battle clerics

[rduggins]

battle clerics the worst thing out there. espeacily ones in group. if a cleric does both they suck at everything. battle clerics always waste the group cause there to busy healing theme self after dying and not done any damage to the monster.like how stupid can these people get

[BangsLiekWhoa]

Sounds like rant, but its actually very true. A lot of people new to the game need to hear this before they make characters that will be useless later.

[Ironforge_Clan]

Hahahahahahaha....oh you're actually serious?!?!?!

First of all the word is ******** not retarted so based upon that I would hope that anyone reading your post would take what you say with a grain of salt. I would also presume that your rant is an backlash because you had a terrible cleric in your group and not because he or she was actually a battle cleric. First and second rules of this game be self sufficient and play smart so you don't have to depend upon someone else to take care of you.

[BangsLiekWhoa]

Hahahahahahaha....oh you're actually serious?!?!?!

First of all the word is ******** not retarted so based upon that I would hope that anyone reading your post would take what you say with a grain of salt. I would also presume that your rant is an backlash because you had a terrible cleric in your group and not because he or she was actually a battle cleric. First and second rules of this game be self sufficient and play smart so you don't have to depend upon someone else to take care of you.

So, you disabled rep b/c you didn't want negative rep? Is that because you don't know how this game works?

Battle cleric is an awesome choice in PnP (I often play one with great success). However, in DDO, it not that great a choice. The problem is that once you get to higher levels you are not good enough at healing or tanking so you are pretty much useless. Sure he may not be able to spell things correctly even with spell check, but he still has a point even if it is a rant.

[Junts]

So, you disabled rep b/c you didn't want negative rep? Is that because you don't know how this game works?

Battle cleric is an awesome choice in PnP (I often play one with great success). However, in DDO, it not that great a choice. The problem is that once you get to higher levels you are not good enough at healing or tanking so you are pretty much useless. Sure he may not be able to spell things correctly even with spell check, but he still has a point even if it is a rant.

You're making Ghallanda look bad, I dont htink Ironforge is the one in danger of negative reputation.

Considering you're playing on a server with some of the best battle cleric builds on DDO, you're oblivious or outright wrongheaded.

[Ironforge_Clan]

So, you disabled rep b/c you didn't want negative rep? Is that because you don't know how this game works?

Battle cleric is an awesome choice in PnP (I often play one with great success). However, in DDO, it not that great a choice. The problem is that once you get to higher levels you are not good enough at healing or tanking so you are pretty much useless. Sure he may not be able to spell things correctly even with spell check, but he still has a point even if it is a rant.

The rep is disable because I see no point in a forum reputation. It means very little to me. As far as how the game works, well I feel I've been playing long enough (August 2006) to know how things are. Am I an elite player...nope no interest. Do I figure out every little stat and detail to min/max my characters...nope no interest in that either. Do I grind a quest to death just to get the perfect piece of loot...sorry would rather have fun.

Yes there are battle clerics out there and you quickly learn who they are. The issue is two fold. First some players try to do too much and lose focus on balancing both the melee and the healing. Second and I think this might be the op issue is that some groups grab a cleric thinking he or she is just going to sit back and heal them when they get in over their heads.

I play a battle cleric...dwarf 18c/1f. I sit at just around 360 hp and just under 1850 sp. My gear isn't all set yet so I'll top out over 400 hp and 2000 sp when all is said and done. Can I heal...bet your sweat butt I can. Can I melee...yeah if something comes near me I'm swinging that old dwarven axe. I'm not uber dps build but given time between my axe and spells I'm killing it. Oh and yeah I am an okay enough player to be able to swing that axe and heal my party at the same time.

[valorik]

threads like this are hilarious

[Narmolanya]

I have played and run with some very awsome battle clerics. It is quite easy to do damage and heal at the same time. However in light of the new FTP situation and the lame battle clerics I have had the horror of grouping with latly I sadly have to agree.

[rduggins]

I have played and run with some very awsome battle clerics. It is quite easy to do damage and heal at the same time. However in light of the new FTP situation and the lame battle clerics I have had the horror of grouping with latly I sadly have to agree.

it was low level wasnt it

[sirgog]

So, you disabled rep b/c you didn't want negative rep? Is that because you don't know how this game works?

Battle cleric is an awesome choice in PnP (I often play one with great success). However, in DDO, it not that great a choice. The problem is that once you get to higher levels you are not good enough at healing or tanking so you are pretty much useless. Sure he may not be able to spell things correctly even with spell check, but he still has a point even if it is a rant.

Not at all true.

