though the raid

and as long as you have the cash, you'll finish it.
(no disrespect to the achievers as I know that, knowing how to play really helps)

I suppose really, do you believe that the quest is do-able with an in-flux of cash through the DDO store? And we're talking about repeating this more than a few times if you've any chance of tricking out your loot to be Epic.

i think you're going to have to do it to make an accurate judgment. most of the things you mention happened at the tail end of the raid to me, it was basically a mana pot-induced spell dps fest. and yes, of course, i think the quest is more do-able (but not completely) solely through the store. you still need quite a bit of skill and gear to get there.

[SableShadow]

Wow - I think from this experience that Epic quests (imho) are joke.
Yeah I know I'm seeing only the tip of the berg here but really:
- literally, gear is reduced to goo
- literally, a permanent 5 death penalty (thx for clarification) though the raid

and as long as you have the cash, you'll finish it.
(no disrespect to the achievers as I know that, knowing how to play really helps)

I suppose really, do you believe that the quest is do-able with an in-flux of cash through the DDO store? And we're talking about repeating this more than a few times if you've any chance of tricking out your loot to be Epic.

Folks made similar comments about Tower when it was beaten on beta. We run that with zero pot cost now. ymmv.

[Riggs]

thinking about this more, i begin to hate mana pots more even though i have used to so many. they should have never been added to the game, they scale the healing dynamic outwards and take away from some of the manual skill involved

100% agree.

People expect a cleric to be using lots of resources in high level content now. Buy your way to success?

Any quest should be based on your mana bar - not how much $$ you can drop on the auction house to Turbine points. A raid clickie that acts like a mana pot 1/day? sure. Expecting that anyone attempting 'hard' quests is going to need 100 mana pots and 500 scrolls to get through it? ...insane, and has led to extremely bad quest balancing.

Gratz on doing it btw.

But high level stuff spams out so much damage that a clerics mana bar is no where near enough anymore unless the entire party is 80+ ac evasion builds. Or high ac AND self healing.

Bad for the game, bad for players - but good for the DDO store eh? Wanna lay odds on a sale on mana pots when epic comes out?

[Riggs]

Folks made similar comments about Tower when it was beaten on beta. We run that with zero pot cost now. ymmv.

Tower doesnt have a dozen mobile blade barriers along with spam dbf and a small platform no one can hide on. Or a raid boss that can hit for 400 damage in one set of swings apparently, with overrun.

[SableShadow]

Tower doesnt have a dozen mobile blade barriers along with spam dbf and a small platform no one can hide on. Or a raid boss that can hit for 400 damage in one set of swings apparently, with overrun.

Yet people said the same things (e.g. "ZOMG! Making us use the store!") about Tower when it was beaten in beta, yes?

My major complaint about the raid is there's no melee roles to be had. Maybe if they reduced the Efreet spawn rate, so it would be cost-effective to take them out when they spawned...

[MagicianBlade]

I'm finding that all of the loot from all of the adventures, once you pass level 14 or so, is utterly useless.

[Jonny_D]

Yet people said the same things (e.g. "ZOMG! Making us use the store!") about Tower when it was beaten in beta, yes?

My major complaint about the raid is there's no melee roles to be had. Maybe if they reduced the Efreet spawn rate, so it would be cost-effective to take them out when they spawned...

I do think it will be beatable w/o using the store... but the store makes it much easier for those willing to pay.

What if they reduced the HP of the efreeti a fair but spawned more? Melee's enjoy having lots of stuff to kill, keeping them busy (think Orthons in last phase of ToD)

[MagicianBlade]

100% agree.

People expect a cleric to be using lots of resources in high level content now. Buy your way to success?

Any quest should be based on your mana bar - not how much $$ you can drop on the auction house to Turbine points. A raid clickie that acts like a mana pot 1/day? sure. Expecting that anyone attempting 'hard' quests is going to need 100 mana pots and 500 scrolls to get through it? ...insane, and has led to extremely bad quest balancing.

Gratz on doing it btw.

But high level stuff spams out so much damage that a clerics mana bar is no where near enough anymore unless the entire party is 80+ ac evasion builds. Or high ac AND self healing.

Bad for the game, bad for players - but good for the DDO store eh? Wanna lay odds on a sale on mana pots when epic comes out?

You can get 12 people in there. Get more than one cleric.

[Zaal]

i think you're going to have to do it to make an accurate judgment. most of the things you mention happened at the tail end of the raid to me, it was basically a mana pot-induced spell dps fest. and yes, of course, i think the quest is more do-able (but not completely) solely through the store. you still need quite a bit of skill and gear to get there.

I defer to your wisdom in this matter