Rogue Acrobat 12 / Monk 6 / Fighter 2

[FatalBagel]

Please help me refine my (28 pt) build!

About me: This is actually my first build, but I'm a huge number cruncher and have read quite a bit on the forums. I love the style-look of staff combat, but I'd prefer not to sacrifice functionality.

What I want: I'm looking for a DPS character for a dedicated party. I'd like to be raid worthy eventually and not be totally gimped vs undead/constructs/high-DR opponennts. I'd also like to have a reasonably strong trap/lock utility, buffable to leet status if possible.

Questions and Concerns:

Is it worth sacrificing Rogue 13 for Fighter 2?
I gain:
+1 BAB: Puts me over the 15 mark giving me a 4th attack.
1 Fighter feet: Not a huge one, I took whirlwind attack more for style (I assume it's mediocre in this build).
+1 Str: This is a pretty nice bonus!
I lose:
Crippling strike: I've read it's amazing with radiant weapons, but it seems somewhat gimmicky. Is it really that critical?
+1d6 sneak attack
The extra attack seems like it might be worth it. Am I wrong?


Which monk stance is better?
Fire gives the STR bonus, but wind mentions "attack speed increase". How much increase do you get from the Disciple vs. Adept levels of this?

Is it worth skipping the monk strikes?
I'm kinda tight on AP, is there one I should definitely grab?

Should I go for Cleave/Greater Cleave?
Seems like it would be asking for aggro issues and I have no idea how they work with sneak attacks, glancing blows, etc.

Are the glancing blow effects worth the two-handed fighting feats given this build?
I grabbed all of them, but I really have no idea it it's the right call.

Will this build work well with the equipment available?

Will I be able to reach all the goal numbers with regards to UMD, DD, etc? Any other goal numbers I should know about?

Anyway, enough gab. Here's the build:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(2 Fighter \ 6 Monk \ 12 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 192
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 18
Will: 12

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Stats          Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    25
Dexterity            14                    20
Constitution          8                    10
Intelligence         14                    16
Wisdom               14                    16
Charisma              8                    10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 9
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 9
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 9
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 9
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 9
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               2                    11
Bluff                -1                     0
Concentration        -1                    21
Diplomacy             3                    21
Disable Device        6                    26
Haggle                3                    17
Heal                  2                     3
Hide                  6                     9
Intimidate           -1                     0
Jump                  7                    34
Listen                6                    21
Move Silently         2                     5
Open Lock             6                    22
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                2                     3
Search                6                    20
Spot                  6                    20
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                6                    28
Use Magic Device      3                    23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Balance I


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Disciple of Candles
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble I


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I


Level 4 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 5 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Balance II


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Enhancement: Rogue Tumble II


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II


Level 8 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Mobility
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound I


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 10 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 11 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III


Level 13 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III


Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Philosophy - Path of Harmonious Balance
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV


Level 16 (Monk)
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III


Level 17 (Monk)
Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound II


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Adept of Flame


Level 19 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Whirlwind Attack
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Dexterity I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I

Thanks in advance for any answers, suggestions or flames!

[jboyd158]

Please help me refine my (28 pt) build!

About me: This is actually my first build, but I'm a huge number cruncher and have read quite a bit on the forums. I love the style-look of staff combat, but I'd prefer not to sacrifice functionality.

What I want: I'm looking for a DPS character for a dedicated party. I'd like to be raid worthy eventually and not be totally gimped vs undead/constructs/high-DR opponennts. I'd also like to have a reasonably strong trap/lock utility, buffable to leet status if possible.

I'd suggest either 13Rogue/7Monk; 13Rogue/6Fighter/1Monk; or 13Rogue/6Paladin/1Monk.
They all give Wind Stance I (or II in the case of the first one), any two of Improved Evasion/Slippery Mind/Crippling Strike, and 7d6 sneak attack. The first one gives more survivability, the second more DPS, and the last a balance of them... or so I've come to acknowledge...

[Thanimal]

The 13/6/1 builds are fabulous (including Ranger 6, the peak DPS option), but given your comment in the OP, I sorta think you'd prefer The_Phenx's Big F'n Stick. Should be pretty easy to search up.

