battle clerics

[Ironforge_Clan]

not At All True.

Battle Clerics (assuming A Clr18/ftr2 Level Split) Have Their Main Heal Spells Heal For The Following Percentage Of A Clr20's Heals:

Heal: 100%
Mass Cure Moderate Wounds: 93.75%
Mass Cure Light Wounds: 92%
Mass Heal: 90%
(whilst Less Often Used, The Other Healing Spells - Mass Cure Serious/critical Wounds, Cure Critical Wounds Etc All Have 94.7% Or Better Effect From A Clr18/ftr2; The Higher Level Mass Cures May Become More Useful In Future As More Players Get Access To Superior Devotion 8 Or Superior Ardor 8 Or Superior Efficacy 8)

That's *all* They Are Behind In Healing. Clr19/pal1 Builds Are Even Higher Healing.

And, With One More Person Doing Significant Melee Dps, Enemies Go Down Faster.


At Present Endgame, There Is *no* Quest Where I Would Rather Have A Ftr20 Max-dps Kensai Build And A Clr20 Healbot Build To Two Equivalently Geared, Well Built Clr18/ftr2 Builds. More Melee Dps, More Healing, More Bladebarriers (even If The Save Dc Is Lower Than That Of The Healbot), More Wipe Prevention (two People That Can Cast Quickened True Resurrection).

Qft!

[Zippo]

I play a battle cleric...dwarf 18c/1f. I sit at just around 360 hp and just under 1850 sp. My gear isn't all set yet so I'll top out over 400 hp and 2000 sp when all is said and done. Can I heal...bet your sweet butt I can. Can I melee...yeah if something comes near me I'm swinging that old dwarven axe. I'm not uber dps build but given time between my axe and spells I'm killing it. Oh and yeah I am an okay enough player to be able to swing that axe and heal my party at the same time.

fixed that one for ya

I'm just sayin

[Enochroot]

At present endgame, there is *no* quest where I would rather have a Ftr20 max-DPS Kensai build and a Clr20 healbot build to two equivalently geared, well built Clr18/Ftr2 builds. More melee DPS, more healing, more Bladebarriers (even if the save DC is lower than that of the healbot), more wipe prevention (two people that can cast Quickened True Resurrection).

I'd rather have at least one or two pure clerics in ToD myself - at least how most Sarlona groups run part 3 - it's too important not to let the MT go down and it's the number one cause of wipes on part3, imo.


Cleric cap = underrated.


Not saying I wouldn't rather replace all the fighter's in my groups with bc's necessarily though ...

[DDOisFree]

My first character that I made was a 28 point dwarf 1 fighter / 15 Cleric (stopped there as Im not getting a plat sigil on my 28 point). I fought in melee with dwarven axes, and used Maximised + Empowered blade barriers on top of healing.

Everyone that I played with and people from my guild really liked my build and I was good at healing, knowing when I should be focusing on healing and when to fight. It is a good build, but I have decided that for my 32 point character I want to go pure Cleric for the extra SP, and also because that once I had Blade Barrier with Empower + Maximise, I really didnt feel the need to melee anymore but rather try and get agro and run around through my barriers

[Stabsy]

It seems to me that a group which is 5 people needing nannying and a nannybot is stronger than a group which is 5 people needing nannying and a battlecleric.

However a group which is 4 people needing nannying, a battlecleric and a nannybot is stronger still.

[Thame]

So, you disabled rep b/c you didn't want negative rep? Is that because you don't know how this game works?

Battle cleric is an awesome choice in PnP (I often play one with great success). However, in DDO, it not that great a choice. The problem is that once you get to higher levels you are not good enough at healing or tanking so you are pretty much useless. Sure he may not be able to spell things correctly even with spell check, but he still has a point even if it is a rant.

With a narrowminded OPINION like this your asking to get some major flaming from people.

There are plenty of Battle clerics that can heal and fight at the same time. The problem is too many narrowminded individuals see the cleric/fs symbol beside a name and stereotype them to be a healer. So when a battle cleric steps into a group SOME individuals see them as gimped healers.
SO I look at this in 2 ways.
1) There are plenty of battle clerics capable of being a healer and very good DPS at the same time. VERY far from useless If you feel they are gimp then apparently you are not capable of making one correctly.
2) If you make a build that needs a constant healer to keep it alive, I would say that your build is actually the useless one not the battle cleric.