Battle clerics (assuming a Clr18/Ftr2 level split) have their main heal spells heal for the following percentage of a Clr20's heals:

Heal: 100%
Mass Cure Moderate Wounds: 93.75%
Mass Cure Light Wounds: 92%
Mass Heal: 90%
(Whilst less often used, the other healing spells - Mass Cure Serious/Critical Wounds, Cure Critical Wounds etc all have 94.7% or better effect from a Clr18/Ftr2; the higher level Mass Cures may become more useful in future as more players get access to Superior Devotion 8 or Superior Ardor 8 or Superior Efficacy 8)

That's *all* they are behind in healing. Clr19/Pal1 builds are even higher healing.

And, with one more person doing significant melee DPS, enemies go down faster.


At present endgame, there is *no* quest where I would rather have a Ftr20 max-DPS Kensai build and a Clr20 healbot build to two equivalently geared, well built Clr18/Ftr2 builds. More melee DPS, more healing, more Bladebarriers (even if the save DC is lower than that of the healbot), more wipe prevention (two people that can cast Quickened True Resurrection).

[Ironforge_Clan]

not At All True.

Battle Clerics (assuming A Clr18/ftr2 Level Split) Have Their Main Heal Spells Heal For The Following Percentage Of A Clr20's Heals:

Heal: 100%
Mass Cure Moderate Wounds: 93.75%
Mass Cure Light Wounds: 92%
Mass Heal: 90%
(whilst Less Often Used, The Other Healing Spells - Mass Cure Serious/critical Wounds, Cure Critical Wounds Etc All Have 94.7% Or Better Effect From A Clr18/ftr2; The Higher Level Mass Cures May Become More Useful In Future As More Players Get Access To Superior Devotion 8 Or Superior Ardor 8 Or Superior Efficacy 8)

That's *all* They Are Behind In Healing. Clr19/pal1 Builds Are Even Higher Healing.

And, With One More Person Doing Significant Melee Dps, Enemies Go Down Faster.


At Present Endgame, There Is *no* Quest Where I Would Rather Have A Ftr20 Max-dps Kensai Build And A Clr20 Healbot Build To Two Equivalently Geared, Well Built Clr18/ftr2 Builds. More Melee Dps, More Healing, More Bladebarriers (even If The Save Dc Is Lower Than That Of The Healbot), More Wipe Prevention (two People That Can Cast Quickened True Resurrection).

Qft!

[Enochroot]

At present endgame, there is *no* quest where I would rather have a Ftr20 max-DPS Kensai build and a Clr20 healbot build to two equivalently geared, well built Clr18/Ftr2 builds. More melee DPS, more healing, more Bladebarriers (even if the save DC is lower than that of the healbot), more wipe prevention (two people that can cast Quickened True Resurrection).

I'd rather have at least one or two pure clerics in ToD myself - at least how most Sarlona groups run part 3 - it's too important not to let the MT go down and it's the number one cause of wipes on part3, imo.


Cleric cap = underrated.


Not saying I wouldn't rather replace all the fighter's in my groups with bc's necessarily though ...

[Stabsy]

It seems to me that a group which is 5 people needing nannying and a nannybot is stronger than a group which is 5 people needing nannying and a battlecleric.

However a group which is 4 people needing nannying, a battlecleric and a nannybot is stronger still.

[Twerpp]

Not at all true.

Battle clerics (assuming a Clr18/Ftr2 level split) have their main heal spells heal for the following percentage of a Clr20's heals:

Heal: 100%
Mass Cure Moderate Wounds: 93.75%
Mass Cure Light Wounds: 92%
Mass Heal: 90%
(Whilst less often used, the other healing spells - Mass Cure Serious/Critical Wounds, Cure Critical Wounds etc all have 94.7% or better effect from a Clr18/Ftr2; the higher level Mass Cures may become more useful in future as more players get access to Superior Devotion 8 or Superior Ardor 8 or Superior Efficacy 8)

That's *all* they are behind in healing. Clr19/Pal1 builds are even higher healing.

And, with one more person doing significant melee DPS, enemies go down faster.


At present endgame, there is *no* quest where I would rather have a Ftr20 max-DPS Kensai build and a Clr20 healbot build to two equivalently geared, well built Clr18/Ftr2 builds. More melee DPS, more healing, more Bladebarriers (even if the save DC is lower than that of the healbot), more wipe prevention (two people that can cast Quickened True Resurrection).

You are assuming an 18/2 split and assuming the person knows how to build and play. I've seen even 18/2 with zero AoE spell choices. And people are building worse garbage than that and calling themselves battleclerics. So if you know these guys personally I might agree but a 90% of the battleclerics out there are trash. Those "more Bladebarriers" are useless too BTW without maximize and empower, ya know, the feats they skipped so they could have one extra offhand swing and one extra ac while holding two weapons...

[Kilnedric]

Not at all true.

