So module 1 has respec...

[BlackSteel]

What you are saying is : "It removes all sense of accomplishment when I can whip out a credit card to unlock stuff"

in order to True Rez you have to hit lvl 20 first, then lvl 20 again, for 3 complete 1-20 journeys on a single character. credit card isnt going to play the game for you.

[Impaqt]

I too would like to see an option that alows us to modify our level makeup without starting over with a steeper XP Curve...

I plan on providing feedback to that regard after we actually see this stuff in action.

It just going to the preview server now. Look at what we got accomplished with the BAB System changes even after it went live! The devs do listen.

[Hafeal]

Well, it is pretty much everything the player base has been calling for - 32 pt builds in the Store and respec options. All there, check.

I am curious as to the pricing on much of this ... but I will bet dollars to donuts at least 595 and up. And I further wager that many VIPs who weren't spending their points now have an incentive to do so. People will do it just to get the 2 extra points.

[Impaqt]

Well, it is pretty much everything the player base has been calling for - 32 pt builds in the Store and respec options. All there, check.

I am curious as to the pricing on much of this ... but I will bet dollars to donuts at least 595 and up. And I further wager that many VIPs who weren't spending their points now have an incentive to do so. People will do it just to get the 2 extra points.

True doesnt really appeal to me at all... 2 extra points is hardly noticeable. and who knows what the xp progression is gonna be? Hopefully not too much more than current, but sheesh, we need 1.9 Million XP as it is to cap.... the high end grind for XP is getting rather monotonous with the current progression.

[Angelus_dead]

Well, it is pretty much everything the player base has been calling for - 32 pt builds in the Store and respec options. All there, check.

False.

Much of the reason to desire a respec is so you can avoid having to reroll. But for very many characters, respec by this system will be practically identical to rerolling. It is undesirable for the cost to change a fairly minor thing to be the same as to change totally everything.

[Nahual]

Not sure how you would do it though. Seems the only way to respect is like this, becaues if you want to change that 1 level of rogue, but it was the first level you gained youd really have to go back to lvl 0 to change it.

What if it was your lvl 4, then you'd have to go back all the way to lvl 3 to change it.
Dont think there would be a easy way to just take off that one level, without taking all of the other ones.

[Hafeal]

False.

Much of the reason to desire a respec is so you can avoid having to reroll. But for very many characters, respec by this system will be practically identical to rerolling. It is undesirable for the cost to change a fairly minor thing to be the same as to change totally everything.

Hmmm ... "Respec" is a widely discussed phrase with no consistent meaning. In fact I started a thread some time ago just to define what it meant to different players. I never believed a respec to include changing alignments, gender or race - but Turbine has allowed it. I never included a respec to include modifying classes already taken, but they give that too. The only aspect to respec I have ever felt was missing was skills - and they have given that.

It seems to me, Turbine has been pretty generous with what they are allowing. If they allow "easy" button class changes without a re-leveling, I think it would be a spur for abuse on multi-classing and how it is done. I don't see this set-up as hurting "many" characters. Characters who were gimped or who took a splash have either re-rolled or learned to live with their decision. And if they have lived with it to level 16+, I guess maybe they are not so gimped? And, if they are just desirous of making a change - they can, and keep their stuff.

As for the time to re-level, isn't that why we play? The game is fun &^%dammit.

[SableShadow]

Dont think there would be a easy way to just take off that one level, without taking all of the other ones.

Seems like (since none of us has seen it yet) the mechanic resets you, then walks you through your levels one at a time anyway.

Just offer a 'swap this class/level' token at the start of the process via a Fred-like menu before you do it. Slap a timer on the process (a month?) as you do in the current feat respec system.

As for the time to re-level, isn't that why we play? The game is fun &^%dammit.

Thing is, what's here is more a power gamer widget (cap 20, get 'special feat', relevel at an xp penalty) than a 'fix a level' tool. I don't think you want to lump those together, because those are not the same audience.

Without having to rehash the whole series of respec threads, I think the game needs a widget similar to the current feat respec system that lets you do a tweak on something you wouldn't run to the cap then rerun.

[Kistilan]

I don't want a 34 point build. I don't want to lose my tomes. I don't even want to change my stats. I want to drop 1 class level.

You can always reroll. (I think this option was alluded to, but I wanted to put away any doubt).

Although... since you love your guy and don't want to lose his work, the term True Reincarnation seems to fix your issue better.

