TWF and handwraps

[Azmode]

Okay... I use to play ADnD, back 10 years ago... And I play a lot of bioware games- like Baldurs gate, and NWN... Monk, was always my favorite class to play in either of those games.

Well - from what I always understand, fists were always considered one weapon. Not two - however, I keep hearing some few people say "get TWF, it works for handwraps!" That it even adds an extra attack(not sure if it's per round). While others, even high level 15-20 monks tell me that it DOESN'T effect handwraps.

So what is it, honestly? Does TWF actually effect fists? Or is it used for kamas? I mean, for every person that says it doesn't - I have one that does... It's quite confusing... And I just rerolled my monk from dark, to light.

So please, if you answer this - only do so if you know 100% sure, and if you've tested it yourself. I've never seen a problem such as this, and it's really hard for me to test it out myself.

[Azmode]

I do apolgize for having the same topic as others... So let me add some more information...

I'm a STR/WIS monk. With dex maxing out at 18... Should I go and get ITWF/GTWF? And any other two weapon feats?

Also - why are there so many people who say that TWF doesn't work with handwraps - while others do? It's such a cloudy topic...

[Asketes]

**ADVISORY NOTE**

these numbers are now invalid b/c of the changes to BaB and attack speed. you still greatly benefit if you can take these feats.

remember you need a BASE of 17 dex to take i.TWF and g.TWF (base means unbuffed, no items, just the bottom line and any tomes, or level points you have put into your stat)



starting with mod 9 TWF feats affect weaponless fighting.. so yes fists.


not sure the new stats but in mod 8:

unarmed you would have 90 attacks/minute with your primary hand assuming lvl 16

if you took the 1st twf feat, again assuming lvl 16:
36 atks/min

improved twf:
54 atks/min

greater twf:
90 atks/min

[Scarecrow9]

i have personally tested with and without twf and it DOES affect unarmed combat. make any sense watsoever? nope. but it does add attacks.

[Asketes]

i have personally tested with and without twf and it DOES affect unarmed combat. make any sense watsoever? nope. but it does add attacks.

isn't that what i just said?

i assume you mean non-monk unarmed attacks, to which i say: that's actually pretty funny and awesome. but wouldn't be used. hehe

[Azmode]

I do apolgize for having the same topic as others... So let me add some more information...

I'm a STR/WIS monk. With dex maxing out at 18... Should I go and get ITWF/GTWF? And any other two weapon feats?

Also - why are there so many people who say that TWF doesn't work with handwraps - while others do? It's such a cloudy topic...

Alright, I believe you... I always wondered why fists weren't considered TWF anyway ; ) hehehe... I have a base dex of 15, and I figure I could pop that up to 18 - which I need for GM Air stance ; ).

I just hope this is in fact a bug and if it is - wonder if they'll change it. As I recall it really shouldn't effect you, but I never did keep up on all the changes to DnD.

So one more question then - what other feats for TWF should I take? Other then ITWF and GTWF, as if your information is still correct - would be really STUPID not to take.

[Asketes]

not stupid, but you'll be losing out on a TON of dps.

honestly you couldn't take better feats in terms of damage output.

[Azmode]

not stupid, but you'll be losing out on a TON of dps.

honestly you couldn't take better feats in terms of damage output.

Aye - even if your numbers are 50% off - the DPS is still enough. I couldn't name any other feats that would boost your DPS as much in every way.

I still think it's odd that it does work though. I hope it's not a "bug" that they fix...

BTW I forgot to add - I appreciate the help fellas. I really have problems believing people in /advice - when half are saying "it does work" and the other half are stating it doesn't. Then when I asked a few level 15-20 handwrap monks that were on - they said it didn't do anything.

[Uska]

As a long time player of a monk I can it does help and anyone who says it doesnt isnt really paying attention.

[TreknaQudane]

Aye - even if your numbers are 50% off - the DPS is still enough. I couldn't name any other feats that would boost your DPS as much in every way.

I still think it's odd that it does work though. I hope it's not a "bug" that they fix...

BTW I forgot to add - I appreciate the help fellas. I really have problems believing people in /advice - when half are saying "it does work" and the other half are stating it doesn't. Then when I asked a few level 15-20 handwrap monks that were on - they said it didn't do anything.

When monks were first released, TWF did not work with unarmed combat.

Of course you're then stuck with a class whose signature combat style of fighting unarmed is inferior to using two kama because of the number of attacks they get TWF compared to unarmed.

Luckily for Monks, Turbine later allowed TWF/ITWF/GTWF to work with unarmed combat. Things like Two Weapon Defense, Two Weapon Blocking, or the Tempest enhancement do not however.

[Gadget2775]

Patch Two Release Notes

**SNIP**
■Greater Two Weapon Fighting now grants only an extra off-hand attack on the first attack animation instead of the first and fourth. This affects both unarmed monks and two weapon fighting characters.
**/SNIP**

[Asketes]

Patch Two Release Notes

**SNIP**
■Greater Two Weapon Fighting now grants only an extra off-hand attack on the first attack animation instead of the first and fourth. This affects both unarmed monks and two weapon fighting characters.
**/SNIP**

also i believe it's an extra +1 to atk. i could be wrong.

considering you are grandmaster of the storms. you atk obscenely fast, thus those extra attacks very much so add up.

picture this:

million hit point raid boss.

my barb is MT and the only one hitting on the boss.

I go so far as to add the 1point of force damage per hit on my weapon. If I'm beating on Horoth for like 5-10 minutes on hard, I need to squeeze that dps. That's my philosophy I guess.

It's all opinion and playstyle though.

[Shima-ra]

A monk without two weapon fighting is a sad gimped little creature...
Thats just the way it is, you need it.
If cant access because of your dex, reroll or lvl and put points in your dex until you reach 15 or 16.

[Arkat]

A monk without two weapon fighting is a sad gimped little creature...
Thats just the way it is, you need it.
If cant access because of your dex, reroll or lvl and put points in your dex until you reach 15 or 16.

Agreed!

+1 Rep for you!

[Junts]

a mmonk with the full twf chain gets as many attacks as a dual wielding gtwf normal melee, with no offhand penalty to str or anything else

[Mobeius]

Okay... I use to play ADnD, back 10 years ago... And I play a lot of bioware games- like Baldurs gate, and NWN... Monk, was always my favorite class to play in either of those games.

Well in 2ED, it was one weapon, in 3rd the TWF chain affects monk unarmed attacks, in DDO they didnt work at first (amongst other things) when monks were introduced. As time has progressed they have added that and improved other things since then. They are continueing to make improvements as we speak as changing the damage on the elemental attacks (on the test servers as I hear it), they added craftable rings since there are no GS Handwraps.

Before some ask, there is some issue with the programing (as the developers tell us) and not recognizing handwraps as weapons and instead count as a "buff". So dont get things that grant weapon effects other than the raid rings, like ethereal bracers or spectral gloves because they dont work for monks.

[lanthan]

The programing problem is because unarmed monks don't use weapons they are weapons.

They seem to have chosen that way to implement it so as to be able to change a monks unarmed dmg via feats.