So module 1 has respec...

[WeiQuinn]

What other games have multiclassing?

In the good ol' days, SWG had multi-classing, but then they changed it to single class only. Went from 34 classed to 9...

[Kistilan]

In the good ol' days, SWG had multi-classing, but then they changed it to single class only. Went from 34 classed to 9...

/cry

And that dream left me...

[SableShadow]

I'd like to see at least build order modified by Greater. I know a few guys who've been playing forever who've got the class levels they want, but not the build order to get what they want from the latest round of PrEs. Doesn't help pures, sure, but some long term multis would get a lot out of it.

[Kistilan]

I'd like to see at least build order modified by Greater. I know a few guys who've been playing forever who've got the class levels they want, but not the build order to get what they want from the latest round of PrEs. Doesn't help pures, sure, but some long term multis would get a lot out of it.

I see nothing wrong with the build order being a "slight tweak" they could offer.

Swopping out character levels would be too much FotM & un-D&D, best to leave that to the True Reincarnation. But yeah, why not let that guy that decided to take rogue second instead of first put his Rogue at first and then fix it? Or his second rogue at 11th so he can max out a specific skill in ranks, ya know?

Of course that also leads a little to the FotM option -- play as a rogue rogue with evasion from the get-go for the fist 10 levels instead of suffering as basically 1 level lower with a backstab and +2 dex and weak hd and then getting a lot better at level 11 or 12.

*shrugs* It's something to consider at least... I'm not really liking all the imnplications, but most are minor. And... the player would be paying for the advantage they gave themselves, possibly with money that helps development. They wouldn't be swopping out levels of different classes, just reordering -- it could be viable.

[SableShadow]

I'm not really liking all the imnplications, but most are minor.

I'm frankly amazed that folks haven't brought up Lesser, actually.

If I roll an arcane, I'm going to dump everything into str and con and master's touch/great axe myself up to where spells start sticking well, then put on my 'real' stats.

Similarly rogue, cleric...hell, any of the classes that develop later rather than earlier can (note: can, not will) benefit from doing something like this.

[Kistilan]

I'm frankly amazed that folks haven't brought up Lesser, actually.

If I roll an arcane, I'm going to dump everything into str and con and master's touch/great axe myself up to where spells start sticking well, then put on my 'real' stats.

Similarly rogue, cleric...hell, any of the classes that develop later rather than earlier can (note: can, not will) benefit from doing something like this.

This is very true. I recall being bested by a rogue in a Canith Crystal Elite trial -- only to find the attributes were wonky for a real rogue. Now this can be a common practice.

But, the individual has to be willing to pay for a Reincarnation, so Turbine will make money (or that individual pulls & makes haste with the item on a plan).

[SableShadow]

This is very true. I recall being bested by a rogue in a Canith Crystal Elite trial -- only to find the attributes were wonky for a real rogue. Now this can be a common practice.

When I see wonky stats/class combos/whatever, I've learned to say to myself "Idiot or genius?" Lotta different ways to do things.

But, the individual has to be willing to pay for a Reincarnation, so Turbine will make money (or that individual pulls & makes haste with the item on a plan).

The punchline is "...but, madam, we've already established what you are. We're simply haggling over the price."

[Angelus_dead]

If I roll an arcane, I'm going to dump everything into str and con and master's touch/great axe myself up to where spells start sticking well, then put on my 'real' stats.

Why in the world would you do that?

What's the advantage?

[Kistilan]

When I see wonky stats/class combos/whatever, I've learned to say to myself "Idiot or genius?" Lotta different ways to do things.



The punchline is "...but, madam, we've already established what you are. We're simply haggling over the price."

LMAO!!! I forget what that's from, but I do recall thinking that's one of the wittiest things I've read in awhile.

Well the wonky stats were Mhykke's rogue -- all strength & con. Might as well have been a barbarian.

[maddmatt70]

I have to say the OP most definitely sounds like a negative nancy. I agree that reincarnation needs some tweaks. This post though coupled with the FTP vs. VIP posts with how $15, which is less then two tickets to the movies is such an affront just gets real tiresome. I also have a character with that one bad multi-class level which the only way to fix is to respec so I will either true reincarnate or not, but I am happy to have the option.