[Kistilan]

Without having to rehash the whole series of respec threads, I think the game needs a widget similar to the current feat respec system that lets you do a tweak on something you wouldn't run to the cap then rerun.

I don't think that widget is going to be offered.

They came, they saw, they evaluated. They decided the empty harbor was not in their best interests.

I'm happy to see most of how this panned out -- the respec thread wars wasn't a waste of time.

[Borror0]

What you are saying is : "It removes all sense of accomplishment when I can whip out a credit card to unlock stuff"

But what you really mean, as far as I can tell, is: "It makes me annoyed that other people can whip out a credit card to unlock stuff"

No, he meant the first one.

Whether it's really a problem for the achievement that 1750 favor is to remain "difficult" is another question, however.

Much of the reason to desire a respec is so you can avoid having to reroll. But for very many characters, respec by this system will be practically identical to rerolling. It is undesirable for the cost to change a fairly minor thing to be the same as to change totally everything.

This.

"Respec" is a widely discussed phrase with no consistent meaning. In fact I started a thread some time ago just to define what it meant to different players.

That is false. You started a thread to determinate what people meant by "full respec".

What is a respec and the reason as to why people want to respec never were the topic of discussion.

That is, no one ever questioned that the fact that, if one desires a respec, it is to avoid rerolling. After all, there is no other reason to desire that. As Angelus_dead pointed out, to a lot of characters, this is no different than rerolling that should be a problem when changing a minor thing.

[Hafeal]

That is false. You started a thread to determinate what people meant by "full respec".

What is a respec and the reason as to why people want to respec never were the topic of discussion.

Ah, yes, the honey was too much for the bee to resist.

Asking people what other players consider a "full respec" to be by nature of the very question IS addressing the question "What is a respec[?]" As you were 1st to post in the thread, you might want to re-visit it. http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=168894

That is, no one ever questioned that the fact that, if one desires a respec, it is to avoid rerolling. After all, there is no other reason to desire that. As Angelus_dead pointed out, to a lot of characters, this is no different than rerolling that should be a problem when changing a minor thing.

I think the reason to ask the question, as I had, is for the very nature of the extent people want the ability to make changes with little consequence. As I asserted then, and as I assert now, Turbine is allowing a greater changes than I would were I DM. As it is, if you want to change your classes and "erase" time - your DM has determined there is a price to be paid.

I guess I am not convinced that there are "large" numbers of people who took a "mistake" class and continued to play that character to cap and now want to change. I have acknowledged in the past if someone went to the sorc trainer instead of the wizard trainer and somehow managed to finish raising up before realizing it - there should be a remedy; but perhaps through contacting an in-game DM. I am not of the mind to make it easy for people to drop classes easily because the flavor-of the-month build now uses a monk splash instead of a rogue and they want to use a short-cut to modify their existing character v. creating a new one.

[Quikster]

No, he meant the first one.

Whether it's really a problem for the achievement that 1750 favor is to remain "difficult" is another question, however.

This.

That is false. You started a thread to determinate what people meant by "full respec".

What is a respec and the reason as to why people want to respec never were the topic of discussion.

That is, no one ever questioned that the fact that, if one desires a respec, it is to avoid rerolling. After all, there is no other reason to desire that. As Angelus_dead pointed out, to a lot of characters, this is no different than rerolling that should be a problem when changing a minor thing.

Personally, I dont think switching out a level is a minor thing. Especially if we start talking about changing alignments to do it. I think the mechanism as presented seems fair. Obviously we will have to wait and see how some of it is implemented in game, but on the whole, I like the idea of changing a class/splash costing someone. IMO it should be a significant cost to discourage abuse.

[Kistilan]

Ah, yes, the honey was too much for the bee to resist.

Asking people what other players consider a "full respec" to be by nature of the very question IS addressing the question "What is a respec[?]" As you were 1st to post in the thread, you might want to re-visit it. http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=168894



I think the reason to ask the question, as I had, is for the very nature of the extent people want the ability to make changes with little consequence. As I asserted then, and as I assert now, Turbine is allowing a greater changes than I would were I DM. As it is, if you want to change your classes and "erase" time - your DM has determined there is a price to be paid.

