WF Pure Paladin

[Thirsterhall]

I'm looking for any and all constructive input on this Warforge Pure Paladin build.

A few notes.

Will be running with a static group of all WF chars.
Not looking for the "I better then everyone else" build just don't want to make any glaring big mistakes.
Not overly concerned about end game but don't want to useless if/when we do get there.
Limited to 28pt build.

Basic plan is to wield two-handed sword most of the time and switch to tower shield for door blocking etc when appropriate.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(20 Paladin) 
Hit Points: 322
Spell Points: 255 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 12
Will: 6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Stats          Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    19
Dexterity            10                    10
Constitution         16                    18
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               10                    10
Charisma             14                    14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               0                    -5
Bluff                 2                     2
Concentration         3                     7
Diplomacy             2                     2
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                     2
Heal                  0                     0
Hide                  0                    -5
Intimidate            4                    13
Jump                  2                    -1
Listen                0                     0
Move Silently         0                    -5
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                  0                     0
Swim                  2                    -6
Tumble                n/a                  n/a
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Adamantine Body
Enhancement: Follower of the Lord of Blades
Enhancement: Warforged Damage Reduction I


Level 2 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Tower Shield Proficiency
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I


Level 4 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I


Level 5 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Bladesworn Transformation
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I


Level 7 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Warforged Damage Reduction II


Level 8 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Light I


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude I


Level 10 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II


Level 11 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Light II
Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude II


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys II


Level 13 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III


Level 14 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III


Level 16 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II


Level 17 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Light III


Level 19 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Weapons of Good
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice III

[CaptGrim]

I'm not sure how worried about AC you are but, The max dex bonus increase that DOS2 and DOS 3 are supposed to provide doesn't work for WF with adamantine body feat.

It is listed as a bug for stalwart defender(fighter PrE) but not as a known issue for the DoS PrE.

I've bug reported it and it will most likely be fixed when SD gets fixed. But you should know, I had to learn the hard way.

[Tyjet]

I think pure paladins make great damage builds, but it seems like the skills and feats are too tight if you want to keep the tanking role.
For pure, I suggest dropping tower shield proficiency and taking power attack and the Knight of the Chalice Prestige path instead (I'd probably go with 16/8/14/10/8/14 to qualify for 2 handed fighting before level 4). It would play similar to a barbarian, without hurting itself from Frenzy.

If you want to tank, you may want to consider taking 2 (or more) levels of fighter
Gain:
Intimidate as a class skill
+1 Str enhancement
3 extra feat (2 bonus feats + free tower shield proficiency) (Power Attack is a great damage boost on a 2 hander)

Lose:
Weapons of Good capstone (how long does one play at level 20 compared to 1-19?)
1 2nd, 2 3rd and 2 4th level spell slots.
30 less spell points
1 smite evil and -6 damage per smite

Also, look into dropping DEX and WIS by 2 each and increasing INT to 12.
You would still get your max dex to AC and ability to cast 4th level spells from +4 and +6 equipment; therefore, all you lose is 1 reflex & will and a handful of spellpoints.
It would allow you to max out Intimidate and UMD and be a +1 INT tome away from taking combat expertise at higher levels if you so desire it.

Here's what I would do for a pure tome-free 2hf WF paladin (could easily go 16/8/16/8/8/14 to start if you don't want UMD):

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(20 Paladin) 
Hit Points: 342
Spell Points: 246 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 23
Reflex: 13
Will: 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Stats          Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    17
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             14                    21

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               1                     5
Bluff                 2                     5
Concentration         2                     3
Diplomacy             2                     5
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                     5
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                 -1                    -6
Intimidate            2                     5
Jump                  3                    -2
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently        -1                    -6
Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     0
Search                0                     0
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  3                    -7
Tumble               n/a                   -5
Use Magic Device      4                    16

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Adamantine Body
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I


Level 2 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Follower of the Lord of Blades


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude I


Level 4 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I


Level 5 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I


Level 7 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Bladesworn Transformation


Level 8 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude II


Level 10 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II


Level 11 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II


Level 13 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma III


Level 14 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude III


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I


Level 16 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II


Level 17 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I


Level 19 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III

For some reason the will save drops from +13 to +7 at level 20 and I forgot to work in the capstone enhancement.