[joesixpack]

This is kind of interesting thread, from a healing perspective, Id rather have a group of ALL battle clerics, that can buff and heal themselves if neccesary, than have one warforged in the group blundering ahead and whining because they didnt get healed when they aggroed the whole room. Now a warforged wizard or sorc that can repair themselves is a different matter, but it more often seems to be a barbarian, and the casters in the group shouldnt have to waste their time, and cut their dmg, tryin to keep a silly golem alive either.

[Yagi]

Hi stupid barb first-character tourist here interloping on your board learning stuff. So what is a "battle cleric" anyways? I see alot on the board disparaging them, but in game everything seems to be fine. Is a battle cleric a melee only cleric or something? Because I see plenty of clerics who take offensive actions in encounters and there is nothing about them that sucks as far as I can tell so if I am wrong feel free to enlighten me. What sucks about all the mobs in a pull falling to the ground? What sucks about a caster getting stunned that was probably going to hold me? What sucks about a cleric casting a spell that outright KILLS the caster stragling in the back while we engage the main group? And if the cleric IS meleeing well I see ones meleeing all the time that seem to be helpful as hell. What sucks about a cleric that wades into a group of mobs and paralyzes a bunch of them? I've grouped with clerics who run in and hit every mob (that doesnt explode merely by being within proximity of my axe during one of her tantrums), yet I still survive with their help and even feel confident enough to run frenzy on large pulls. Am I suposed to scorn these clerics that are in the front lines with me because they maybe do less damage then me with their weapon? I could just "insert class here" and say the same thing about any class/build situationally. Or I could say the same thing about myself when I am the one being outshined by another dps'er. But I dont want to because it seems silly and shortsighted and that sort've logic would require alot of cherrypicking and a combination of denial and ignorance to be used in a generalization about clerics anyways.

Tbh I dont see how it even matters as long as we get a completion.

[Thorzian]

sorry about this thread guys. the op is a kid... .mine. you wont be hearing from him anymore

[Phidius]

Hi stupid barb first-character tourist here interloping on your board learning stuff. So what is a "battle cleric" anyways? I see alot on the board disparaging them, but in game everything seems to be fine. Is a battle cleric a melee only cleric or something? Because I see plenty of clerics who take offensive actions in encounters and there is nothing about them that sucks as far as I can tell so if I am wrong feel free to enlighten me. What sucks about all the mobs in a pull falling to the ground? What sucks about a caster getting stunned that was probably going to hold me? What sucks about a cleric casting a spell that outright KILLS the caster stragling in the back while we engage the main group? And if the cleric IS meleeing well I see ones meleeing all the time that seem to be helpful as hell. What sucks about a cleric that wades into a group of mobs and paralyzes a bunch of them? I've grouped with clerics who run in and hit every mob (that doesnt explode merely by being within proximity of my axe during one of her tantrums), yet I still survive with their help and even feel confident enough to run frenzy on large pulls. Am I suposed to scorn these clerics that are in the front lines with me because they maybe do less damage then me with their weapon? I could just "insert class here" and say the same thing about any class/build situationally. Or I could say the same thing about myself when I am the one being outshined by another dps'er. But I dont want to because it seems silly and shortsighted and that sort've logic would require alot of cherrypicking and a combination of denial and ignorance to be used in a generalization about clerics anyways.

Tbh I dont see how it even matters as long as we get a completion.

That's part of the problem.

Definition #1 (BC1): A cleric who let's other people in the party die while the cleric swings a weapon.
Definition #2 (BC2): A cleric who uses every weapon in their arsenal to complete the quest.

The biggest difference between the 2 is the amount of skill required. For some reason, though, BC haters think that this kind of skill is some kind of favor reward, and shouldn't be practiced by new players.

sorry about this thread guys. the op is a kid... .mine. you wont be hearing from him anymore

:O

That's too bad - the thread has been rather entertaining.