I guess I am not convinced that there are "large" numbers of people who took a "mistake" class and continued to play that character to cap and now want to change. I have acknowledged in the past if someone went to the sorc trainer instead of the wizard trainer and somehow managed to finish raising up before realizing it - there should be a remedy; but perhaps through contacting an in-game DM. I am not of the mind to make it easy for people to drop classes easily because the flavor-of the-month build now uses a monk splash instead of a rogue and they want to use a short-cut to modify their existing character v. creating a new one.

/qft

And Awesome. A Foot or A Mile. Turbine gave a foot. I applaud them on what they did do to appease "the masses." I hope they can appreciate the many things like skills that can now be fixed.

Have no fear, your Intimitank can now be effective! And your Bluff can now be removed! And if you don't want Swim, you can get rid of that too!

Easily over half of the arguments have been corrected by all of the Reincarnation options, at a reasonable price, and at a reasonable limit.

PS: What Is Respec & Why Do People Want It was heavily debated in That Which Has No Life. He knows better.

PPS: When did that thing get a lock!?! I must have been extended afk... The Ultimate Necro has been taken away. I had a Dream... and now that Dream is gone from me.

[Mhykke]

Well, it is pretty much everything the player base has been calling for - 32 pt builds in the Store and respec options. All there, check.

The player base was calling for those that respec to get +2 build points every time they do (up to 2 times) and an ability to keep feats from past lives from different classes?

Funny, I don't remember 1 single person asking for those things.

My question is why they added in all this extra stuff, which makes characters even more powerful, which in turn they had to add in additional obstacles (going all the way to 20 for example).

[Borror0]

Asking people what other players consider a "full respec" to be by nature of the very question IS addressing the question "What is a respec[?]"

Technically, yes, but as I pointed out the definition of respec what not under debate.

The debate was uniquely about how the adjective "full" modifies the "respec" noun rather than about what "respec", itself, means.

I guess I am not convinced that there are "large" numbers of people who took a "mistake" class and continued to play that character to cap and now want to change.

It seems you do not understand the position you're arguing against.

Here are a few corrections in your above statement:

• It's not only about class but also about alignment.
• Changing all class levels is not the same as changing one class level.
• The assumption that "[one] continued to play that character to cap" does not make sense to assume.
• It is dubious to label "a mistake" something that was a judicious choice before the game's rules were changed.

As it is, if you want to change your classes and "erase" time - your DM has determined there is a price to be paid.

That DM would be enforcing an imbecile grind on his players. Hardly a good DM.

As for the time to re-level, isn't that why we play? The game is fun &^%dammit.

I love to roll new alts but reexploring the game with the same character multiple times is not all that interesting. Even more so if I could be playing with buddies at higher levels. Additionally, there are times where I can be fed up of playing low levels and would rather play high levels.

Forcing a player through a process he has no interest into at the moment to adapt to design changes is not necessarily what I would call conductive of fun gameplay.

[Kistilan]

The player base was calling for those that respec to get +2 build points every time they do (up to 2 times) and an ability to keep feats from past lives from different classes?

Funny, I don't remember 1 single person asking for those things.

My question is why they added in all this extra stuff, which makes characters even more powerful, which in turn they had to add in additional obstacles (going all the way to 20 for example).

They want you playing longer. I don't think you'll get them to SAY that, but that's what they want.

It has the things the player base was asking for. It has some extras to help extend the cost to level 20 and reroll (while achieving quite a few of the things requested by the player base that wanted respecs).

[Mhykke]

They want you playing longer. I don't think you'll get them to SAY that, but that's what they want.

It has the things the player base was asking for. It has some extras to help extend the cost to level 20 and reroll (while achieving quite a few of the things requested by the player base that wanted respecs).

And they're 2 separate issues. Why bundle them together? Some people don't want more powerful characters, some do.

Why not add those features in separately. For anyone that wants to get +4 build points by respeccing twice, the ability would be there. For others, that simply want to change something on their characters without getting more build points or feats from other classes, the ability would be there as well.

[Angelus_dead]

Personally, I dont think switching out a level is a minor thing.

Look:
1. Joe wants to go from Fig17/Rog3 to Fig18/Rog2, because there was no such thing as specialty enhancements back when he took Rog3.

2. Ted wants to go from Fig10/Rog10 to Ran19/Monk1, and also upgrade from 28 to 34 build points.

Why should both of those changes have the same cost? Isn't one of them "minor" compared to the other?

[manfredshw]

I just can't give up my tomes.
How many days I had spent on these tomes.
I need to relevel and re-grind.

Dreaming darkness......