[SableShadow]

LMAO!!! I forget what that's from, but I do recall thinking that's one of the wittiest things I've read in awhile.

I think it's Churchill, but I don't have a citation handy.

Well the wonky stats were Mhykke's rogue -- all strength & con. Might as well have been a barbarian.

Not that wonky. The game rewards str/con pretty heavily at the moment.

Why in the world would you do that?

What's the advantage?

Tweaking effectiveness for a level range, particularly soloing effectiveness.

I'm a caster nub, but the first few levels at least blew by much more quickly on the buff tank version of my bard than either my finesse or caster versions. And I've got the option of specing him over to a pure caster version once I get into the high level range, if I want to.

[CrimsonEagle]

This is not a respec, this is basicly a reroll with little incentive.

I'm not really happy with this joke.

[Kistilan]

I think it's Churchill, but I don't have a citation handy.



Not that wonky. The game rewards str/con pretty heavily at the moment.

Tweaking effectiveness for a level range, particularly soloing effectiveness.

I'm a caster nub, but the first few levels at least blew by much more quickly on the buff tank version of my bard than either my finesse or caster versions. And I've got the option of specing him over to a pure caster version once I get into the high level range, if I want to.

You're right, it's Churchill. *L* That guy was awesome.

Well, I am not disagreeing with the build design being rewarded for that, but.... the challenge was to be a level 1 rogue & do Cannith Crystal Elite Solo. So, a little metagaming and stats like...

18 Str, 16 Dex, 16 Con 8 Int 8 Wis 8 Cha -- not really the best type of rogue stats. And then to top it off for a free feat you chose Armor Profiency: Heavy and slap some Fullplate on. I can't recall if that's *exactly* the build, but it was wonky -- I was thinking a build that "Most Players" would play -- not someone that wanted to chump someone in a M:TG Pro Tourney.

And yeah, to second that -- Warforged Wiz, 14 Int (First 4 levels of casting will take me to 8th before needing a Lesser Reincarnation). 16 Str, 14 Dex, Mithril Body, 16 Con, 8 Wis, 6 Cha. (Guessing that'd be about right) -- not exactly the numbers you'd use but close. Take Additional Feat: Shield Proficiency & go to town as a fighter with buffs. At level 9 Reincarnate, drop the bs feats & shift the stats to the appropriate area. Best of all, if you found a +2 tome at level 9 or 10 for Int... suddenly you get those skill points after level 7. A little extra Balance, UMD, Jump or Tumble never did hurt.

[Mhykke]

Well the wonky stats were Mhykke's rogue -- all strength & con. Might as well have been a barbarian.

Roll your eyes back into the forward position.

Yeah, a str based rogue is reeeaaal "wonky" and strange. I mean, who the heck has heard of a str based rogue? Crazy! Next we'll be hearing about "battleclerics" and twf'ing barbarians! Madness!

18 Str, 16 Dex, 16 Con 8 Int 8 Wis 8 Cha -- not really the best type of rogue stats. And then to top it off for a free feat you chose Armor Profiency: Heavy and slap some Fullplate on. I can't recall if that's *exactly* the build, but it was wonky -- I was thinking a build that "Most Players" would play -- not someone that wanted to chump someone in a M:TG Pro Tourney.

And for your info, while I don't remember the exact stats, I know I didn't have any full plate on that rogue. In fact, I made the challenge harder on myself than what you and bran wanted. You both just wanted a level 1 rogue do crystal elite. Well, someone could run a few of those quests to pick up some items to improve his/her character to run crystal elite. I did not. All I did was create a character, and run nothing except that quest on normal and hard to open up elite. I made it harder on myself than you and bran asked for, by not running anything to equip my character. And again, I had absolutely no full plate on that guy. Seriously, why make up stuff when you have zero clue?

[Kistilan]

Roll your eyes back into the forward position.

Yeah, a str based rogue is reeeaaal "wonky" and strange. I mean, who the heck has heard of a str based rogue? Crazy! Next we'll be hearing about "battleclerics" and twf'ing barbarians! Madness!