[Saspen71]

battle clerics the worst thing out there. espeacily ones in group. if a cleric does both they suck at everything. battle clerics always waste the group cause there to busy healing theme self after dying and not done any damage to the monster.like how stupid can these people get

How about getting some of the players claiming that they've played alongside some awesome battle clerics getting some of those battle clerics to make a few posts with hints, tips, and tricks about how to be a good battle cleric, instead of humoring crybabies like the OP who obviously came to flame clerics because they had a bad run?

It would achieve at least 2 things.

1 - Those players thinking of making a battle cleric would have something to work with and build from (information-wise).

2 - I could have the information I came seeking, instead of reading this poorly spelled rant and the dozens of responses that it prompted.


For the OP: It seems like battle clerics, how I understand them, are made mainly to be a standalone character who could contribute backup healing to a group, but I don't think they should be relied on as THE main healer of a group. That's what healing clerics are for. Not everyone is going to play a cleric to be a healer, but they play clerics because clerics can heal, and they want to be able to solo effectively in the game. They want to solo, to avoid people like YOU. Surprised? I'm not. They aren't playing clerics to be your healer. Anyone with any sense of self-value won't give a rosey rat's behind less about what you want or need.

Here's the bottom line: You name the game, the rest of the players--players like YOU, treat healers like dirt. Why would anyone want to subject themselves to that? I don't want to play a cleric to heal jerks like you. I want to play a cleric because it really stinks to be soloing in a quest when you can't heal yourself. Would my heals be lacking in a group situation? I'm sure they'd be trumped by a true healing cleric any day, but if I can pick and choose who I group with, I don't have to worry about that. Since most MMO players strike me as being D-Bags like you anyway, my grouping experiences will be limited no matter what class/spec I play, because I'd likely never group with you once I heard you spouting off in general chat. I got 50 bucks that says you came from the World of Warcraft community--where failure, being under-geared, not being a min/max player, and making mistakes are regarded as carnal sins that should be punishable by forcible re-roll or account closure.

[Creeper]

sorry about this thread guys. the op is a kid... .mine. you wont be hearing from him anymore

Lol, +1 for owning up to this Thor

[Dacian_Falx]

You don't have to be a split class cleric to be a battle cleric. With the faith based enhancements to utilize martial weapons and the buffs available, you can be a battle cleric when you want to be.

Hopefully you won't want to be when the party needs you to be focused on healing.

Sure, wielding the Greatsword of Awesomeness is wonderful at low levels, but really, do you think it will compare to an empowered maximized Blade Barrier? Would I like to wield the Greatsword of Awesomeness? sure would - but not at the expense of a feat or multi-class. Luckily the game allows me to wield said weapon for aesthetic purposes if not functional ones.

In my short experience so far, the other players in the party contribute more to party death than an unfocused battle cleric. Players not letting rogues disarm traps and causing AE damage to the party... or the time when the rogue was trying to disarm a trap and someone was all "I wanna see! lemme see! I wanna see!" and promptly died to and elite spike trap.

Good players, no matter the class or the game, are good players because they understand how the game plays. Simple things like the tank agro'ing a pack of hell-hounds and turning them *away* from the party go a heck of a long way to ensuring party success than a cleric who does or does not melee.

[Twerpp]

Not at all true.

Battle clerics (assuming a Clr18/Ftr2 level split) have their main heal spells heal for the following percentage of a Clr20's heals:

Heal: 100%
Mass Cure Moderate Wounds: 93.75%
Mass Cure Light Wounds: 92%
Mass Heal: 90%
(Whilst less often used, the other healing spells - Mass Cure Serious/Critical Wounds, Cure Critical Wounds etc all have 94.7% or better effect from a Clr18/Ftr2; the higher level Mass Cures may become more useful in future as more players get access to Superior Devotion 8 or Superior Ardor 8 or Superior Efficacy 8)

That's *all* they are behind in healing. Clr19/Pal1 builds are even higher healing.

And, with one more person doing significant melee DPS, enemies go down faster.


At present endgame, there is *no* quest where I would rather have a Ftr20 max-DPS Kensai build and a Clr20 healbot build to two equivalently geared, well built Clr18/Ftr2 builds. More melee DPS, more healing, more Bladebarriers (even if the save DC is lower than that of the healbot), more wipe prevention (two people that can cast Quickened True Resurrection).