I wouldn't give a lot of consideration to Monk levels beyond 2 in this sort of build. Monk gets some interesting stuff at much higher levels, but from 3 to perhaps 10ish is a bit of a no-man's land for Monk levels.

In a mostly Rogue like this you "definitely" want to hit 13 as it grants more SA and 2 awesome feats. Personally I like Rogue 16 even better because you get ALL of the "big three" Rogue feats: Crippling Strike, Improved Evasion, Slippery Mind.

[Impaqt]

Please help me refine my (28 pt) build!

About me: This is actually my first build, but I'm a huge number cruncher and have read quite a bit on the forums. I love the style-look of staff combat, but I'd prefer not to sacrifice functionality.

What I want: I'm looking for a DPS character for a dedicated party. I'd like to be raid worthy eventually and not be totally gimped vs undead/constructs/high-DR opponennts. I'd also like to have a reasonably strong trap/lock utility, buffable to leet status if possible.

Questions and Concerns:

Is it worth sacrificing Rogue 13 for Fighter 2?
I gain:
+1 BAB: Puts me over the 15 mark giving me a 4th attack.

THis was changed in Patch 1/2 4th attack is granted at like BAB +1 or +2 now.

1 Fighter feet: Not a huge one, I took whirlwind attack more for style (I assume it's mediocre in this build).

Useless comes to mind

+1 Str: This is a pretty
nice bonus!

Nearly Useless. Your trading 1 point for str for 1d6 of sneak attack damage.

I lose:
Crippling strike: I've read it's amazing with radiant weapons, but it seems somewhat gimmicky. Is it really that critical?

I'd give up Improved Evasionbefore I gave up Crippling Strike. It really is that good.

+1d6 sneak attack
The extra attack seems like it might be worth it. Am I wrong?

See not above about +1 STR. Not a good trade.

[Matuse]

There is no conceivably valid reason that ANY character should start with an 8 con. You have to try very hard to justify ANY character starting with less than a 12, really.

[cluedout]

1 or 2 things you should take a look at, first, I think it is a viable build, however I would play something else until you get your 32 point build. Here is why

You are starting with an 8 con. I cannot stress how much of a mistake that is, you will do fine until around lvl 10 when you get to gianthold, and others who started with the standard 14+ con will be able to gianthold while a good 4 levels under recommended, you will be dieing and dieing and (did i mention, dieing?) even when you are lvl 14+ so starting stats i would have to say would be something a little more like,

str: 16
dex: 14
con: 14
int: 10
wis: 12
cha 8

The next thing you need to take a look at is tome usage, do you realistically have the option of getting a full set of +2's at lvl 9? sure there was a recent sale on the ddo store, however i hope turbine listened to the community and will never do that again.

Another thing, is it worth 3 feats, dodge, mobility and spring attack to get +4 to attack while moving? sure this is a feat heavy build, but do take a look into it and make sure there is nothing else you want.

next one the list is skills, notice I put 10 into intelligence for recommended starting stats. for traps all you are going to need is search, spot, open lock, disable device, and UMD. all remaning points go to jump and balance 1 point to tumble and the rest to diplomacy, hide and move silent. just keep those first 5 maxed and you will be fine.

other then that, good luck and have fun with the game.

[Sirea]

There is no conceivably valid reason that ANY character should start with an 8 con. You have to try very hard to justify ANY character starting with less than a 12, really.

/signed x10

You will be spending a lot of time in the cleric's pocket with a starting 8 CON

[Strakeln]

Everyone calls me crazy, but I say if 40 HP makes or breaks your character, you need to work on your playstyle.

*makes crazy sounds*

[Tanka]

Everyone calls me crazy, but I say if 40 HP makes or breaks your character, you need to work on your playstyle.

*makes crazy sounds*

It isn't just HP, it's also Fort saves.

And nothing sucks worse than multiple failed Evasion (or even Improved Evasion) saves.

[Thanimal]

It isn't just HP, it's also Fort saves.

And nothing sucks worse than multiple failed Evasion (or even Improved Evasion) saves.

Evasion only applies to Reflex saves. (Which I'm certain you knew. Typo? But someone reading this might not.)