Battle clerics (assuming a Clr18/Ftr2 level split) have their main heal spells heal for the following percentage of a Clr20's heals:

Heal: 100%
Mass Cure Moderate Wounds: 93.75%
Mass Cure Light Wounds: 92%
Mass Heal: 90%
(Whilst less often used, the other healing spells - Mass Cure Serious/Critical Wounds, Cure Critical Wounds etc all have 94.7% or better effect from a Clr18/Ftr2; the higher level Mass Cures may become more useful in future as more players get access to Superior Devotion 8 or Superior Ardor 8 or Superior Efficacy 8)

That's *all* they are behind in healing. Clr19/Pal1 builds are even higher healing.

And, with one more person doing significant melee DPS, enemies go down faster.


At present endgame, there is *no* quest where I would rather have a Ftr20 max-DPS Kensai build and a Clr20 healbot build to two equivalently geared, well built Clr18/Ftr2 builds. More melee DPS, more healing, more Bladebarriers (even if the save DC is lower than that of the healbot), more wipe prevention (two people that can cast Quickened True Resurrection).

+1 sir.

As a fairly new player myself, my opinion doesn't weigh as much as many here, but I'd like to add one thing for the OP: COMMUNICATION IS KEY.

Communicate to your group the role you are playing and the roles you expect everyone else to play. If I know I'm the "main healer", I'll play differently than if there are other healing classes in the group and nobody says anything.

[Hjarki]

At present endgame, there is *no* quest where I would rather have a Ftr20 max-DPS Kensai build and a Clr20 healbot build to two equivalently geared, well built Clr18/Ftr2 builds. More melee DPS, more healing, more Bladebarriers (even if the save DC is lower than that of the healbot), more wipe prevention (two people that can cast Quickened True Resurrection).

I couldn't disagree more. A max DPS melee combat build will do over 150% of the damage of a battle cleric. He will also have a shot of actually standing up to the kind of damage that enemies dish out. He will also bring absurdly-high-save-DC melee combat maneuvers in many cases. You simply can't replace him with a battle cleric.

What you can replace with the battle cleric is the healbot.

[SlipperyPete]

Not at all true.

Battle clerics (assuming a Clr18/Ftr2 level split) have their main heal spells heal for the following percentage of a Clr20's heals:

Heal: 100%
Mass Cure Moderate Wounds: 93.75%
Mass Cure Light Wounds: 92%
Mass Heal: 90%
(Whilst less often used, the other healing spells - Mass Cure Serious/Critical Wounds, Cure Critical Wounds etc all have 94.7% or better effect from a Clr18/Ftr2; the higher level Mass Cures may become more useful in future as more players get access to Superior Devotion 8 or Superior Ardor 8 or Superior Efficacy 8)

That's *all* they are behind in healing. Clr19/Pal1 builds are even higher healing.

And, with one more person doing significant melee DPS, enemies go down faster.


At present endgame, there is *no* quest where I would rather have a Ftr20 max-DPS Kensai build and a Clr20 healbot build to two equivalently geared, well built Clr18/Ftr2 builds. More melee DPS, more healing, more Bladebarriers (even if the save DC is lower than that of the healbot), more wipe prevention (two people that can cast Quickened True Resurrection).

If I could rep you I would.

[Thame]

So, you disabled rep b/c you didn't want negative rep? Is that because you don't know how this game works?

Battle cleric is an awesome choice in PnP (I often play one with great success). However, in DDO, it not that great a choice. The problem is that once you get to higher levels you are not good enough at healing or tanking so you are pretty much useless. Sure he may not be able to spell things correctly even with spell check, but he still has a point even if it is a rant.

With a narrowminded OPINION like this your asking to get some major flaming from people.

There are plenty of Battle clerics that can heal and fight at the same time. The problem is too many narrowminded individuals see the cleric/fs symbol beside a name and stereotype them to be a healer. So when a battle cleric steps into a group SOME individuals see them as gimped healers.
SO I look at this in 2 ways.
1) There are plenty of battle clerics capable of being a healer and very good DPS at the same time. VERY far from useless If you feel they are gimp then apparently you are not capable of making one correctly.
2) If you make a build that needs a constant healer to keep it alive, I would say that your build is actually the useless one not the battle cleric.

[joesixpack]

This is kind of interesting thread, from a healing perspective, Id rather have a group of ALL battle clerics, that can buff and heal themselves if neccesary, than have one warforged in the group blundering ahead and whining because they didnt get healed when they aggroed the whole room. Now a warforged wizard or sorc that can repair themselves is a different matter, but it more often seems to be a barbarian, and the casters in the group shouldnt have to waste their time, and cut their dmg, tryin to keep a silly golem alive either.