You are assuming an 18/2 split and assuming the person knows how to build and play. I've seen even 18/2 with zero AoE spell choices. And people are building worse garbage than that and calling themselves battleclerics. So if you know these guys personally I might agree but a 90% of the battleclerics out there are trash. Those "more Bladebarriers" are useless too BTW without maximize and empower, ya know, the feats they skipped so they could have one extra offhand swing and one extra ac while holding two weapons...

[Geonis]

This is more like it. +1

They are good for the first several levels like he says, but not good later for new people. Also, like he said, "some melee capability, but both are very strong healers". This is how clerics should work.

I guess "later levels" means quests that are not out yet?

As I have soloed Shavarath quests as a "Battle Cleric".

Don't blame your (or others) inability to be self-sufficient on "Battle Clerics".

[angelwblueeyes]

Advice to clerics:

* Just let people die if need be.

Sometimes, When people play stupid, you just gotta. If a wizard is the first to run foward when the whole party screams TRAP!!!!!! There is just nothing you can do to keep that idiot alive. I'm sorry. Sometimes people have to learn how to play the hard way.

Advice to conscientious objectors:

* Good players will pull out a weapon in the right situation regardless of their class. Learn to use whatever dps capability your class has and learn to use it in the right situation.

I'm tired of people using bows on skeletons. They are STRONG against peircing and slashing. You want to kill a skeleton right, USE A BLUNT OBJECT!! They don't make slings and bullets in this game, so use something worth the ammo.

[Jiipster]

I've got a level 20 Battlecleric. His weapon of choice is either five or eleven other party members, depending on if I'm questing or raiding

[Psyker]

Darn, I was hoping to get a battle cleric build from this post.

[Enochroot]

Darn, I was hoping to get a battle cleric build from this post.

Battlecleric builds should never be posted. If you don't know how to build it, you won't know how to play it.


I've never said that before, but it's my new mantra, I'm a genius after a few drinks.

[sirgog]

Battlecleric builds should never be posted. If you don't know how to build it, you won't know how to play it.

I'm not so sure about that. A battlecleric isn't overly tough to play (I find my pure Monk more difficult), but it does require a few skills other characters don't.

Example: You need to be able to work out when to turn Quicken on and off. I had Quicken on about 50% of the time through the low to medium levels, but since getting the pinnacle of healing efficiency that is Mass Heal, Quicken remains on almost all the time.

You also need to have some sense of when you can and cannot survive aggro in combat.

How about getting some of the players claiming that they've played alongside some awesome battle clerics getting some of those battle clerics to make a few posts with hints, tips, and tricks about how to be a good battle cleric, instead of humoring crybabies like the OP who obviously came to flame clerics because they had a bad run?

It would achieve at least 2 things.

1 - Those players thinking of making a battle cleric would have something to work with and build from (information-wise).

2 - I could have the information I came seeking, instead of reading this poorly spelled rant and the dozens of responses that it prompted.


For the OP: It seems like battle clerics, how I understand them, are made mainly to be a standalone character who could contribute backup healing to a group, but I don't think they should be relied on as THE main healer of a group. That's what healing clerics are for. Not everyone is going to play a cleric to be a healer, but they play clerics because clerics can heal, and they want to be able to solo effectively in the game. They want to solo, to avoid people like YOU. Surprised? I'm not. They aren't playing clerics to be your healer. Anyone with any sense of self-value won't give a rosey rat's behind less about what you want or need.

Here's the bottom line: You name the game, the rest of the players--players like YOU, treat healers like dirt. Why would anyone want to subject themselves to that? I don't want to play a cleric to heal jerks like you. I want to play a cleric because it really stinks to be soloing in a quest when you can't heal yourself. Would my heals be lacking in a group situation? I'm sure they'd be trumped by a true healing cleric any day, but if I can pick and choose who I group with, I don't have to worry about that. Since most MMO players strike me as being D-Bags like you anyway, my grouping experiences will be limited no matter what class/spec I play, because I'd likely never group with you once I heard you spouting off in general chat. I got 50 bucks that says you came from the World of Warcraft community--where failure, being under-geared, not being a min/max player, and making mistakes are regarded as carnal sins that should be punishable by forcible re-roll or account closure.

I'm kinda thinking of posting something like that sometime soon. Gotta get around to writing it first. Maybe I might make a video tutorial for playing a BC.