Crit Rage and Imp Crit

[TheKeg]

Do these stack? If I want to use a great axe and take both of these, does that make my crit range 18-20 or just 19-20?

[Shade]

Yes they stack. Tho critical rage is no longer available to be trained.

[TheKeg]

Yes they stack. Tho critical rage is no longer available to be trained.

That sucks, why did they remove it? Will it be coming back?

[Shade]

That sucks, why did they remove it? Will it be coming back?

It was replaced by the Frenzied Berserker PrE. Which is all around superior anyways so it's not all bad.

[TheKeg]

It was replaced by the Frenzied Berserker PrE. Which is all around superior anyways so it's not all bad.

Thanks for the info.

[Charlemagne2]

Is frenzied beserker so superior, anyone dropped crit II to switch? Once u do u can never go back so I think a little feed back would be good

[Shade]

Is frenzied beserker so superior, anyone dropped crit II to switch? Once u do u can never go back so I think a little feed back would be good

Pretty well every barbarian I know has done so. Look around the forums, lots of threads about this already.

Pretty easy to see it in the numbers alone tho

+3 Crit multiplier, +6d6 dmg, +6 str, free Diehard feat, supreme cleave (if they ever fix it) vs
+2 crit range

[TommyBoy]

Pretty well every barbarian I know has done so. Look around the forums, lots of threads about this already.

Pretty easy to see it in the numbers alone tho

+3 Crit multiplier, +6d6 dmg, +6 str, free Diehard feat, supreme cleave (if they ever fix it) vs
+2 crit range

dont forget the cappy must take of damage boostand, the force to take cleave, the fact that you lose hp to us it, you lose hp for vicious, and you loss hp for the surpreme cleave

where barb crit rage i crit on a 13-20 and it cost me no hp.

imo thats better plus its less work on the clerics

[Arnya]

I'm sticking with CR2 on my 2rog/18barb.

But I am running up a new pure barb who will go FB3 + capstone so I can see what I may be missing out on....

[Nezichiend]

dont forget the cappy must take of damage boostand, the force to take cleave, the fact that you lose hp to us it, you lose hp for vicious, and you loss hp for the surpreme cleave

where barb crit rage i crit on a 13-20 and it cost me no hp.

imo thats better plus its less work on the clerics

Suuure you crit 8 times out of 20 (40%) but you crit for like *2 with rapiers, which sorta suck compared with khopeshs and picks. I get more 6 str (+3 each hit) and 6d6 every hit (3.5*6 = 21)
And thats without the +2 crit multiplier...

I think fb > crit rage

Yes I did switch outta crit rage.

[XCodes]

It depends entirely on what you're doing with your weapons. If you're using Heavy Picks then FB is way inferior, likewise for Crit Rage with a Falchion.

[Shade]

dont forget the cappy must take of damage boostand, the force to take cleave, the fact that you lose hp to us it, you lose hp for vicious, and you loss hp for the surpreme cleave

where barb crit rage i crit on a 13-20 and it cost me no hp.

imo thats better plus its less work on the clerics

You've obviously never tried FB.

First off - all the self damage is 100% optional. It's an unlimited. at will ability you use whenever you want. You could never use it, and still gain allot from FB.

Most of the benefit of FB has no drawback. +2 criit multiplier while raged and diehard feat. In the numbers - +2 crit multiplier provides the same overall dps boost as +2 crit range. Then the fact you can get lucky and 1 shot tough mobs with it going ,where crit rage cant... That alone makes it worth it. The frenzy benefits just make it that much better.

Any smart cleric also knows its less work to group with a Frenzied Berserker in endgame actually. Because they kill so much faster that the clerics need to use much less resources to complete the quest.

[Shade]

It depends entirely on what you're doing with your weapons. If you're using Heavy Picks then FB is way inferior, likewise for Crit Rage with a Falchion.

Not accurate. FB provides an equal benefit to all weapons, because it only works on a 19-20, regardless of your weapons critical range.

[mgoldb2]

Not accurate. FB provides an equal benefit to all weapons, because it only works on a 19-20, regardless of your weapons critical range.

FB favors all weapons the same. Crit rage does not.

Falc getting a bigger boost going from Crit rage to FB then a Pick because crit rage was a greater benefit to a Pick then a Falc.

With only looking at crit range and crit multiplier and no other bonus, Great axes break even, Falc comes out ahead, and Picks come out behind.

The other bonuses through I would agree make FB the better choice.

[mediocresurgeon]

dont forget the cappy must take of damage boostand, the force to take cleave, the fact that you lose hp to us it, you lose hp for vicious, and you loss hp for the surpreme cleave

where barb crit rage i crit on a 13-20 and it cost me no hp.

imo thats better plus its less work on the clerics

Consider that it's also easier on clerics if you kill stuff faster. Vicious damage barely moves your HP bar at high levels. Crit rage used to be hot $#!* back when you could WoP everything to death, but gameplay has evolved since then. Once you go FB, you'll never wish you could go back.

If you want a "Crit Rage" sort of build, just make a Kensai. You will quickly realize that a FB has far superior DPS than an expanded crit range--and that is not even considering Fortification and critical hit immunities.

Also, to add to the discussion about Crit rage favoring weapons with large crit ranges over weapon with large critical multipliers: in the DPS department, Crit Rage favored high multiplier weapons. The only reason Rapiers were popular on barbarians was because you could WoP faster with a rapier than you could a heavy pick.

Example:
Rapier with Critical Rage and Improved Critical was a 13-20/x2 (critical profile of 16)
Khopesh with Critical Rage and Improved Critical was a 15-20/x3 (critical profile of 18)
Even back in pre-Mod 9, the Khopesh still beat the Rapier for DPS with Crit Rage.
Barbarians used Rapiers for trash (WoP) and Heavy Picks for bosses (since they already had Improved Crit pierce).

[TommyBoy]

Suuure you crit 8 times out of 20 (40%) but you crit for like *2 with rapiers, which sorta suck compared with khopeshs and picks. I get more 6 str (+3 each hit) and 6d6 every hit (3.5*6 = 21)
And thats without the +2 crit multiplier...

I think fb > crit rage

Yes I did switch outta crit rage.

I don't use rapiers and its 40% per swing. out of 20 I tend to get about 9-10 crits. Ive had crit chains as long as 6 in a row. The biggest issue I have with FB is that it cost you HP sometime that little bit could mean the difference between surviving or not.

[Pallol_One-Eye]

I respecd 1 of my 2 WF Barbs to FB to test it out. The DPS difference is just overwhelming honestly.

Granted, I am a THF, Greataxe weilding, no AC WF Barb here....but when you see crits of 500+ as normal, that is friggin awesome.

I'm not even capped yet, but I can't wait to have a go at Death Frenzy. WIll have crit multiplier increased 2x, just shy of 700 HP unraged, not even sweating the minimal damage vicious will do.

I'm just sayin is all.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Pretty well every barbarian I know has done so. Look around the forums, lots of threads about this already.

Pretty easy to see it in the numbers alone tho

+3 Crit multiplier, +6d6 dmg, +6 str, free Diehard feat, supreme cleave (if they ever fix it) vs
+2 crit range

I've switched on one barbarian, but not the other. There is no doubt that during the FB time FB outperforms, but the CR2 is in effect at all times, which can be handy. While you might be raged at all times, you aren't necessarily FB raged at all times... Maybe its just me but I still feel bad for the clerics if I keep that running too much and am constantly beating myself to death.