[Tanka]

Evasion only applies to Reflex saves. (Which I'm certain you knew. Typo? But someone reading this might not.)

No, not a typo. I'm saying HP is important because sometimes you roll multiple 1s in a row.

[Strakeln]

It isn't just HP, it's also Fort saves.

Okay, if 40 HP and 2 fort save makes or breaks your character, you need to work on your playstyle. Better?

[Tanka]

Better?

Who knew pedantry would be so hilarious?

[OliviaCrowley]

Okay, if 40 HP and 2 fort save makes or breaks your character, you need to work on your playstyle. Better?

The problem is that the majority of people who use CON as a dump stat are the ones who have a poor playstyle and die as a combined result. That 6 CON drow/elf. You know the ones I'm talking about.

[Strakeln]

The problem is that the majority of people who use CON as a dump stat are the ones who have a poor playstyle and die as a combined result. That 6 CON drow/elf. You know the ones I'm talking about.

I do know what you mean.

Now stop trying to discourage the easiest way to identify that type of player!

[FatalBagel]

Thank you guys for the responses!

In regards to the concerns:

Suggestions of other builds: I highly appreciate the thought that goes into many of these builds and while I may very-well end up playing one, it does me little good if I don't know what makes them superior. That's why I decided to post my build for the wolves

13 Rogue vs 2 Fighter: Thanks very much for setting me strait on this. I know a fair amount of PnP D&D where the +15 BAB is a much bigger deal. Apparently it doesn't matter as much hear and I look forward to exploiting radiance + crippling strike to its fullest! I agree that the str barely offsets the extra sneak attack (though it does statistically if your damage is high enough).

Monk levels 2-6: Does anyone know how much of an increase to attack rate you get from the Adept level of wind stance? There are definitely some nice bonuses here over rogue:

Give up: Slippery mind, +3d6 sneak attack, chance at Acrobat 3.
Gain: +4 to hit flanked, +3/+0/+3 saves, +2 AC, +20 Run Speed, Harmonious Balance Philosophy, Slow Fall x2, Immunity to disease, 2 Feats

My biggest concern would be the acrobat 3 possibility next patch.

Con @8: I've read this alot. I totally understand the value of survivability. I actually accommodated for 42 of the HP with toughness and improved toughness x2. At a cost of 1 Feat and 2 AP, it seemed worth the trade of 4 stat points. Granted, it leaves me down a bit on the fort saves. Hopefully I don't fit the con-dump style player archtype you suggest. Though I'm a noob, I've been raiding been in top-ranked raiding guilds for years on other games.

I really wish I had the 32 point build, but unfortunately I'm committed to play now. Maybe I should go 14/14/12/14/14/8. What would you guys recommend?

I think you guys (and the possibility of Acrobat 3) have convinced me to go Rogue 18, Monk 2 afterall.

[OliviaCrowley]

Con @8: I totally understand the value of survivability. I actually accommodated for 42 of the HP with toughness and improved toughness x2. At a cost of 1 Feat and 2 AP, it seemed worth the trade of 4 stat points.

I wanted to pull this out and note that Toughness does not make up for having a poor con.

[Thanimal]

Gain: +4 to hit flanked, +3/+0/+3 saves, +2 AC, +20 Run Speed, Harmonious Balance Philosophy, Slow Fall x2, Immunity to disease, 2 Feats

To be clear, it's the levels after 2 that get dubious. Much of the best stuff mentioned above has already come by then. Then +4 flanking, +1 AC, run speed, philosophy, slow fall, and 1 more feat are all quite minor benefits compared to what Rogue offers. In fact, some of those are almost 100% useless in this game. Disease immunity is kinda nice, but it's easy enough to swap in an item when you get diseased.

I think you guys (and the possibility of Acrobat 3) have convinced me to go Rogue 18, Monk 2 afterall.

Then my work here is done.

[Bigwig74]

sure there was a recent sale on the ddo store, however i hope turbine listened to the community and will never do that again.

What is that supposed to mean?

[elujin]

first off acrobats pull aggro like crazy and seccond 8 con is ding dead res ding dead 12 realy is as low you can go trust me if the dps min/maxers could dump con they would