And for your info, while I don't remember the exact stats, I know I didn't have any full plate on that rogue. In fact, I made the challenge harder on myself than what you and bran wanted. You both just wanted a level 1 rogue do crystal elite. Well, someone could run a few of those quests to pick up some items to improve his/her character to run crystal elite. I did not. All I did was create a character, and run nothing except that quest on normal and hard to open up elite. I made it harder on myself than you and bran asked for, by not running anything to equip my character. And again, I had absolutely no full plate on that guy. Seriously, why make up stuff when you have zero clue?

I said I wasn't sure what you had, but that could have been a potential using FP.

It's wonky to max out the strength if you minimize the Int. I'm guessing you did a non-skill rogue. I should have been more specific and said to make a skill & charisma rogue or a well-rounded rogue. Anyway, I was only using your build as an example of how it would be easy to use the Lesser Reincarnation to floor through low-level content as Brenna pointed out. I am not criticizing you as a person or player -- well-played.

[Mhykke]

I said I wasn't sure what you had, but that could have been a potential using FP.

It's wonky to max out the strength if you minimize the Int. I'm guessing you did a non-skill rogue. I should have been more specific and said to make a skill & charisma rogue or a well-rounded rogue. Anyway, I was only using your build as an example of how it would be easy to use the Lesser Reincarnation to floor through low-level content as Brenna pointed out. I am not criticizing you as a person or player -- well-played.

Well while we're talking about "most players" or "well rounded rogues", would "most players" run cannith crystal on normal, hard, and elite, by themselves, without running any other quests at all, and without leveling up, getting any other equipment, or taking any enhancements? So you want to use "most players" as an example, but then choose something that "most players" wouldn't do....

[Kistilan]

Well while we're talking about "most players" or "well rounded rogues", would "most players" run cannith crystal on normal, hard, and elite, by themselves, without running any other quests at all, and without leveling up, getting any other equipment, or taking any enhancements? So you want to use "most players" as an example, but then choose something that "most players" wouldn't do....

Well I viewed you as Special.

PS: I think I was trying to quantify my experience with the Cannith Crystal on elite -- and a 12 str 16 dex 10 con 14 Int 14 wis 12 cha character wasn't cutting it.

[BlackRage]

Here's what gets me - why are so many of your posts blanket assertions and more along the guise of a forum bully: "false"; "you're wrong"; "you do not understand"; "you need to be corrected"; "here is your faulty logic". There is a way to use tact and a deft touch to assert a position without defaulting to harsh, attacking opinions. To me, these bull in a chinashop posts of yours do nothing but demonstrate an attempt by you to show-off your forum posting prowess and a seeming constant need to demonstrate some infallible sense of logic and understanding all your lesser forumites seem to lack in your world.

He is a forum bully, but he is in this instance actually right

It's wonky to max out the strength if you minimize the Int. I'm guessing you did a non-skill rogue.

Ever actually played a Rogue? You do know you can get every trap with 08INT?

This is not a respec, this is basicly a reroll with little incentive.
I'm not really happy with this joke.

QFT - I do not even find the joke funny

[Kistilan]

Ever actually played a Rogue? You do know you can get every trap with 08INT?

Yes.

Most of my rogues are 14-16 builds but my acrobat is a 12 Int. I tend to utilize my skill points and don't trade a few for extra strength or constitution. I also stop at level 10 or earlier & use a +2 Int Tome at 1750 favor.

I've quite a few rogues or blended rogues. Where you worry about getting every trap, I worry about: Assassinate (My Assassin/Kensai), as well as UMD, Balance, Tumble, Hide/Move Silently, Search, Bluff, Haggle, Search, Disable, Oplen Lock, etc. I enjoy heavy skill builds and tend to be useful in odd situations.

I don't disagree a cutter could have a low int, but he won't be a jack of all trades -- he'll master just one (or two -- maybe three).

[bobbryan2]

I don't disagree a cutter could have a low int, but he won't be a jack of all trades -- he'll master just one (or two -- maybe three).

Or 7. Or 8.