[Thirsterhall]

Thanks for the reply Tyjet. While looking over the build I noticed you didn't include the WF DR enhancements. Are they not worth it or just not enough points?

[Tyjet]

I think the enhancements of the build could be better, I'm no expert.
However, that build is not intended to be tanking and enhancements are tight (I would love to put more points into the aura)
If I notice you getting pounded by monsters, my wizard would cast stoneskin and displacement on you.
On that note, it could be worthwhile to retrain adamantine body out once you feel the AC and DR is no longer significant.

I'd love for a more experienced player to weigh in on this issue.

[Thirsterhall]

I think the enhancements of the build could be better, I'm no expert.
However, that build is not intended to be tanking and enhancements are tight (I would love to put more points into the aura)
If I notice you getting pounded by monsters, my wizard would cast stoneskin and displacement on you.
On that note, it could be worthwhile to retrain adamantine body out once you feel the AC and DR is no longer significant.

I'd love for a more experienced player to weigh in on this issue.

LOL ya enhancements give me a headache.

[ARcdevil]

glares that toughness is so late in the build
looks good
might try it with my own little take on it.

[Khayvan]

I think your starting STR is a little too low for any serious melee character. I would dump DEX and drop WIS to 8 to boost STR to 16. Put all level-ups into STR. This would be the same build I've been using for my dwarf paladin, also in a static group, and it's been a very good toon.

From playing paladins with both greatswords and greataxes, I suggest using a falchion. The increased crit rate means a lot with Smites. Unless you're going for a particular flavor, falchion is much better that a GS. You'll still have to go GS when you conjure you're holy weapon at level 14+ though.

I'd also really advise going Knight of the Chalice. It's much improved DPS over Defender against many targets in the later game, and fits the THF concept better, IMO. Doing a good AC tank is also much harder than a good DPS build, because of the amount of high-end gear you need to grind. Unless you've got a lot of twink stuff stashed away, KotC will be much easier to play and be good at.

Enhancements for a KotC are fairly easy: pick everything that boosts your DPS first, and then the things that increase survivabilty second. Get all your Smites, Exalted Smites, etc, then start looking at Toughness and such. AP on paladins are tight, you won't get everything you want, but you can be great if you stay focused.

Hope that helps a bit.

[deathtouch]

I think your starting STR is a little too low for any serious melee character. I would dump DEX and drop WIS to 8 to boost STR to 16. Put all level-ups into STR. This would be the same build I've been using for my dwarf paladin, also in a static group, and it's been a very good toon.

From playing paladins with both greatswords and greataxes, I suggest using a falchion. The increased crit rate means a lot with Smites. Unless you're going for a particular flavor, falchion is much better that a GS. You'll still have to go GS when you conjure you're holy weapon at level 14+ though.

I'd also really advise going Knight of the Chalice. It's much improved DPS over Defender against many targets in the later game, and fits the THF concept better, IMO. Doing a good AC tank is also much harder than a good DPS build, because of the amount of high-end gear you need to grind. Unless you've got a lot of twink stuff stashed away, KotC will be much easier to play and be good at.

Enhancements for a KotC are fairly easy: pick everything that boosts your DPS first, and then the things that increase survivabilty second. Get all your Smites, Exalted Smites, etc, then start looking at Toughness and such. AP on paladins are tight, you won't get everything you want, but you can be great if you stay focused.

Hope that helps a bit.

What he/she says!

+Rep for a good well thought out post.

I would really go KOC the extra damage against evil outsiders is to good to miss and don't multiclass weapons of good is pretty good also. Falchion for the win until you get Epic Sword of Shadows. Make sure you take Divine Sacrifice.